Eric Winston?

[sonofstat]

(12-05-2016, 10:03 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Coming out of college, there was tape of very good Ogubehi and also tape of bad Ogubehi.

I actually did a scouting report on him: http://stripehype.com/2015/05/05/2015-nfl-draft-cedric-ogbuehi-scouting-report/

But if you don't feel like clicking the link, I'll just give the strengths and weaknesses:

Strengths: Quick feet. Able to engage and disengage blocks quite easily and smoothly, as well as push his opponent into another blocker and still maintain leverage. Quick and uses his hands quickly. Relies on technique and the ability to remain agile. He has the speed to match up extremely well against speed rushers and not lose containment. Great length. Amazing in pass protection and can shut down quick defenders. He is a natural knee bender to go along with his quick feet, which some NFL offensive tackles lack a combination of. Has shown he can read screens and continue to block down the field, which helps with his speed. He is explosive and fast at the point of attack. Can be moved along the line and is flexible. Long arms and quick hands allow him to stay nimble.

Weaknesses: Injuries. Torn ACL and has had other injuries; an ankle injury in 2011 and an undisclosed injury in 2013. Lacks strength. Too many times he struggles with bull rushes and strong defenders. While watching tape, Ogubehi would get into position and do everything he needed to do from a coaching standpoint, but lacked the strength to sustain blocks. Sometimes plays too high and allows defenders to get around him or control him. Doesn’t always control opponents, but rather catches defenders. Needs to work on his hands and punch. While he has good footwork technique, he struggles with his hand technique.



Throughout, Ogubehi has shown all of this, but also in negative ways. He has shown he still has quick feet, but as stated he lacks strength. He does get moved around more than he should and doesn't anchor. His technique still needs work. He has a lot of things you want in a tackle. But he struggles with staying engaged, anchoring, and technique.

Also, of note, he was VERY good in 2013. But 2014 was a down year for him too.

Thanks for the link...your summary is pretty accurate assessment to this point!

I don't know about OL technique and here in the U.K can't follow college football so I'm relying on reports about his play pre-bengals.

The worry is that the struggles with bull rushes, power moves appear to have always been noted by people.  I really don't know if just one full off season of NFL strength training is the cure for everything here.....

I get that 2015 he was injured so he gets a pass, but 2014 he also gave up 7 sacks which however we you explain it is a lot - especially for a guy touted for his pass pro. 

So to spend a R1 pick on a guy who's good year was 2013, had a serious injury is hard to accept.  

He's gonna improve with another off season and will probably come back 10lbs or so heavier next year but I worry that this aggression, and core strength is always going to constrain him even if we try and move him to OG

[Socal Bengals fan]

I believe he has lower back issues so there's some exercises he can't even do like squats. I want my money back whoever drafted this guy. Wanted to draft him. Smh

[Hoofhearted]

(12-05-2016, 10:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Winston played decent, and it is a big reason the O played as well as it did.

Dalton just needs some time cuz he is good, real good when he has some time.

Hey, we have been calling for benching Og for awhile.

Seems the same thing every year, the coaches just take awhile to get it.

Here comes Fredtoast lol

Idk if I would say offense played well. They looked really one-dimensional and had AD not been dropping dimes (10 yards every time he completed it), they would of been stuck in the muck. Idk if I like the idea of not having really any assemblence of a run game to speak of (they had a 2.4 YPC). 

[Hoofhearted]

(12-05-2016, 01:10 PM)Au165 Wrote: Once again disagree, it's not about the speed. There have been plenty of power backs to take sweeps and tosses in their NFL career and have success. In order to do it though the blockers have to be set up and oyu have to make a good read on those blocks. the best guys don't just try to make the edge on sweeps, they actually cut it back away from the sideline when the opportunity is there.

Edit: As a side note, even Gio didn't have great success on tosses. We just don't set up the blocks outside well it seems.

Yes, but you usually set it up by eating them up inside, and the OLB and CBs taking a bit more of a gamble and biting to the inside run, giving the line and runner better angles to work with. 

[Earendil]

(12-05-2016, 10:03 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Coming out of college, there was tape of very good Ogubehi and also tape of bad Ogubehi.

I actually did a scouting report on him: http://stripehype.com/2015/05/05/2015-nfl-draft-cedric-ogbuehi-scouting-report/

But if you don't feel like clicking the link, I'll just give the strengths and weaknesses:

Strengths: Quick feet. Able to engage and disengage blocks quite easily and smoothly, as well as push his opponent into another blocker and still maintain leverage. Quick and uses his hands quickly. Relies on technique and the ability to remain agile. He has the speed to match up extremely well against speed rushers and not lose containment. Great length. Amazing in pass protection and can shut down quick defenders. He is a natural knee bender to go along with his quick feet, which some NFL offensive tackles lack a combination of. Has shown he can read screens and continue to block down the field, which helps with his speed. He is explosive and fast at the point of attack. Can be moved along the line and is flexible. Long arms and quick hands allow him to stay nimble.

