Im not sure how you can justify NOT trading Mccarron at this point

[OrlandoBengal]

(11-21-2016, 01:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If macaroni gets traded, the most we will get is a 3rd rounder. A 4th wouldn't surprise me. That's probably why Mac is still a Bengal. Fans have overestimated his value. People keep talking about his "good tape" but I'm not sure he showed much last year. He was managed very carefully in his starts, averaged 160 yards, took no deep shots, and looked oblivious in the pocket.

The 160 is an unfair number.  If you start with the Pittsburgh game, when he played meaningful minutes, he averaged 209 per game.  Not setting the world on fire, but much better than 160.  His rating during the regular season was almost 100 and he did have a couple good drives in that terrible weather of the playoff game.

If Brock Osweiler could get $72 million, McCarron on a rookie deal could have garnered a second round pick.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-21-2016, 01:37 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: The 160 is an unfair number.  If you start with the Pittsburgh game, when he played meaningful minutes, he averaged 209 per game.  Not setting the world on fire, but much better than 160.  His rating during the regular season was almost 100 and he did have a couple good drives in that terrible weather of the playoff game.

If Brock Osweiler could get $72 million, McCarron on a rookie deal could have garnered a second round pick.

Osweiler started in Manning's place and looked good.

You're comparing Osweilers play this year to McCarron last year. I think there's something to be said about guys being in the same system for years and playing well. If you put McCarron on a new team in a new system, I think you'll see the same results as you are for Osweiler.

[Benton]

We've had several picks collecting dust on the bench. That's part of the problem we're in now: drafting guys and not playing/developing them.

So if we trade AJ for a second and draft another corner, who is he replacing? If we draft a WR, does that mean we're abandoning the young guys again? Draft another LB who can keep Vigil company? Take three linemen in the first two rounds and have them play a couple downs?

I understand the frustration, but trading AJ for more picks is like trading your spare tire for lug nuts when you're car is out of gas. It's not going to hurt anything, but it's not going to address the problem, either. We probably aren't going to address it (the need for playing younger guys and the need for better coaching) this season, but I'd rather keep AJ on the roster in case we do and make some forward progress next season.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-21-2016, 01:46 PM)Benton Wrote: We've had several picks collecting dust on the bench. That's part of the problem we're in now: drafting guys and not playing/developing them.

So if we trade AJ for a second and draft another corner, who is he replacing? If we draft a WR, does that mean we're abandoning the young guys again? Draft another LB who can keep Vigil company? Take three linemen in the first two rounds and have them play a couple downs?

I understand the frustration, but trading AJ for more picks is like trading your spare tire for lug nuts when you're car is out of gas. It's not going to hurt anything, but it's not going to address the problem, either. We probably aren't going to address it (the need for playing younger guys and the need for better coaching) this season, but I'd rather keep AJ on the roster in case we do and make some forward progress next season.

That's where a coaching change comes in. We're rebuilding and we need to hire a HC who will play youth.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-21-2016, 01:37 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: The 160 is an unfair number.  If you start with the Pittsburgh game, when he played meaningful minutes, he averaged 209 per game.  Not setting the world on fire, but much better than 160.  His rating during the regular season was almost 100 and he did have a couple good drives in that terrible weather of the playoff game.

If Brock Osweiler could get $72 million, McCarron on a rookie deal could have garnered a second round pick.

I don't include the Pittsburgh game because they had no time nor tape to prepare for him. That's why I only include his 4 starts. In those starts he...

averaged 191 yards (I was mistaken on the 160 number)
an abysmal 6.16 yards per attempt
89.6 passer rating (helped greatly by his 5 to 1 TD/INT ratio
4 fumbles
9.9 yards per completion

Keep in mind that he posted these numbers against some of the worst teams and pass defenses in the league.

The stats reflect what I've been saying. He was heavily managed, threw mostly short stuff, and did not put anything on tape that would lead one to believe he can lead a prolific passing attack. He looked like a backup.

[yellowxdiscipline]

This was another missed opportunity by the management. His highest value was at its height this offseason, now with Romo and a few others looking to hit free agency. AJ's value will plummet.

[Marlon23]

After another frustrating loss by the Bengals, many are searching for answers about what has happened in Cincinnati.

Here are five thoughts on the state of southwest Ohio’s NFL team:

1. The simplest explanation for the Bengals’ three-game non-winning streak (they tied the Redskins before losing to the Giants and the Bills) is Andy Dalton hasn’t played well enough.

Obviously plenty of factors have led to the team falling short, but one of the luxuries of having a franchise quarterback is he is supposed to cover up some of a team’s deficiencies. Dalton hasn’t done that the past three weeks as the offense has sputtered and his QB rating has plummeted.

READ MORE: 6 things to know from Week 11 in the NFL

2. So maybe we’re back to concluding Dalton isn’t a true franchise quarterback.

That’s not the end of the world if the rest of the roster is great. While it was last year, it’s not now. The best hope for this season was always to spend half a year transitioning at a handful of positions where new players are starting, but that hasn’t happened yet. And at least a couple of positions have seen returnees regress. Now with the injuries to A.J. Green and Giovani Bernard, it’s probably too late.

READ MORE: Mike Nugent faces the music after another rough day

3. The good news is this doesn’t require a complete teardown.

There are plenty of good pieces worth keeping around for the future. Let’s save the Dalton-A.J. McCarron debate for another day, but Cincinnati has a star and a promising youngster at receiver, two good running backs, and a Pro Bowl tight end. There’s also still a loaded defensive line, which is arguably the best place to be loaded on either side of the ball.

