2016 player expectations vs. results

[lone bengal]

2016 player expectations vs. results

The purpose of this thread is to talk about what expectations we had for certain players going into the season vs. their current results on the field. I feel like a ton of players on the 2016 Bengals have either regressed, haven’t met expectations or haven’t gotten any better from the previous season. In many cases some player’s performances this year are the worst possible outcome anyone could have imagined. One of the only players on the roster that I feel like has exceeded expectations/ improved significantly from the previous season is Josh Shaw and even that’s a little bit of a stretch. The most disturbing part of this list is that many of our high draft picks and young players have not improved/ meet expectations.

Ogbuehi – falls into the worst case scenario category. My expectations were that he could at least do an ok job at RT and at worst struggle somewhat early on. I never imagined he would be one of the worst starting tackles in the league.

Fisher – falls into the worst case scenario category. Fisher unlike Oguehi has gone through two whole training camps. My expectations were that Fisher at worst would be a good backup swing tackle for Whit and Ced this season or at best compete for the starting right tackle gig. The fact he’s in year 2 and the coaching staff thinks he’s not a better option than Ogbuehi at RT terrifies me.

Whitworth – My expectations for Whit was that he would show his age this season and regress somewhat. It’s crazy that he’s playing this good at 35 years old, he’s one of the few players who have exceeded my expectations coming into the season.

Darqueze Dennard – falls into the worst case scenario category. Surprisingly I had high expectations for Dennard I though injuries had held him back before and that he would step in and be one of the better slot corners in the league and possibly take Adam Jones spot at the #2 corner spot. He falls into the worst case scenario category because he’s a first round pick in year 4 who has look terrible when he’s on the field , even if he has a good season next year we have to make a judgment on his future contract based on one season of productivity.

George Iloka – One of the things that helped soften the blow of losing Marvin Jones/ Reggie Nelson for me was the fact that we spent money on a young , big and up coming safety that had room to improve. I knew the loss of Nelson would hurt and my expectations were that Iloka would play well and that Williams would struggle not both of them. Not sure if Nelson ‘s good safety play made Iloka look a lot better than he was or that Iloka is more of a box player like Williams and we have no true free safety.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-22-2016, 11:03 PM)lone bengal Wrote: 2016 player expectations vs. results

The purpose of this thread is to talk about what expectations we had for certain players going into the season vs. their current results on the field.  I feel like a ton of players on the 2016 Bengals have either regressed, haven’t met expectations or haven’t gotten any better from the previous season. In many cases some player’s performances this year are the worst possible outcome anyone could have imagined.  One of the only players on the roster that I feel like has exceeded expectations/ improved significantly from the previous season is Josh Shaw and even that’s a little bit of a stretch. The most disturbing part of this list is that many of our high draft picks and young players have not improved/ meet expectations.  

Ogbuehi – falls into the worst case scenario category.  My expectations were that he could at least do an ok job at RT and at worst struggle somewhat early on.  I never imagined he would be one of the worst starting tackles in the league.

Fisher –   falls into the worst case scenario category.  Fisher unlike Oguehi has gone through two whole training camps.  My expectations were that Fisher at worst would be a good backup swing tackle for Whit and Ced this season or at best compete for the starting right tackle gig.  The fact he’s in year 2 and the coaching staff thinks he’s not a better option than Ogbuehi at RT terrifies me.  

Whitworth – My expectations for Whit was that he would show his age this season and regress somewhat. It’s crazy that he’s playing this good at 35 years old, he’s one of the few players who have exceeded my expectations coming into the season.

Darqueze Dennard – falls into the worst case scenario category.  Surprisingly I had high expectations for Dennard I though injuries had held him back before and that he would step in and be one of the better slot corners in the league and possibly take Adam Jones spot at the #2 corner spot.  He falls into the worst case scenario category because he’s a first round pick in year 4 who has look terrible when he’s on the field , even if he has a good season next year we have to make a judgment on his future contract based on one season of productivity.  

