(12-28-2016, 02:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Should the Bengals be placing a high priority on drafting a TE from near the top of this year's class?
With Eifert's latest injury being recommended for back surgery, there is a chance that he may never be fully right again. I did a little reading on NFL players that have had disc surgery. Stats show that 2/3 return to the field of play, for an average of around 3 years. Average recovery time listed as approximately 9 months. However, the majority of the stats they posted were related to disc surgery in the cervical region. (closer to the neck) I also tried to find greater details of Eifert's latest injury, and all articles simply stated back injury, surgery recommended, no additional specifics.
So, with Eifert's lengthy injury history, and no guarantee that he'll ever be 100% again, what should they do? We have CJ Uzomah, who has shown himself to be serviceable. Personally, I see Uzomah as a bit of a disappointment. Given his size and athleticism, I would have expected him to emerge as a serious mismatch to opposing LBs and Safeties. Tyler Kroft seemed to look like a nifty addition his rookie year, but he has seemed to settle into his role as the 3rd TE. And then we have Ryan Hewitt. Hewitt looked like pure gold his rookie year. He was delivering crushing blocks from the FB and HB positions, as well as making some nice catches underneath the defense. Since then, his role has decreased immensely.
Bottom line is that the Bengals have no one on the roster to fill the void that the absence of a healthy Tyler Eifert creates. I don't feel like the Bengals should panic and reach for one of the top 2 or 3 of the TE class, but some of the mid round TEs are looking pretty good this year.
For example, I like Jordan Leggett from Clemson. 6'5" 258, hands like a WR, fluid route movement, and physicality to match his frame.
What do you think? Should the Bengals be looking TE?
I said it in another thread that I like the players we have here, including Hewitt, but the OC seems lost on how to use them. Red zone struggles are being addressed with two and three TE sets by other teams, while the TEs here run one route (seam) or stay in to block, which all are just average at.
It isn't the player as much as the scheme. They draft pass-catching TEs and don't send them out. Hue loved TEs. Can only imagine what he could do with Uzomah's athleticism opposite Eifert.
(12-28-2016, 02:19 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: They have a lot of needs right now, and yes TE is one of them. I'm a big fan of Eifert, but he's banged up a lot (so is Gronk btw), so we would be wise to add some better depth at the position. I agree they shouldn't reach though. Both lines are far bigger needs right now.
I don't see a first round talent in the TE class dropping to the third round where the Bengals could select one, but the Bengals will have to make a move to get a better option that Ced O for the future, a guard, a RB, and (most importantly in a class that is loaded with them) a true speed RDE.
I will wager now already that the Bengals will slide in round 1 and pick up an extra pick, and I still have no clue what they will get for AJM, but I wouldn't let him go for anything less than a VERY high second rounder.
(12-28-2016, 02:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The truth, if we can fix the O-line that will help this team the most.
I think they almost have to go OT or Guard early. Whit can man the LT spot, and Fisher can do the RT, but the only thing I want Ced O doing is bringing guys water. He single-handedly ended this season. Give him next year's camp after an off-season hopefully spent gaining strength....then you either fish or cut bait.
If they hit on Fisher, and bust on Ced O, that is about the average (50%). They can't afford to keep rolling him out there if he is an absolute liability. He was drafted late enough in the first that you can roll with him as the extra TE and nothing more until his contract ends.
The Bengals need a true mauler at RG. Not a finesse player. This team was really good in short yardage and the running game overall when they had a massive Bobbie Williams at RG.
(12-29-2016, 11:46 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think they almost have to go OT or Guard early. Whit can man the LT spot, and Fisher can do the RT, but the only thing I want Ced O doing is bringing guys water. He single-handedly ended this season. Give him next year's camp after an off-season hopefully spent gaining strength....then you either fish or cut bait.
If they hit on Fisher, and bust on Ced O, that is about the average (50%). They can't afford to keep rolling him out there if he is an absolute liability. He was drafted late enough in the first that you can roll with him as the extra TE and nothing more until his contract ends.
The Bengals need a true mauler at RG. Not a finesse player. This team was really good in short yardage and the running game overall when they had a massive Bobbie Williams at RG.
Wait, wait, wait. You're jumping the gun here. I was hoping that we could have a thread specific to OL, where everyone explains their various ideas and philosophies for improving the disaster that has become our OL. Ideas, along with prospect proposals, etc.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
Remind you of anyone? Dalton to Hikutini could be a very good combination....
I like a lot of what I saw...but he isn't super fast for a guy that seems to pass a receiver first. I would need to examine very closely his skills as a blocker. If he is just a pass-catching TE, we already have several of those...they need a guy that is a bit more versatile.
They can get a later round selection here, and go for a great blocker. They only need him to get 10 yards and move the sticks. The TE doesn't need to score every time he gets the ball, rather, he needs to be able to help in the running game and be an outlet on third down.
