Team Needs for Next Season

[Atomic Orange]

If Mike Nugent would do his job we could easily be 6-4 right now. (Skins, Giants, Bills).

just sayin that doesn't scream complete rebuild.

[Derrick]

(11-21-2016, 04:28 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I also have zero confidence in Fisher. Look at all the other guys who were there to step up and didn't. Og just doesn't have it at all. Maybe a new OL coach will be able to turn him into a real starter, but if you go by what we are seeing on the field Og is bust and needs to be replaced. And given that Fisher can't take any time away from Og I don't see how we can think he's any better.

We need to draft two OTs, one for each side.

I cannot trust this franchise to draft OTs anymore after Og and Fish.

[J24]

#1 interior pass rusher
#2 Defensive End
#3Edge Rusher
#4 coverage LB
#5 flanker WR
#6 Center
#7 RT

[SunsetBengal]

(11-21-2016, 01:52 PM)Big Boss Wrote: I actually think our current secondary and LB corps would be somewhat serviceable if our defensive line was capable of generating pressure.

Personnel in the secondary isn't the problem, the current players that we have looked like bosses under Vance Joseph.  The DL is doing just fine, they just aren't getting those "coverage sacks" that they did when Joseph was in charge of the unit.

(11-21-2016, 05:26 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: If Mike Nugent would do his job we could easily be 6-4 right now. (Skins, Giants, Bills).

just sayin that doesn't scream complete rebuild.

Yes, kicker makes a difference.  But, this is a team that was predicted to compete for Super Bowl by many.  Takes much more than a sketchy kicker to end up at 3-6-1.  Just sayin'

[ah5]

First off you shouldn't address needs so much in the draft... You should draft best available.

1) LB/DE, I have a feeling this pick is going to go to jabril peppers which I wouldn't mind a first round S. Allen and Garrette most likely wont be there. Cunningham will be but he would be over drafted in the top 5.

2) C, Some decent centers are probably going to come off the board early in the second. x fingers.

3) WR, we need a deep threat outside of green. Tyler Boyd doesn't scare anyone deep.

4) OG, hopefully we keep Zeitler. He has had the shitty job of being stuffed between 2 baddies all year, probably good for us as his stock has dropped.

5) Kicker nuff said

This said I think it would be hard to pass up on Fournette if he was there, let Hill walk.

[Gohards]

(11-21-2016, 05:26 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: If Mike Nugent would do his job we could easily be 6-4 right now. (Skins, Giants, Bills).

just sayin that doesn't scream complete rebuild.

Youre joking right? They are 24th in Yds allowed, 28th in rushing yds allowed, and 24th in scoring, averaging less than 20 pts a game.

On defense especially, we need a complete rebuild.

We also have key players coming up that are gonna want big money (Dre, Hill, ect)

[*Go Cards*]

(11-21-2016, 05:26 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: If Mike Nugent would do his job we could easily be 6-4 right now. (Skins, Giants, Bills).

just sayin that doesn't scream complete rebuild.

We all knew he was going to cost us a game this season before the season even started. 

But got to place the over and under at costing Bengals games at 5 before it is over. 

[*Go Cards*]

Agree with others that the trenches is where it begins and need to draft there first.

Think we will need seek FA to help as well.

[TKUHL]

What still have Hardison, what happen to him?

[phil413]

1. Marvin gone.
Though none of us really know how much control he has of this team, does it matter at this point? Under his reign the last few drafts haven't been very good. Even if he was behind taking talented players that would have turned out better, it was his staff that didn't get the results. Mikey built his way for a long time and Mediocre Marvin is the result. Many of us thought they were one or two players away from going to a Super Bowl, but they never even won a playoff game. They really need to usher in a new era with Katie and Tobin picking up the slack.


