Paul Dehner with Mo Egger on Tuesday: Zampese

[samhain]

I was listening to Paul Dehner's weekly appearance on Mo's afternoon show yesterday on the way to work. They were discussing the offense's disappearances late in games and their inability to dial up effective plays when needed.

Basically, both seemed to blame the coordinator for the offense's problems given the relative consistency at key offensive positions ( which is a point that could be debated, no doubt). Mo asked Dehner if he felt that Zampese had a long leash with the organization, and he got a relatively surprising answer: NO.

Dehner and the other reporters that are around this team regularly are not generally prone to hyperbole. They are very familiar with how the team is run. They know better than to speculate on major personnel changes. Very telling IMO if his intuition is correct.

In short, he pointed to the fact that Zampese has been here for 3 OCs and 2 changes at the spot. Marvin and co passed on him not once but twice. Perhaps this season has confirmed a feeling that he's not OC material?

Part of me thinks that the crappy OL play and losses at the receiver positions left Zampese snakebite before the season began. They have however, shown flashes of effectiveness for large parts of games recently. It seems that when a defense makes adjustments, that they don't have an answer, as was the case this past weekend.

So what is it? Personnel or an OC out of his depth?

[PDub80]

(12-22-2016, 09:30 PM)samhain Wrote: I was listening to Paul Dehner's weekly appearance on Mo's afternoon show yesterday on the way to work.  They were discussing the offense's disappearances late in games and their inability to dial up effective plays when needed.  

Basically, both seemed to blame the coordinator for the offense's problems given the relative consistency at key offensive positions ( which is a point that could be debated, no doubt).  Mo asked Dehner if he felt that Zampese had a long leash with the organization, and he got a relatively surprising answer: NO.  

Dehner and the other reporters that are around this team regularly are not generally prone to hyperbole.  They are very familiar with how the team is run.  They know better than to speculate on major personnel changes.  Very telling IMO if his intuition is correct.

In short, he pointed to the fact that Zampese has been here for 3 OCs and 2 changes at the spot.  Marvin and co passed on him not once but twice.  Perhaps this season has confirmed a feeling that he's not OC material?  

Part of me thinks that the crappy OL play and losses at the receiver positions left Zampese snakebite before the season began.  They have however, shown flashes of effectiveness for large parts of games recently.  It seems that when a defense makes adjustments, that they don't have an answer, as was the case this past weekend.  

So what is it?  Personnel or an OC out of his depth?

OC out of his depth. No question. He's in charge of the offense. All offensive coaches and position groups report to and are under him. He is snake bit by his own methods, play calling, and overall direction.

I would rather have 1 Bratkowski than 10 Zampese's. He's maybe the worst OC I've seen here in the last 25 seasons. The impotence and play calling in the red zone in particular has been disgusting.

AJ said he's gotten him more open than any other OC he's played for.... Big deal. To what ends? The offense is junk.

[SunsetBengal]

At this point in the season, can only be the OC. He's had all year to get to know what he has to work with, personnel wise.

[wolfkaosaun]

OC out of his depth. I never liked the move (never liked the Guenther move either and I'll admit that). We would see numerous head scratching plays and sometimes it seems that Zampese is afraid to let this offense go. It's also been predictable all year long. Watch some game tape. Even last week, watch how many times they motion a WR and count how many times it's a run. Just count. It'll blow your mind.

While I don't think they will fire him. I could see them demote him like they did with Ken Anderson. Mike Brown has only fired 1 OC, and that was Bob Bratkowski, and that was mainly because his hand was forced.

The first half offense has had life. Sure, there's been some poor games. But the team has scored 168 of their 288 points have come in the first half. They have the 23rd ranked offense when it comes to scoring.
In the 4th quarter, they have scored 51 points.

To better understand, the Bengals average 8.6 points per game in the 2nd half. Ranked 27th in the league.
In the 4th quarter, the Bengals average 3.6 points per game. Ranked dead last in the NFL. Browns come in at 3.9 points in the 4th.

There is NO reason an offense with Green, Eifert, Hill, Gio, Dalton, LaFell, and Boyd should only average 8.6 points in the 2nd half of a game.

