Timeout, Who To Blame

[BengalFanInNJ]

(11-28-2016, 05:36 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Wasn't watch because I was driving down 81 back to NC. Was listening to the Ravens broadcast crew and they acted like it came from Marv. They were even shocked that we took it to allow for the Ravens to have extra time to decide if they wanted to challenge or not  





F you Marvin.  :paul:

I was on 81 driving back to NC myself a few hours earlier than when you were. Unfortunately, I was able to watch the game.

[BengalYankee]

(11-27-2016, 11:26 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: On the boneheaded timeout, where we gave Baltimore plenty of time to weigh there options and challenge the play... who made the decisions to call timeout?

Was it Marvins fault, did he initiate it?
Was Dalton forced to call a timeout because the play call was slow? (Zampese)
Or was it simply Dalton making the dumbest decision of his career.

If anyone can clarify who actually made this blaring gaff actually happen, I would love to find out.

Right when it happened I thought it was perfect material for Stephen A Smith tomorrow. He should UNLOAD on Marvin and the bunch tomorrow... somewhat excited for it surprisingly.

[GreenCornBengal]

This thread has shown me exactly why I created it. Nobody knows who to blame.

I personally like Bfines conclusion that it has to be on Zampese. He should have called a play in quicker or something. There has to be situational practices that address these things... but maybe our team is neglecting those types of practices.

All 3 are accountable to some degree, and sometimes I wish Dalton would just say SCREW YOU COACH, audible to a run play and do it.....

[*bfine32*]

(11-28-2016, 09:59 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: This thread has shown me exactly why I created it. Nobody knows who to blame.

I personally like Bfines conclusion that it has to be on Zampese. He should have called a play in quicker or something. There has to be situational practices that address these things... but maybe our team is neglecting those types of practices.

All 3 are accountable to some degree, and sometimes I wish Dalton would just say SCREW YOU COACH, audible to a run play and do it.....

An additional thing to consider is when Andy signaled for the T.O. I'm pretty sure it was with about 8 seconds left on the play clock. I have been told that the commo between the QB and OC cuts out when the play clock hits 10. If I were to guess. I'd say the OC was in the middle of telling the QB something when it cut out. Now Andy could have audibled, but it would have had to have been quick. 

If someone is looking for an example of the HC calling a T.O. look at the one we burned fairly early in the 2nd half when we were on D. Marvin was about 15 yards onto the field. 

I will say a staple of Marvin's tenure the last few years has been miscommunication on Offense. Regardless if Gruden, Hue, or Z is the OC. 

[Fresno B]

(11-28-2016, 06:23 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: That's on Andy.  That's the type of stuff he's done his entire career.  It's just a lack of situational awareness.  Add that to a long list of delay of games.  Other QBs rush to the line and run a play.  Watch his sense of urgency during 2 minute drills, there is none.

Fred shall be here shortly to "set you straight" about how aware Dalton is. Brownshoe is gonna ask if you've even watch games. 1 of the ruebens will straight clown you. Watch

[3wt]

(11-28-2016, 10:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: An additional thing to consider is when Andy signaled for the T.O. I'm pretty sure it was with about 8 seconds left on the play clock. I have been told that the commo between the QB and OC cuts out when the play clock hits 10. If I were to guess. I'd say the OC was in the middle of telling the QB something when it cut out. Now Andy could have audibled, but it would have had to have been quick. 

If someone is looking for an example of the HC calling a T.O. look at the one we burned fairly early in the 2nd half when we were on D. Marvin was about 15 yards onto the field. 

I will say a staple of Marvin's tenure the last few years has been miscommunication on Offense. Regardless if Gruden, Hue, or Z is the OC. 

Per Marvin Lewis, courtesy of Dave Lapham, the refs were trying to figure something out and neglected to stop the play clock leaving the Bengals no option but to call a time out.   Lewis said he would have challenged their failure to stop the play clock, but they were at the other end of the field and he would not have gotten to them in time.

So it was on the refs not the Bengals

[Daddy-O]

(11-27-2016, 11:42 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Its really bad when your 8 year old son asks why didn't they just run a quick play so they couldn't challenge.   LMAO at the horrible coaching!

I wish I was making this up, but my son actually asked me that.

your son probably also realized you don't decline a 10 yard penalty when a team is in field goal range.  Marv's masterpieces just keep getting better and better.

[Stonyhands]

(11-28-2016, 11:25 PM)Fresno B Wrote: Fred shall be here shortly to "set you straight" about how aware Dalton is. Brownshoe is gonna ask if you've even watch games. 1 of the ruebens will straight clown you. Watch

I've been around long enough that I know who the fools are. The same BS over and over about how these are NFL coaches and they know more...blah blah blah.

Maybe I've never coached at the NFL level but I've got years upon years of experience seeing what other franchises have done versus the Mike Brown's method of running a football team. Clearly Mike Brown's definition of a successful season differs from other real life successful teams.