2. One head football coach picking his own staff.
Even if every one of us fans say that will NEVER happen, why are we so sure? Sure Mike wanted to win one for Paul his way, and I can't believe I'm addressing a family thing that we may be overthinking, but he needs to let Katie pick a good head football guy, pay him well and build his staff. Shackling Vance Joseph or Paul Guenther to most of the same staff will make them another Marvin. Mike should help Katie work on a short list and let her pick one.

3. Re-sign Whitworth and maybe Kirkpatrick if you aren't overpaying.

Pretty straight forward. We harp on how underappreciated Whitworth is, and it never gets less true. Pay him until he doesn't want to play football anymore. He's the best player on a weak unit and a team that needs stability and leadership. They're likely to lose Zeitler, so you have to at least consider sliding Whit to tackle IF it helps extend his career and lets the kids compete in their natural position. They're that far behind as a unit. Dre is playing pretty well in his contract year on a team that isn't giving him much pressure help. They may need to buck the trend of low guaranteed money in order to lower his base number as they need stability just as much at corner. I wouldn't sign him at all costs though, because Jackson and Shaw aren't bad alternatives if you'd just spend the money on a quality DE.

4 Sign two quality FA starters like RT Ricky Wagner and DE Jabaal Sheard

Dunlap and Atkins are being squandered without help at DE. The projects haven't worked. Clarke may be a quality backup and more, but lets not bank on the more anymore. Wagner makes too much sense to give the OL group what it needs. Fisher/Boling/Westerman/Whitworth/Wagner or Whitworth/Fisher/Westerman/Boling/Wagner wouldn't be a bad lineup PRE-DRAFT.....

5. Get the most out of the draft

Easier said than done, but they should be creative this year. They'll have some good comp picks and may be drafting higher than normal. This is where you let Tobin have some space and deal up or down the draft if need be. I don't like targeting players, but Peppers would be pretty exciting and if you get a steady pass rush going he could be a play maker. With all the mid round picks, you're likely to land an interior OL to compete and maybe replace Bodine. You need a LB somewhere in the top half of the draft as well, even more so if they decide to move on from Burfict. Depending on the coach, I'd consider keeping him and moving Burfict inside.


This team absolutely needs a major change. They don't need to rebuild the roster, but need the right staff in place to lead them.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-21-2016, 10:36 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Coaching: All new staff - Since it looks like we need to do a rebuild, we need a staff that can come in and play young players and more importantly...develop them.

Offense:
RB (Hill is a free agent after next season and Bernard will be coming back from a major injury)
WR - Green tore his hamstring and he is going to be 29 and Lafell was only on a 1 year deal.
Center
RT/LT - I'd retain Whitworth for another year, but they'll have to figure out if CO or Fisher can start.
Guard - Possibly if Zeitler isn't retained.

Defense:
DE - MJ looks done. Hunt isn't a world-beater. They need to get a young DE in there to develop.
DT - Peko is done. Maybe Billings can develop? Maybe some of the other young DT's will?
LB - We could use 2 new LB's here. Maulauga needs replaced. Dansby obviously won't be back. What to do with Burfict? He's out of control. Do we need a guy who flips off fans?
DB - Williams doesn't look like the answer at Safety...but they have much bigger needs. CB - With Kirkpatrick's injury and pending free agency, who knows what they do here? They have Dennard, Jackson, Shaw, and Jones still. We likely have bigger needs.

Special Teams: Kicker

Realistically, you can expect to add 1-2 starters in Year 1 on defense...so this is starting to look like a full rebuild.

I agree with the list for the most part.  Don't forget they also have Hardison at DT coming back in addition to Billings.

I would also draft a stud TE.  So when our OC (assuming they don't make any coaching changes  ) only puts one of them on the field at a time, the other four (Hewitt, Kroft, Uzomah, and rookie draft pick) will at least have enough to play Euchre on the sideline.  Nothing more frustrating than needing a fourth. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-21-2016, 11:16 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think WR is a bigger need than you 2 are realizing.