George Iloka – One of the things that helped soften the blow of losing Marvin Jones/ Reggie Nelson for me was the fact that we spent money on a young , big and up coming safety that had room to improve.  I knew the loss of Nelson would hurt and my expectations were that Iloka would play well and that Williams would struggle not both of them.  Not sure if Nelson ‘s good safety play made Iloka look a lot better than he was or that Iloka is more of a box player like Williams and we have no true free safety.

re: Our secondary and Linebackers - We're built to stop the run in a passing league. Both of our safeties don't really have pass coverage skills. All of our linebackers except Vigil are big run-stopping thumpers.

[BengalChris]

(11-22-2016, 11:38 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: re: Our secondary and Linebackers - We're built to stop the run in a passing league. Both of our safeties don't really have pass coverage skills. All of our linebackers except Vigil are big run-stopping thumpers.

Vigil has shown exactly nothing. Another overdrafted Marvin project using a pick that should bring a starter to the team in the second year. I know it's still early and he's likely to turn out being a better pick than Hunt was.

[*Go Cards*]

Whit - What was expected, Whit is Whit, ........Grade A

Zeitler - Below par but giving pass per being surrounded by nothing........ Grade C-

Bodine - Slightly better than expected but that is still not good .......Grade D

Ced - worse than expected by a long shot, never even dreamed that he would do this bad ......Grade F-

Boling - worse but willing to give pass per shoulder injury..... Grade D


As a group give the O-line a grade of F+, Thought they would be better than that.

Do like Boyd's potential though.

[fredtoast]

Dansby has been the biggest disappointment to me. He was billed as one of the best coverage LBs in the league and I felt that was on of our biggest weaknesses on defense.

Ogbuehi is a very close second.

[Shake n Blake]

For me it's not even close. Ogbuehi is by far the biggest disappointment. Dude has given up more sacks and pressures than the rest of the line combined...and he's done so as a part time player. He's shaping up to be one of the biggest busts in team history.

Honorable mentions:

Iloka
MJ
Eifert (for missing more games than originally planned)
Pacman
Burfict
The rest of the oline other than Whit

I honestly didn't expect much out of Dansby. He's old.

[2MinutesHate]

(11-23-2016, 12:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dansby has been the biggest disappointment to me.  He was billed as one of the best coverage LBs in the league and I felt that was on of our biggest weaknesses on defense.

Ogbuehi is a very close second.

I agree.  

Father time has caught up with his legs and I see him retiring after this year as I'm sure the Bengals wouldn't resign him, would they? 

It's actually kind of sad to see him in pursuit because you know he's trying but the body won't let him.

[Froob]

(11-22-2016, 11:03 PM)lone bengal Wrote: Whitworth – My expectations for Whit was that he would show his age this season and regress somewhat. It’s crazy that he’s playing this good at 35 years old, he’s one of the few players who have exceeded my expectations coming into the season.

Would have to disagree. Whitworth has had FAR too many penalties this year. On top of that, it's easy to notice he hasn't been as good last year.

[fredtoast]

(11-23-2016, 02:35 PM)Froob Wrote: Would have to disagree. Whitworth has had FAR too many penalties this year.

WTF are you talking about?

Whitworth only has 3 penalties for 30 yards this season.  39 OTs have more penalties than him.

http://www.nflpenalties.com/position/offensive-line/tackle?year=2016

[jonesy84]

(11-23-2016, 03:20 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Whit - What was expected, Whit is Whit, ........Grade  A

Zeitler - Below par but giving pass per being surrounded by nothing........ Grade  C-

Bodine - Slightly better than expected but that is still not good .......Grade D

Ced -  worse than expected by a long shot, never even dreamed that he would do this bad ......Grade F-

Boling - worse but willing to give pass per shoulder injury..... Grade D


As a group give the O-line a grade of F+, Thought they would be better than that.

Do like Boyd's potential though.