This OC isn't running an offense that features a lot of plays designed for TEs as the primary weapon anyway. That is a part of the reason Eifert took so many shots...the defense knew where he would be when he was in a pattern. It wasn't fooling anyone.
(12-29-2016, 11:58 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I like a lot of what I saw...but he isn't super fast for a guy that seems to pass a receiver first. I would need to examine very closely his skills as a blocker. If he is just a pass-catching TE, we already have several of those...they need a guy that is a bit more versatile.
They can get a later round selection here, and go for a great blocker. They only need him to get 10 yards and move the sticks. The TE doesn't need to score every time he gets the ball, rather, he needs to be able to help in the running game and be an outlet on third down.
This OC isn't running an offense that features a lot of plays designed for TEs as the primary weapon anyway. That is a part of the reason Eifert took so many shots...the defense knew where he would be when he was in a pattern. It wasn't fooling anyone.
Not only the things you listed, but one might also question how often he was open because defenders were distracted by watching to see if Jackson was going to take off running?
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(12-28-2016, 06:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How about Michael Roberts from Toledo. 6'4" 270, he has the classic style build of the inline blocker. He led all TEs in the nation, with 15 TD catches this season. CBS has him as a 5-6 round pick.
This makes a LOT more sense. Have a two TE set with Uzomah and Roberts. Roberts would usually stay in to help block, but occasionally flip the script and have Uzo block and roll this guy out to get 7 yards and move the chains or in the Red Zone.
This is what virtually every other team is doing with great success and the Bengals stick with 3 WR sets with guys that need time to separate. The two TE set creates match-up problems RIGHT off the LOS. The defense has to adjust to which TE is going out in a pattern. It is usually a LB that has to make that read.
Sam Wyche was the master of using his TEs to create mismatches in the defense...and as soon as the safeties started cheating up, hello deep ball to Collinsworth, Eddie Brown, or Tim McGee. God, do I miss a creative, attacking offense. Dalton would destroy teams with an offense like this. Sad thing is, they are only a good run-blocking TE away from opening a lot of these things up. That is assuming no other changes/losses on the offensive line.
(12-29-2016, 11:58 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I like a lot of what I saw...but he isn't super fast for a guy that seems to pass a receiver first. I would need to examine very closely his skills as a blocker. If he is just a pass-catching TE, we already have several of those...they need a guy that is a bit more versatile.
They can get a later round selection here, and go for a great blocker. They only need him to get 10 yards and move the sticks. The TE doesn't need to score every time he gets the ball, rather, he needs to be able to help in the running game and be an outlet on third down.
This OC isn't running an offense that features a lot of plays designed for TEs as the primary weapon anyway. That is a part of the reason Eifert took so many shots...the defense knew where he would be when he was in a pattern. It wasn't fooling anyone.
Undoubtedly he is not the best TE in the draft, but like I said, he can probably be had in the 3rd or 4th, and when someone takes him it is going to be a steal. I don't think we need to get a TE in the 1st or 2nd, there are too many other glaring needs...ie OT and Center.
(12-29-2016, 12:05 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: This makes a LOT more sense. Have a two TE set with Uzomah and Roberts. Roberts would usually stay in to help block, but occasionally flip the script and have Uzo block and roll this guy out to get 7 yards and move the chains or in the Red Zone.
This is what virtually every other team is doing with great success and the Bengals stick with 3 WR sets with guys that need time to separate. The two TE set creates match-up problems RIGHT off the LOS. The defense has to adjust to which TE is going out in a pattern. It is usually a LB that has to make that read.
Sam Wyche was the master of using his TEs to create mismatches in the defense...and as soon as the safeties started cheating up, hello deep ball to Collinsworth, Eddie Brown, or Tim McGee. God, do I miss a creative, attacking offense. Dalton would destroy teams with an offense like this. Sad thing is, they are only a good run-blocking TE away from opening a lot of these things up. That is assuming no other changes/losses on the offensive line.
I'll admit, I didn't really watch any UT games this season. However, a quick stat check shows that they were 6th in the Nation in total offense, averaging around 520 yds and 38 pts/game. They averaged 195 yds rushing per game, so I would surmise that in addition to catching 15 TDs, Roberts also knows how to block.
A quick look showed no actual pro scouting reports on Roberts. But, this is what Matt Miller of Bleacher Report has to say about him.
A late addition to my tight end rankings, Michael Roberts is a player I'm falling in love with the more I watch.
An East-West Shrine Game invite, Roberts is a massive man at 6'5" and 270 pounds. As only a one-year starter, he has raw traits but impresses as a three-down tight end capable of lining up on the end of the offensive line or flexed out. And unlike many top tight ends in previous classes, Roberts can actually block well in the run game.
With 16 touchdowns on the season, Roberts emerged as a true playmaker for Toledo. His size and production are tough to overlook now.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(12-28-2016, 10:08 PM)Derrick Wrote: Actually there are three TEs that could be utilized in various combinations, but these dumbass coaches don't have a clue how to do it. So why get another TE? Unless he is way better than the last two drafted. Geez
(12-28-2016, 06:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How about Michael Roberts from Toledo. 6'4" 270, he has the classic style build of the inline blocker. He led all TEs in the nation, with 15 TD catches this season. CBS has him as a 5-6 round pick.