That right there shows you that our offensive coordinator CAN NOT make adjustments at half time. First half we've seen some good moments. Look at the Giants, Eagles, Steelers, even the Patriots it was close at half time. But once a team figures out what our offense is doing, Zampese does not and can not adjust.

[*bengalfan74*]

^What he said^ X2

I didn't like the move from the beginning either, and I still don't. Zampese just isn't an NFL caliber OC. He's a page flipper. In other words he just flips thru the pages and picks a play that hasn't been ran in awhile.

He doesn't have his finger on the pulse of the team/game. He doesn't know how to use his players to their ability. He's still trying to run Hill on pitch plays and sweeps to the outside for example. He runs four running plays in a row inside the red zone against the 4th best run defense in the NFL. He doesn't know the QB sneak exists.

The O-line has for sure been a problem with play calling, but it's more than that. I hope he's gone.

[Murdock2420]

I'm on the fence still about Zampese. I don't know if any OC in the league could have run an effective offense with the garbage oline that started this season. I'm more willing to give Zampese another year to see if he can turn it around then I am willing to have another year of Alexander and Marvin.

[Hammerstripes]

(12-22-2016, 11:06 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: OC out of his depth. I never liked the move (never liked the Guenther move either and I'll admit that). We would see numerous head scratching plays and sometimes it seems that Zampese is afraid to let this offense go. It's also been predictable all year long. Watch some game tape. Even last week, watch how many times they motion a WR and count how many times it's a run. Just count. It'll blow your mind.

While I don't think they will fire him. I could see them demote him like they did with Ken Anderson. Mike Brown has only fired 1 OC, and that was Bob Bratkowski, and that was mainly because his hand was forced.

The first half offense has had life. Sure, there's been some poor games. But the team has scored 168 of their 288 points have come in the first half. They have the 23rd ranked offense when it comes to scoring.
In the 4th quarter, they have scored 51 points.

To better understand, the Bengals average 8.6 points per game in the 2nd half. Ranked 27th in the league.
In the 4th quarter, the Bengals average 3.6 points per game. Ranked dead last in the NFL. Browns come in at 3.9 points in the 4th.

There is NO reason an offense with Green, Eifert, Hill, Gio, Dalton, LaFell, and Boyd should only average 8.6 points in the 2nd half of a game.

That right there shows you that our offensive coordinator CAN NOT make adjustments at half time. First half we've seen some good moments. Look at the Giants, Eagles, Steelers, even the Patriots it was close at half time. But once a team figures out what our offense is doing, Zampese does not and can not adjust.

Well, there is one reason - the piss poor play of the O-line makes it damn near impossible to run the ball.

[CanadianBengal]

Wolf is spot on. The WR in motion stops at the line and the running play is to the opposite side. Happens consistently. Every week I sit and predict plays right before they are run. If I can do it then any def coord with a whole week to prepare must be bored by Tuesday afternoon.

[samhain]

Seems that most posters think it was Zampese. I'm probably 3/4 in that camp myself.

Only thing is, this team has had trouble establishing a run game most of the year. The line is bad and TBH, Hill himself leaves something to be desired.

I suppose it goes back to another radio tailing head I was listening to at the beginning of the season. Don't even remember if he was talking about the Bengals or not. He said that even a mediocre to bad defense can scheme to beat a one-dimensional offense. It's just not that hard. Just a numbers game in the secondary or in the box.

On top of it all, they seem to end up in 3rd and long a lot. MAybe that's Zampese's fault, maybe it's penalties and lack of discipline. That's not gonna get you anywhere most of the time. Unless you're Ben Roethlisberger. And you're playing the Bengals.

When the season ends, I could easily see Zampese being the sacrificial lamb for the fans if there is indeed to be one. There may not. It would be a good distraction for lack of outside FA activity and Marvin's playing out of his deal. I worry that the line may not be addressed. I don't think Whitworth leaves, but I'm not feeling great about the chances of retaining Zeitler. The personnel up front could, as inconceivable as it may seem, be even worse than this season. Maybe a new OC could be sold as the panacea.