LOL, the - and the + after the Fs just made me almost spit the coffee I was drinking out of my nose  LOL  That's funny    Also, I think you were a tad generous on the D grade for Bodine.  I think he's close to an F+, IMO

[grampahol]

I'd give Zietler a break. He has Bodine to his left and CO to his right. Under those circumstances there's no way for him to even appear to look decent. With top players on either side, much less both sides he would be a completely different player. He's in a no win situation.
Something in the overall scheme is completely wrong. None of the position groups are playing complimentary football . It's as if all of the coaches are coaching completely different teams, not one team . 
When so many coaches left last year they were replaced by guys used to coaching football in 1993 or something . It's like they went out to find the oldest possible guys to coach with utterly zero fresh ideas. While the rest of the league moved forward the Bengals moved backwards a decade or two . 
Maybe next year will be different ,but if they keep this coaching staff they'll be the absolute bottom of the barrel . 

[bengalsturntup926]

So this thread is who failed my high expectations this should be fun. I will not include guys that I don't think got a fair chance or thought they sucked anyway.

Start off with dalton, after last year I felt I was proven wrong, I liked Andy's game, watching him go out was heart breaking, mccaron didn't inspire me, I thought dalton was more fun to watch, and not gun shy. This year is completely different without hue Jackson. I'm reverting back to looking at things I don't like more then what I do like.

Dansby- thought that was a great sign and would improve our linebackers. I see him on about 1 tackle a game and he gets pumped up about that one play.

Brandon lafell. Didn't like the signing at first, then got myself to like it, then about game 2 I realized he sucked, he can't get open and relies on getting pass interference, and they aren't calling it.

Cedric ogbuehi- didn't think he'd be that bad

Darqueze Dennard- he's probably made to be a outside corner, but I thought he'd be a upgrade over Leon hall, haven't seen it at all. Lately he's made some hardtackles, but he's been pretty bad this year overall, I had high hopes for him.

Michael johnson- didn't think he'd regress that much

Rey maualuga- I thought he'd at least be a run thumper, hasn't even done that this year

Nick vigil- they hyped him up so much, and his very limited snaps he's had I haven't noticed him one bit

Adam jones- looks like he lost it, even on punt returns and I didn't see that coming

Aj green- jk just wanted to make you mad for a minute

That's all I can think of, oh yeah the Oc also. I thought him being the son of a good coordinator, I thought he could do better, but he looks like he's just trying to be hue Jackson, but worse

[Bengalzona]

Ced is obviously the worst of the worst. I don't think it is too early to call him a bust. Overall, I give the O-line a D minus. They are the primary reason we have a losing record, IMO. Certainly, there are personal problems. But it also makes me wonder about the whole offensive scheme. Hopefully, we won't get our next OC from "Larry's Bargain Basement NFL Coach Shop".

No mention of Nugent? Probably because our expectations for him weren't so high to begin with.

[*SHRacerX*]

I expected Geno Atkins to show that he was better than Aaron Donald and be the most dominant DT in the NFL.

That was way off reality as well. Looks like an also-ran. I don't understand.

[lone bengal]

(11-26-2016, 07:26 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I expected Geno Atkins to show that he was better than Aaron Donald and be the most dominant DT in the NFL.

That was way off reality as well. Looks like an also-ran. I don't understand.

Agreed. I also thought Dunlap would be more dominant , he had 13.5 sacks last year and was talking about breaking the all time sack record, I had high expectations for him. If Geno gets doubled teamed every play this guy should be making some more plays than he has.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-26-2016, 10:44 AM)lone bengal Wrote: Agreed. I also thought Dunlap would be more dominant , he had 13.5 sacks last year and was talking about breaking the all time sack record, I had high expectations for him. If Geno gets doubled teamed every play this guy should be making some more plays than he has.

The sad part is, he isn't doubled every play...

[Shake n Blake]

(11-26-2016, 07:26 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I expected Geno Atkins to show that he was better than Aaron Donald and be the most dominant DT in the NFL.