Weaknesses: Injuries. Torn ACL and has had other injuries; an ankle injury in 2011 and an undisclosed injury in 2013. Lacks strength. Too many times he struggles with bull rushes and strong defenders. While watching tape, Ogubehi would get into position and do everything he needed to do from a coaching standpoint, but lacked the strength to sustain blocks. Sometimes plays too high and allows defenders to get around him or control him. Doesn’t always control opponents, but rather catches defenders. Needs to work on his hands and punch. While he has good footwork technique, he struggles with his hand technique.



Throughout, Ogubehi has shown all of this, but also in negative ways. He has shown he still has quick feet, but as stated he lacks strength. He does get moved around more than he should and doesn't anchor. His technique still needs work. He has a lot of things you want in a tackle. But he struggles with staying engaged, anchoring, and technique.

Also, of note, he was VERY good in 2013. But 2014 was a down year for him too.

Would you be willing to be our new OL coach?

[bengalguy71]

(12-06-2016, 10:44 AM)Earendil Wrote: Would you be willing to be our new OL coach?

Unfortunately, Mike Brown probably wouldn't bite.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-06-2016, 10:15 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Idk if I would say offense played well. They looked really one-dimensional and had AD not been dropping dimes (10 yards every time he completed it), they would of been stuck in the muck. Idk if I like the idea of not having really any assemblence of a run game to speak of (they had a 2.4 YPC). 

Yeah, the run game definately needs to improve. True about Dalton dropping dimes. Lots of perfect throws in that game.

He won't always play that well.

[Shake n Blake]

I believe Zerker used to call him "pillow hands" leading up to the draft. Truth is, the kid is a bust. He's so bad that you can't even justify risking another season to develop him. He almost single handedly tanked this season.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-06-2016, 03:07 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I believe Zerker used to call him "pillow hands" leading up to the draft. Truth is, the kid is a bust. He's so bad that you can't even justify risking another season to develop him. He almost single handedly tanked this season.

Berserker knows O-line play as well.

Too bad, terrible pick. Sad when one player can tank an entire teams season. Almost unheard of.

I still put it on the coaches. Marv, PA, Haslett, Coyle, Burney, Geunther have all been pretty bad this year.

Most of all Marv, PA and Haslett.

[Hoofhearted]

(12-06-2016, 03:26 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Berserker knows O-line play as well.

Too bad, terrible pick. Sad when one player can tank an entire teams season. Almost unheard of.

I still put it on the coaches. Marv, PA, Haslett, Coyle, Burney, Geunther have all been pretty bad this year.

Most of all Marv, PA and Haslett.

I don't knock them for the pick; it wasn't a slam dunk pick, to which none are. I'm much more disappointed that they allow him to be so bad for so long, him and Nuge. And how they came to the conclusion to give him the starting job over almost literally anyone else on the OL? 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-06-2016, 04:00 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I don't knock them for the pick; it wasn't a slam dunk pick, to which none are. I'm much more disappointed that they allow him to be so bad for so long, him and Nuge. And how they came to the conclusion to give him the starting job over almost literally anyone else on the OL? 

Same here. To continue to start Og over Winston and not giving the Nuge the boot is what really disappoints me as well.

Pathetic coaching and holding no one accountable helps no one. I liked Nuge in the past but it is obvious he is in a funk in
his head on extra points. When this happens you replace the guy. This reminds me of when Brad St. Louis was our long
snapper and just lost it..

Pretty much lost our season that time too.

[wolfkaosaun]

(12-06-2016, 05:23 AM)sonofstat Wrote: Thanks for the link...your summary is pretty accurate assessment to this point!

I don't know about OL technique and here in the U.K can't follow college football so I'm relying on reports about his play pre-bengals.

The worry is that the struggles with bull rushes, power moves appear to have always been noted by people.  I really don't know if just one full off season of NFL strength training is the cure for everything here.....

I get that 2015 he was injured so he gets a pass, but 2014 he also gave up 7 sacks which however we you explain it is a lot - especially for a guy touted for his pass pro. 

So to spend a R1 pick on a guy who's good year was 2013, had a serious injury is hard to accept.  

He's gonna improve with another off season and will probably come back 10lbs or so heavier next year but I worry that this aggression, and core strength is always going to constrain him even if we try and move him to OG

I was never a fan of the pick. Preferred Jake Fisher over him to be honest. Granted, the one guy I wanted was La'el Collins but we saw how that went for him.

Ogbuehi needs to work on strength in his legs and actually having hand technique. He's quick enough to move with defenders, but lacks a punch. HOPEFULLY an offseason full of actual training will help. Hopefully.