For the record I called out Palmer after his elbow injury and was flamed over and over again because I went against the status quo. Clearly if you don't blindly follow the crap this team puts out you aren't a true fan, clearly.

We've had our opportunities the last 5 seasons but instead of focusing on the positions that were our weak spots they stayed stagnant in free agency and resigned the very players that were hurting this team.

I've never been a Dalton fan, never will be. People wanted him to come in and erase the memory of Palmer. So they made excuse after excuse for the guy. It wasn't until we put up 1 top 5 WR, 2 quality receivers, 2 really good RBs, 1 top TE, and a good performing o-line that he had an almost MVP year. Plus a top 5 defense. Really? What QB wouldn't?

Signing Andy and AJ the same year really made Andy look like a solid QB. Andy is terrible at reading zone coverage. Has horrible pocket awareness and is absolutely the worst QB under pressure. But many would have you believing it's all the line's fault. His audibles are terrible and his touch throws are ridiculously bad. But people are so incredibly brainwashed that all it takes is for Andy to throw one completion to forget the previous throw over the receivers head or not throwing to a wide open receiver. His stats are purely checkdown throws. Im not saying McCarron is better because I haven't watched him enough to conclude that. But the offense does open up when he was in last year. The ball is spread around and AJ actually goes through his reads unlike Andy.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-29-2016, 05:00 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: I've been around long enough that I know who the fools are.  The same BS over and over about how these are NFL coaches and they know more...blah blah blah.  

Maybe I've never coached at the NFL level but I've got years upon years of experience seeing what other franchises have done versus the Mike Brown's method of running a football team.  Clearly Mike Brown's definition of a successful season differs from other real life successful teams.  

For the record I called out Palmer after his elbow injury and was flamed over and over again because I went against the status quo.  Clearly if you don't blindly follow the crap this team puts out you aren't a true fan, clearly.  

We've had our opportunities the last 5 seasons but instead of focusing on the positions that were our weak spots they stayed stagnant in free agency and resigned the very players that were hurting this team.  

I've never been a Dalton fan, never will be.  People wanted him to come in and erase the memory of Palmer.  So they made excuse after excuse for the guy.  It wasn't until we put up 1 top 5 WR, 2 quality receivers, 2 really good RBs, 1 top TE, and a good performing o-line that he had an almost MVP year. Plus a top 5 defense.  Really? What QB wouldn't?  

Signing Andy and AJ the same year really made Andy look like a solid QB.  Andy is terrible at reading zone coverage.  Has horrible pocket awareness and is absolutely the worst QB under pressure.  But many would have you believing it's all the line's fault.  His audibles are terrible and his touch throws are ridiculously bad.  But people are so incredibly brainwashed that all it takes is for Andy to throw one completion to forget the previous throw over the receivers head or not throwing to a wide open receiver.  His stats are purely checkdown throws.  Im not saying McCarron is better because I haven't watched him enough to conclude that.  But the offense does open up when he was in last year.  The ball is spread around and AJ actually goes through his reads unlike Andy.

It does?  Do tell......

We were outgained by the hapless 49ers here:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=400791726

The Broncos here:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=400791578

....and Ryan Mallett came off the couch to torch him here:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/game?gameId=400791617

Then there was the playoff game, where we outgained the Stoolers, but not by much:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=400820428


I get folks don't like Dalton, and there are admittedly reasons to justify it.....but do we need to make shit up too?

[Mickeypoo]

(11-29-2016, 04:59 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: your son probably also realized you don't decline a 10 yard penalty when a team is in field goal range.  Marv's masterpieces just keep getting better and better.

lol!  He did not catch it in the game, but if I were to explain the situation and options he would most certainly comprehend and retain the information.  The kid is 8 and makes me feel stupid sometimes.  :)

[*ochocincos*]

(11-29-2016, 04:59 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: your son probably also realized you don't decline a 10 yard penalty when a team is in field goal range.  Marv's masterpieces just keep getting better and better.

Meh. Hardly any kicker can nail a 57 yarder. I'm sure the Bengals were thinking that the likelihood of hitting said 57 yarder is very low and if the Bengals were to give the Ravens another chance at third down, they'd have likely either gotten the first down or at least close enough to have a shorter FG than 57 yards out.
Essentially just no faith in the defense.

[Mickeypoo]

(11-29-2016, 05:19 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Meh. Hardly any kicker can nail a 57 yarder. I'm sure the Bengals were thinking that the likelihood of hitting said 57 yarder is very low and if the Bengals were to give the Ravens another chance at third down, they'd have likely either gotten the first down or at least close enough to have a shorter FG than 57 yards out.
Essentially just no faith in the defense.

Ya, I can't say that I disagree with Marvin on this one.  When you look at all the options it seems to be the correct call.

[Stonyhands]

(11-29-2016, 05:11 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: It does?  Do tell......