4. The bad — maybe worst — news is the weakest spot on the team is the hardest one to rebuild quickly, and that’s the offensive line.

That once-proud unit looks like it will need a complete overhaul, especially with stalwart Andrew Whitworth getting up there in years.

5. And what about Marvin Lewis?

Certainly people will want to reopen the coaching change conversation, but I still think the roster is a much bigger issue. Of course, how they finish the season will likely have an effect.



Just don't know if Andy has it or not. If he did would we have not made it to the playoffs and won by now? Just saying.. We have so much talent and yet something is a miss.

[motoarch]

Bears are probably ready to move on from cutler. Wonder what we could get from them?

[OrlandoBengal]

(11-21-2016, 02:04 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't include the Pittsburgh game because they had no time nor tape to prepare for him. That's why I only include his 4 starts. In those starts he...

averaged 191 yards (I was mistaken on the 160 number)
an abysmal 6.16 yards per attempt
89.6 passer rating (helped greatly by his 5 to 1 TD/INT ratio
4 fumbles
9.9 yards per completion

Keep in mind that he posted these numbers against some of the worst teams and pass defenses in the league.

The stats reflect what I've been saying. He was heavily managed, threw mostly short stuff, and did not put anything on tape that would lead one to believe he can lead a prolific passing attack. He looked like a backup.

The counter to your Pittsburgh argument is that he also did not get first team reps that week and came off the bench completely cold against the team's arch rival.  Also, one of his four starts was against Denver who rode their defense all the way to a Super Bowl.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-21-2016, 12:29 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The guy isn't going to be starting for us (face it, he's not) and he could possibly return a first or second round draft pick. This team needs all the talent it can get.

If the Bengals don't try to trade him then they are fools.

They could probably get a 5th...best case, 4th round pick for him.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-21-2016, 02:17 PM)motoarch Wrote: Bears are probably ready to move on from cutler.  Wonder what we could get from them?

I'd guess a 3rd or 4th Round pick.

They'll likely draft Watson, Kaaya, or some other QB in the 1st Round.

[OrlandoBengal]

(11-21-2016, 01:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Osweiler started in Manning's place and looked good.

You're comparing Osweilers play this year to McCarron last year. I think there's something to be said about guys being in the same system for years and playing well. If you put McCarron on a new team in a new system, I think you'll see the same results as you are for Osweiler.

No, I am comparing it to last year.  In eight starts he put up 1900 yards, 10 touchdowns, six interceptions, and had a rating of 86.

[snowy]

Important to keep in mind the trading period doesn't start until March 9, 2017. A lot can happen between now and then.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-21-2016, 02:21 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: The counter to your Pittsburgh argument is that he also did not get first team reps that week and came off the bench completely cold against the team's arch rival.  Also, one of his four starts was against Denver who rode their defense all the way to a Super Bowl.

The counter to your counter is that both McCarron and Pittsburgh were prepared for their 2nd match and we all saw what happened.

Against Denver, Mac went for 200 yards on 35 attempts (5.71 yards per attempt), with 1 TD and one very crucial turnover. Not sure what that proves. His other matchups were against SF, Baltimore and Pitt. Hardly a murderer's row of defenses, yet he put up similar inefficient numbers.

[XenoMorph]

(11-21-2016, 12:29 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The guy isn't going to be starting for us (face it, he's not) and he could possibly return a first or second round draft pick. This team needs all the talent it can get.

If the Bengals don't try to trade him then they are fools.

Because any fan can completely justify it like this..

THE TRADE DEADLINE is OVER for 2016...


Show me any newline or article where a team was gonna offer us a 2nd or a 1st round pick for mccaron?

[*bfine32*]

OP misspelled "starting" in the thread title.......


OK, that was for all the AJM haters (you know who you are).

We don't trade AJM unless someone gives us a second or better.

[WeezyBengal]

(11-21-2016, 01:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Osweiler started in Manning's place and looked good.

You're comparing Osweilers play this year to McCarron last year. I think there's something to be said about guys being in the same system for years and playing well. If you put McCarron on a new team in a new system, I think you'll see the same results as you are for Osweiler.

Osweiler did not look good starting in Mannings place. He was mediocre...if that. 

[motoarch]

(11-21-2016, 02:54 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Osweiler did not look good starting in Mannings place. He was mediocre...if that. 

Yup

[WeezyBengal]

(11-21-2016, 02:04 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't include the Pittsburgh game because they had no time nor tape to prepare for him. That's why I only include his 4 starts. In those starts he...

averaged 191 yards (I was mistaken on the 160 number)
an abysmal 6.16 yards per attempt
89.6 passer rating (helped greatly by his 5 to 1 TD/INT ratio
4 fumbles
9.9 yards per completion

Keep in mind that he posted these numbers against some of the worst teams and pass defenses in the league.

The stats reflect what I've been saying. He was heavily managed, threw mostly short stuff, and did not put anything on tape that would lead one to believe he can lead a prolific passing attack. He looked like a backup.

So you are picking and choosing which games to include in his stats? Sorry, but it doesnt work like that. 

[barkerja]

We will trade him, it's only a matter of when (and that when being timing that is in our best interest). That time may be now, or it may be next season, but it will happen.