If we looking for a mixture of blocking and catching guy from Louisville and Jordan leggett if purely catching I'd honestly role with Bucky Hodges. Dude is 6'7 or 6'6 straight up jimmy graham.
It's so frustrating with Tyler because the guy is truly a difference maker...unlike any TE we've had in many many years. 18 TDs in his last 19 games. Yet the guy is injury prone at possibly the toughest position in football. TEs are asked to run like WRs and block like a tackle - against bigger guys. You add that with "injury prone" and you get Eifert.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
Remind you of anyone? Dalton to Hikutini could be a very good combination....
(12-28-2016, 06:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How about Michael Roberts from Toledo. 6'4" 270, he has the classic style build of the inline blocker. He led all TEs in the nation, with 15 TD catches this season. CBS has him as a 5-6 round pick.
Really like both of these guys, damn fine year to grab a mid round TE.
Hikutini reminds me of Eifert, good route running, high points the ball, good hands, nice after the catch and nice size...
Any other draft you think this guy would be a late first early second rounder.
Must be a bad blocker or something? I bet he benefited from his running QB as well. Heisman winner aint no punk.
(12-29-2016, 02:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Really like both of these guys, damn fine year to grab a mid round TE.
Hikutini reminds me of Eifert, good route running, high points the ball, good hands, nice after the catch and nice size...
Any other draft you think this guy would be a late first early second rounder.
Must be a bad blocker or something? I bet he benefited from his running QB as well. Heisman winner aint no punk.
From what I've watched he didn't block a whole lot but he wasn't awful. Thing about most of these college tight ends they go unguarded legit a lot of the times almost like colleges don't guard them. I think he's straight would be a good addition to the team. But also I havent kept up much with Tony Kroft is he not a capable #2?
(12-29-2016, 02:54 PM)Clappington Wrote: From what I've watched he didn't block a whole lot but he wasn't awful. Thing about most of these college tight ends they go unguarded legit a lot of the times almost like colleges don't guard them. I think he's straight would be a good addition to the team. But also I havent kept up much with Tony Kroft is he not a capable #2?
Cool, sure looks like a damn fine pick in the mid rounds if he is there.
Tyler Kroft i think you meant didn't play nearly as well this year as i figured but he is still a solid blocker and i think if used right could still be good in the passing game. Uzomah is big, fast and talented but he dropped a lot of balls and doesn't have that want from what i have seen.
Another talented TE like Hikutini might push them at the very least or he could overtake atleast one of them.
We need a new TE coach to coach these guys up though. Hayes could definately be upgraded.
(12-29-2016, 02:54 PM)Clappington Wrote: From what I've watched he didn't block a whole lot but he wasn't awful. Thing about most of these college tight ends they go unguarded legit a lot of the times almost like colleges don't guard them. I think he's straight would be a good addition to the team. But also I havent kept up much with Tony Kroft is he not a capable #2?
I don't think that college DCs leave them unguarded by design. I think that it is rather a byproduct of an offense having a QB that can take it to the house, on his feet, at any moment of the game. I will say this, Hikutine and Jackson have great chemistry. It was obvious from watching a few L'ville games that they would use a few Jackson runs to draw defenders in tight, then exploit the wide open throws to Hikutini. Well designed, and great utilization of a sure handed weapon.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(12-29-2016, 03:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Cool, sure looks like a damn fine pick in the mid rounds if he is there.
Tyler Kroft i think you meant didn't play nearly as well this year as i figured but he is still a solid blocker and i think if used right could still be good in the passing game. Uzomah is big, fast and talented but he dropped a lot of balls and doesn't have that want from what i have seen.
Another talented TE like Hikutini might push them at the very least or he could overtake atleast one of them.
We need a new TE coach to coach these guys up though. Hayes could definately be upgraded.
I knew as I was typing tony that didn't sound right lol. But yea Cj hands are questionable he needs to work on that. I see a lot of Jordan reed in him but he can't catch like him
(12-29-2016, 03:25 PM)Clappington Wrote: I knew as I was typing tony that didn't sound right lol. But yea Cj hands are questionable he needs to work on that. I see a lot of Jordan reed in him but he can't catch like him
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I could see that if his hands improved immensely and improved on his routes under Eifert who is a great route runner.
Uzi has great athletcism but man Jordan Reed might be the best TE in the league right now since Gronk and Eifert are always injured.
Both Kroft and Uzo are as athletically gifted as any TE in this year's draft. I say we keep working on them instead of investinbg another high pick on TE.
We do need to draft another TE, but not until the 4th round or so. I am afraid Eifert will never be dependable for a full season, but right now we have much bigger needs than another TE high in the draft.
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
So why get another TE? Unless he is way better than the last two drafted. Geez