We were outgained by the hapless 49ers here:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=400791726

The Broncos here:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=400791578

....and Ryan Mallett came off the couch to torch him here:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/game?gameId=400791617

Then there was the playoff game, where we outgained the Stoolers, but not by much:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=400820428


I get folks don't like Dalton, and there are admittedly reasons to justify it.....but do we need to make shit up too?

AJ is a backup what do you expect him to come in and be Tom Brady? It's not like he's had season after season of running with the first team. Yet he came in and took the eventual Super Bowl champs into overtime. Something Tom Brady didn't do and neither did Cam Newton. For all intents and purposes McCarron QB'd us to the best shot this team has had to winning a playoff game in over 2 decades. Had Hill not fumbled or the defense not imploded it would have been a win. I'll take McCarron's one game playoff stats over all of Andy's playoff stats every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-29-2016, 05:40 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: AJ is a backup what do you expect him to come in and be Tom Brady?  It's not like he's had season after season of running with the first team.  Yet he came in and took the eventual Super Bowl champs into overtime.  Something Tom Brady didn't do and neither did Cam Newton.  For all intents and purposes McCarron QB'd us to the best shot this team has had to winning a playoff game in over 2 decades.  Had Hill not fumbled or the defense not imploded it would have been a win.  I'll take McCarron's one game playoff stats over all of Andy's playoff stats every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

That's fair enough, but I haven't seen the offense "open up" with him in the game as you alluded to. In fact, it's been quite the opposite. That's all I'm saying.  Really, his playoff game was Dalton-esque until the last couple series, what, two fumbles and a pick?  Jeremy Hill ran like a man possessed until he fumbled it away.  That was also the first time the defense showed up to play in a playoff game.....well.....after the Shazier hit that is.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-29-2016, 05:40 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: AJ is a backup what do you expect him to come in and be Tom Brady?  It's not like he's had season after season of running with the first team.  Yet he came in and took the eventual Super Bowl champs into overtime.  Something Tom Brady didn't do and neither did Cam Newton.  For all intents and purposes McCarron QB'd us to the best shot this team has had to winning a playoff game in over 2 decades.  Had Hill not fumbled or the defense not imploded it would have been a win.  I'll take McCarron's one game playoff stats over all of Andy's playoff stats every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

If the Bengals were in true rebuild mode like the Browns, I could understand the thought of people (not necessarily you) saying the Bengals should trade AJ and Dalton, start McCarron, and get some high draft picks.

The problem is that the Bengals are not in a rebuild mode. They were expected to make the playoffs and finally win at least one game in the playoffs. It just didn't pan out that way.

Essentially, as someone mentioned in another thread, this team feels like the early 2000's Bucs. The team has gone stagnant or regressed some, but it hasn't missed its window. Replace the HC and a few others, make a true push.

[Millhouse]

The man behind the grassy knoll fence called it.

[Stonyhands]

(11-29-2016, 05:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If the Bengals were in true rebuild mode like the Browns, I could understand the thought of people (not necessarily you) saying the Bengals should trade AJ and Dalton, start McCarron, and get some high draft picks.

The problem is that the Bengals are not in a rebuild mode. They were expected to make the playoffs and finally win at least one game in the playoffs. It just didn't pan out that way.

Essentially, as someone mentioned in another thread, this team feels like the early 2000's Bucs. The team has gone stagnant or regressed some, but it hasn't missed its window. Replace the HC and a few others, make a true push.

True this team could win a playoff game under Dalton but it'd take an experienced coach "Cowher/Gruden" coming in and 1st ridding this team of all the cancerous position coaches and coordinators and 2, changing the attitude and philosophy of this franchise. Only then will I believe we can win a playoff game under Andy. However, I don't feel like we would ever have a realistic chance at winning the Super Bowl with Andy as I still do not believe he is capable of stringing together enough good games in prime time against top competitors to go all the way and win it all. When he's not on he is bad, very bad. When he's doing well he is really good. But he's way too inconsistent. I've seen it now with three different OC's. Unfortunately he should be peaking but has the worst OC in the NFL right now holding him back.

[TKUHL]

(11-28-2016, 09:55 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Anyone who has ever played a single game of Madden knows that when faced with a conversion that, to the naked eye, was obviously not truly a conversion, you ***** run a quick play.

I said it when we were given a first down "They better run a quick play."

Then, when I saw Andy's dumbass signalling a timeout I said "Well, get ready to punt it, because there's no way Baltimore doesn't challenge the spot now."

Then, shocker, they ***** did.

And, another shocker, they ***** won.

Marvin Lewis is an asshat. He has absolutely no reason to be our coach next year. Hell, he should be fired right now so that we can start seeing what a real coach can do with this team.

Of course, knowing Mike, he'd just move Zampese or Paulie up to head coach and we'd be just as bad so...There is no winning strategy with this team. We're never going to escape Marvin's regime and we're never going to win a playoff game. At least not for another 10 to 15 years.

And to think just a few years ago we had so many good options we couldnt go wrong, yet as the Bengals always manage to do somehow we did. Amazing.