(12-06-2016, 06:25 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: I believe he has lower back issues so there's some exercises he can't even do like squats.  I want my money back whoever drafted this guy.  Wanted to draft him.   Smh

I only know of his ACL injuries

(12-06-2016, 10:44 AM)Earendil Wrote: Would you be willing to be our new OL coach?

Yes lol. Granted I wouldn't be the best at it, but I'd take that opportunity.
I'm actually sending my resume in to PBS for scouting very soon. I have a portfolio and I'm debating on waiting another year to build some more, or to just send it in before this season is over.

(12-06-2016, 03:07 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I believe Zerker used to call him "pillow hands" leading up to the draft. Truth is, the kid is a bust. He's so bad that you can't even justify risking another season to develop him. He almost single handedly tanked this season.

Yep. Berserker and I have talked about numerous issues with Og and Bodine. He's always had hand problems, always. He gets in the way rather than actually blocking. His footwork is good, but he doesn't anchor nor have a push. He also gives up too quickly.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-06-2016, 04:48 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: I was never a fan of the pick. Preferred Jake Fisher over him to be honest. Granted, the one guy I wanted was La'el Collins but we saw how that went for him.

Ogbuehi needs to work on strength in his legs and actually having hand technique. He's quick enough to move with defenders, but lacks a punch. HOPEFULLY an offseason full of actual training will help. Hopefully.


I only know of his ACL injuries


Yes lol. Granted I wouldn't be the best at it, but I'd take that opportunity.
I'm actually sending my resume in to PBS for scouting very soon. I have a portfolio and I'm debating on waiting another year to build some more, or to just send it in before this season is over.


Yep. Berserker and I have talked about numerous issues with Og and Bodine. He's always had hand problems, always. He gets in the way rather than actually blocking. His footwork is good, but he doesn't anchor nor have a push. He also gives up too quickly.

Would take you in an instant over PA Wolf. That is pretty cool you sending in your resume to PBS.

Good luck to you man.

You are spot on about Og and Bodine's problems. That is where you have to start as a coach. See the weakness and improve it.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-06-2016, 04:00 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I don't knock them for the pick; it wasn't a slam dunk pick, to which none are. I'm much more disappointed that they allow him to be so bad for so long, him and Nuge. And how they came to the conclusion to give him the starting job over almost literally anyone else on the OL? 

That's the unforgivable part to me. You have what you believe to be a SB contender and you wreck that by being too patient/loyal to 2 players having clearly awful seasons? I'd love to be a fly on the wall at PBS to know who made those calls. If this were a normal franchise, heads would roll for that kind of decision making. 

[Bengal Dude]

I'd hope that the team would consider moving Ced inside. When he was at A&M, Ced looked really good at RG. If/when Zeitler walks, I'd see if he can do anything there.

[Earendil]

(12-06-2016, 04:48 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Yes lol. Granted I wouldn't be the best at it, but I'd take that opportunity.
I'm actually sending my resume in to PBS for scouting very soon. I have a portfolio and I'm debating on waiting another year to build some more, or to just send it in before this season is over.

Good luck man!  

BTW, I know it's been mentioned here before, but it drives me nuts that on running plays, the OL stands up and loses leverage, instead of staying low and pushing.  Is there any logic to that?  It seems stupid to me and would explain why we rarely get any push from the line.

[bengalguy71]

It's official now! Winston on the first team in the depth chart.

http://cin.247sports.com/Bolt/Bengals-make-huge-change-to-depth-chart-ahead-of-Week-14-49596134

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-05-2016, 11:34 AM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: I will give you solid in pass pro.   As far as "serviceable in the run game," Bengals had 71 yards running on 31 carries for a robust 2.3 avg.  Hill was 1.4.  I guess it depends on what your definition of "serviceable" is.  

For whatever reasons, we absolutely suck at running the ball.   

One word: predictability. Some teams will even show man coverage and not be worried because they know a run is coming.  One minor criticism of Dalton (and it could be what he is allowed to do) is that his checks at the line are almost always to a run.  I need to see him know when the defense is dead set against the run (maybe a few more hard counts?) that he can audible to a deep shot.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-06-2016, 05:37 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I'd hope that the team would consider moving Ced inside. When he was at A&M, Ced looked really good at RG. If/when Zeitler walks, I'd see if he can do anything there.

Well, I don't know his strength at the point of attack, but he sure struggles in space.  Maybe with a full offseason of some real training, he could come back as a Guard.  At RT, he is a train wreck.  

As so many have stated, at some point, you have to cut your losses and stop putting your QB's health on the line, not to mention killing the offense as a whole. 

Either way, there is no way in hell that guy is a starter next year.  Every other position group had to earn it....he should be no different, just because we let fat tub of goo go in FA. 

[Big Boss]

(12-07-2016, 10:27 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: It's official now!  Winston on the first team in the depth chart.

http://cin.247sports.com/Bolt/Bengals-make-huge-change-to-depth-chart-ahead-of-Week-14-49596134

Too little, too late.