That was way off reality as well.  Looks like an also-ran.  I don't understand.

Atkins has 4.5 sacks (on pace for 7) and is regularly at the QB when he's not being held. Donald has 5.0 sacks. I'm not sure what people want out of the guy. Expectations are too high and I believe the failure of those around him is causing some people to look at Atkins even though he's having a fine season.

Dunlap is also having a typical Dunlap season. The problem is we're not generating pressure from our bit players.

Peko (usually good for 3-4 sacks): 0 sacks
M. Johnson: 2 sacks
MarBUST Hunt: 0 sacks
Will Clark: 3 sacks
Sims: 1 sack

We should probably have at least 10 more sacks out of this group. That's the problem with our line right now. Not Geno and Carlos.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-26-2016, 12:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Atkins has 4.5 sacks (on pace for 7) and is regularly at the QB when he's not being held. Donald has 5.0 sacks. I'm not sure what people want out of the guy. Expectations are too high and I believe the failure of those around him is causing some people to look at Atkins even though he's having a fine season.

Dunlap is also having a typical Dunlap season. The problem is we're not generating pressure from our bit players.

Peko (usually good for 3-4 sacks): 0 sacks
M. Johnson: 2 sacks
MarBUST Hunt: 0 sacks
Will Clark: 3 sacks
Sims: 1 sack

We should probably have at least 10 more sacks out of this group. That's the problem with our line right now. Not Geno and Carlos.

I forget who said it first, but there is a saying that people lie, stats don't lie, or something like that.  

The games I have watched first hand, where he isn't even double-teamed, and in a critical third down, I will see him get stood up and play patty-cake and there are many times where you see him let up.  I mean, he stops rushing.  He isn't trying to time a batted ball, either.  It just looks like he picks and chooses when he is going to really give an effort.  I was hoping he would carry this defensive line and motivate them with his energy, but he takes as many plays off as anyone, if not more...

As far as being held goes, I saw a ton of it against pitt, but no more at any other point than is seen in a normal game.  I love the guys ability, and like so many on this team, I really don't like his effort.  

[Shake n Blake]

(11-27-2016, 10:29 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I forget who said it first, but there is a saying that people lie, stats don't lie, or something like that.  

The games I have watched first hand, where he isn't even double-teamed, and in a critical third down, I will see him get stood up and play patty-cake and there are many times where you see him let up.  I mean, he stops rushing.  He isn't trying to time a batted ball, either.  It just looks like he picks and chooses when he is going to really give an effort.  I was hoping he would carry this defensive line and motivate them with his energy, but he takes as many plays off as anyone, if not more...

As far as being held goes, I saw a ton of it against pitt, but no more at any other point than is seen in a normal game.  I love the guys ability, and like so many on this team, I really don't like his effort.  

I've said something like that several times. I doubt I said it first, but either way, I think there's a lot of truth to it. Losing can change perceptions and make people start looking for players to blame. Suddenly you're looking at Geno with a critical eye you've never used on him before. 

Personally, I think Geno is fine and statistically he's on pace for a typical Geno season. I honestly believe Geno has probably always "taken a play off" every now and then. Players his size get gassed. This just shows the difference between winning and losing. When you're losing, fans start to question everything and everyone.

As for holding, I know the Giants kept him from at least 2 sacks with blatant holds. Geno was visibly upset, which is rare for him.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-27-2016, 02:09 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: As for holding, I know the Giants kept him from at least 2 sacks with blatant holds. Geno was visibly upset, which is rare for him.

He needs to get more upset.  And the moron that runs this team needs to make a tape, send it to the NFL, and demand a response or he is going public.  It will KEEP HAPPENING YOU DUMB PIECE OF SHIT UNTIL YOU STAND UP AND FIGHT!!!

Sorry, that is directed at Marv.  I can't stand his complacency.  Sam Wyche would not tolerate this bullshit.