Green just had a severe tear of his hamstring and he is going to be 29 this summer. He may not be elite again...and even if he is, we need a #2 guy.

Agreed 100%.  I might even go after Terrelle Pryor.  Big, long, fast, on the other side of the field from AJ.

I might be talked out of getting another stud WR if the next ( ) coach would use more than one TE at a time.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-21-2016, 11:50 AM)kevin Wrote: A Top Pick LT.....and a Top Pick LB.......and we need depth across the board which means we can not keep Dalton and McCarron if we get a good trade offer.....LT and LB to start and Peko's age means DT becoming a need.  ...Is Kicker Now A Need ????.......I would think many kickers undrafted to bring in for try outs in 2017.......Fans not happy with Bodine......We could use a star WR to go with Green....but we can not block. That has been the big problem in 2016. We can not run block or pass block and if you can not block, you can not win....We lost Andre Smith and who grabbed him was Zimmer in Minnesota.

2016 is what happens when you lose Nelson, Hall, Jones, Sanu, Smith and many others.  Players expected to step in and step up never did.

I agree with all of your thoughts here, but it a 4-3 defense, the RDE MUST generate pressure from what is the majority of QBs blind side.  That is this team's single greatest weakness.  I blame a lot of the offensive line troubles to scheme and predictability. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-21-2016, 01:44 PM)Millhouse Wrote: A new "GM" in charge of the draft. Honestly, whoever has been the brainchild of the drafts for last few years now needs fired or moved elsewhere and let someone else do it.

I'm not joking, but there are some folks in here that probably wouldnt have done a worse job than what they have.

I disagree.  Duke Tobin, Katie, Troy, and Marv have been outstanding at assembling talent.  However, they keep drafting square pegs and putting them in round holes.  

They draft an enforcer at Safety in Williams, and make him play center field.  Derron Smith is much more adept at the scheme they run.

They draft stud (I think they could be studs) TEs in Eifert, Uzomah, Kroft, and Hewitt (FA, but they're paying him $5 million a year!) and then play almost exclusively 3- WR sets in a game where they can't run the ball of get any protection.  Hue loved the two TE set, and I think would be doing much more than that now if he were here.  

They at least draft their corners early because with this pathetic front four, they have to cover all day long.  

They draft (sign sign as FA) thumper LBs that can't cover a TE.  Nuff said.  Vigil at least appears to be a bit of light dawning on marble head. 

It is the schemes, guys.  They have talented players being wasted.  IMHO, Rex Burkhead should have 50 receptions a season.  He can stay in and block or slip out as an outlet receiver.  He had the fastest short-shuttle in the entire draft the year he came out.  He plays pretty much just special teams. 

[THE PISTONS]

(11-22-2016, 09:58 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I disagree.  Duke Tobin, Katie, Troy, and Marv have been outstanding at assembling talent.  However, they keep drafting square pegs and putting them in round holes.  

They draft an enforcer at Safety in Williams, and make him play center field.  Derron Smith is much more adept at the scheme they run.

They draft stud (I think they could be studs) TEs in Eifert, Uzomah, Kroft, and Hewitt (FA, but they're paying him $5 million a year!) and then play almost exclusively 3- WR sets in a game where they can't run the ball of get any protection.  Hue loved the two TE set, and I think would be doing much more than that now if he were here.  

They at least draft their corners early because with this pathetic front four, they have to cover all day long.  

They draft (sign sign as FA) thumper LBs that can't cover a TE.  Nuff said.  Vigil at least appears to be a bit of light dawning on marble head. 

It is the schemes, guys.  They have talented players being wasted.  IMHO, Rex Burkhead should have 50 receptions a season.  He can stay in and block or slip out as an outlet receiver.  He had the fastest short-shuttle in the entire draft the year he came out.  He plays pretty much just special teams. 