[Thundercloud]

I have not been impressed with Zampese, but I think he'll get another year because of the new personnel which had to be integrated into the offensive scheme.

But I think the biggest failure on offensive was the failure to change the plan for the offensive line when they saw that Ced O was not going to cut it. And then going to an alternating system between Ced and Winston, and then finally, last week going to Fisher, which they should have done after four or five games if not sooner.

Where the responsibility lies for that failure may be a question. Can a new OC overrule Alexander? Where was Marvin Lewis? Alexander has always shown tremendous reluctance to correct a poor decision, apparently struggling to admit he was wrong. Somebody needed to fix that much quicker.

That offensive line was basically inoperable the way we came out at the start of the season, and it was a big part of knocking our season sideways, along with Nugent's meltdown and our failure to generate defensive pressure on the opposing quarterback.

Still, it's a glaring thing to me, that when Fisher was seen as our right tackle of the future, we still didn't just go right to him when it was obvious our plan wasn't even close to working. By the way, he's got a tough assignment coming up Saturday in Houston.

[bengalsturntup926]

Well I'm hoping on a new OC, and make sure it's a upgrade. Obviously marvin doesn't know offense, you never see him talking things over with dalton. Some head coaches do, cause they understand offense. So we need a better offensive mind .if we are sticking with Lewis and dalton. Also zamese seems to like his quarterback be a pocket passer. That's not dalton. Hue ran a lot of quick stuff and designed plays for dalton. For his strengths. They haven't tried to be a power run team since I'd say 09.

[*Go Cards*]

(12-23-2016, 12:16 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: ^What he said^ X2

I didn't like the move from the beginning either, and I still don't. Zampese just isn't an NFL caliber OC. He's a page flipper. In other words he just flips thru the pages and picks a play that hasn't been ran in awhile.

He doesn't have his finger on the pulse of the team/game. He doesn't know how to use his players to their ability. He's still trying to run Hill on pitch plays and sweeps to the outside for example. He runs four running plays in a row inside the red zone against the 4th best run defense in the NFL. He doesn't know the QB sneak exists.

The O-line has for sure been a problem with play calling, but it's more than that. I hope he's gone.

Agree except that would still be willing to keep him as a QB coach if he was willing. 

[Hoofhearted]

This teams second half struggles go beyond Zamp, but he's still out of his depth which is why we're where we are. The philosophy period needs an overhaul

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-23-2016, 12:18 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: This teams second half struggles go beyond Zamp, but he's still out of his depth which is why we're where we are. The philosophy period needs an overhaul

Right,

We need new blood, an innovator, someone who's new tricks aren't just Hue's old stuff.

[fredtoast]

The poroblem is not Zampese.

He is not calling sacks and runners getting stuffed at the line of scrimmage.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-23-2016, 01:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The poroblem is not Zampese.

He is not calling sacks and runners getting stuffed at the line of scrimmage.

True.  But, he is also not calling many plays to attack a defense, in the 2nd halves of games.

[Yojimbo]

(12-23-2016, 01:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The poroblem is not Zampese.

He is not calling sacks and runners getting stuffed at the line of scrimmage.

True, but those things happen more frequently when the defense knows what the play is going to be.

[Earendil]

(12-23-2016, 01:32 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: True, but those things happen more frequently when the defense knows what the play is going to be.

Right.  How many times have we heard after a game that the opposing defense knew exactly which plays the Bengals were going to run?

[snowy]

Among the many Bengals problems, I think Zampese's probably in over his head, but I'm willing to concede a learning curve. Besides, I'd be very surprised if the Bengals fired any coaches after the season.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-23-2016, 01:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: True.  But, he is also not calling many plays to attack a defense, in the 2nd halves of games.

Yep,

I would so love to know, as one of dozens of examples, who was responsible for calling 4 running plays in a row right before halftime in the last Steelers game in the red zone. It was like they were playing to kick the FG !

Were Eifert, Lafell, Boyd, and Core all unable to play ? Why try and hammer home a TD from the 23 with rushing plays against the 4th best run defense in the NFL ?

We put it in the endzone there and we're up 24-6, could of made all the difference in the world. But no, let's play Marv ball and use the prevent offense.