You have great points here.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Top to bottom, this team needs an enema.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-22-2016, 09:58 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I disagree.  Duke Tobin, Katie, Troy, and Marv have been outstanding at assembling talent.  However, they keep drafting square pegs and putting them in round holes.  

They draft an enforcer at Safety in Williams, and make him play center field.  Derron Smith is much more adept at the scheme they run.

They draft stud (I think they could be studs) TEs in Eifert, Uzomah, Kroft, and Hewitt (FA, but they're paying him $5 million a year!) and then play almost exclusively 3- WR sets in a game where they can't run the ball of get any protection.  Hue loved the two TE set, and I think would be doing much more than that now if he were here.  

They at least draft their corners early because with this pathetic front four, they have to cover all day long.  

They draft (sign sign as FA) thumper LBs that can't cover a TE.  Nuff said.  Vigil at least appears to be a bit of light dawning on marble head. 

It is the schemes, guys.  They have talented players being wasted.  IMHO, Rex Burkhead should have 50 receptions a season.  He can stay in and block or slip out as an outlet receiver.  He had the fastest short-shuttle in the entire draft the year he came out.  He plays pretty much just special teams. 

Solid thoughts, so, as most of have maintained, it IS the coaching......

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-22-2016, 12:57 PM)Wyche Wrote: Top to bottom, this team needs an enema.

Exactly

First and foremost we need a complete house cleaning of coaching staff. Then we also need some pretty major moves of players.

In short we need a complete new direction, a total turnover ! A complete new culture

[Millhouse]

(11-22-2016, 09:58 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I disagree.  Duke Tobin, Katie, Troy, and Marv have been outstanding at assembling talent.  However, they keep drafting square pegs and putting them in round holes.  

They draft an enforcer at Safety in Williams, and make him play center field.  Derron Smith is much more adept at the scheme they run.

They draft stud (I think they could be studs) TEs in Eifert, Uzomah, Kroft, and Hewitt (FA, but they're paying him $5 million a year!) and then play almost exclusively 3- WR sets in a game where they can't run the ball of get any protection.  Hue loved the two TE set, and I think would be doing much more than that now if he were here.  

They at least draft their corners early because with this pathetic front four, they have to cover all day long.  

They draft (sign sign as FA) thumper LBs that can't cover a TE.  Nuff said.  Vigil at least appears to be a bit of light dawning on marble head. 

It is the schemes, guys.  They have talented players being wasted.  IMHO, Rex Burkhead should have 50 receptions a season.  He can stay in and block or slip out as an outlet receiver.  He had the fastest short-shuttle in the entire draft the year he came out.  He plays pretty much just special teams. 

Good and valid points, but yet for a team that relies on the draft, they have whiffed on last year's top 2 picks, and a 3rd rounder to boot. Year before they whiffed on Dennard in the first round. Dont know yet on WJ3, but if he ends up like a Dennard, then that is 3 straight years of muffing up the top picks in the draft. 

Yeah for quite a few teams that know how to play free agency these would have been good drafts, taking chances on players like Hunt and Ogbebooti who was already on IR. But for a team like the Bengals though, they have not done a good enough job. 

Outside of Eifert, name me one player in the last 5 drafts that is an actual difference maker? Im not talkin about an average starter or rotation guy, but someone that is a top tier sort of player. Burfict was undrafted but they signed him asap after draft was over. Only other one I might consider is Hill, but that is heavily debatable because he needs good blocking to excel. Also maybe Marvin Jones but he is off to greener pastures.  They simply havent  drafted enough top-tier difference makers that they need to.

That said, I do agree on coaching, and not using players like Rex or Gio for that matter in more optimal situations. 

[*psychdoctor*]

Good thread I think all the coaches must go. Maybe keep Paulie. Hire Josh McDaniels as HC. They need a new kicker of course everything else you said seems to be spot on.

Others May laugh but I also think they need a new uniform.

In terms of order of need I would say kicker two offensive tackles two linebackers the center a defensive tackle that should about do it.