Tom Brady and Andy Dalton against Texans

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-16-2017, 01:47 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. The Bengals ranked 27th in yards per carry in 2011. The run game sucked. Plus in the game we are discussing, Benson had a whopping 12 yards on 8 touches. What an amazing weapon, eh? Dalton actually outgained Benson by 3 yards on the ground. 

2. The only people who think Gresh was ever a top of the line TE is you and afew of his bigger fans. He ranked 18th among TEs in receiving yards in the year we're discussing.

3. Jerome Simpson? Psst. If you're going to pretend to be objective, you shouldn't promote Simpson as a weapon. 

4. I suppose Leonard was a solid change of pace guy. I would never have called him a huge asset, but at least he played better than Benson in the playoff game, although that didn't require much.

5. And yeah the Texans weren't #1 in defense. They were #2. Y'all should eat that and move the goal posts to something else.
_______________

And none of this is even touching on Marvin Lewis, his 0-7 playoff record, or how all 4 QBs have played terribly and led horrific offensive performances. I choose not to think it's a coincidence. You choose to blame the QBs. Except McCarron I guess. We certainly don't want to compare his first playoff game to Dak's, right?

Good points, all...the ironic thing is that those were Dalton's stats from THIS year...the same team that they played three weeks prior to New England.  And they were the #1 defense....

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-16-2017, 03:01 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Dalton last year up until the thumb injury was playing just as good if not better than Brady and Rodgers who besides
Matt Ryan this year are the two best QB's in the league right now. Dalton can be just as good as Tom Brady if he has a
good O-line a running game and all of his weapons healthy.

Dalton is a better deep passer than Brady believe it or not. Brady is a better dink and dunk passer and has the best HC
maybe ever. I do think that Brady has that killer instinct that Dalton needs to develop though.

To act like comparing Dalton to Brady is an insult to Brady is foolish to me. We can compare them in the regular season.

Just not in the Playoffs, cause we have a shitty coach and our whole team plays bad in the playoffs except our Defense
last year in the Steeler game.

Love all you have here, but you are going to get killed for it....even though it is dead on.

[Hoofhearted]

(01-16-2017, 08:39 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: He did.  And Tom Brady also blocked for himself, caught those passes, and called those plays.  Did it all by himself.  

What are we debating here? That the Pats have a superior roster, coaching staff and just better overall organization (GM, owner, etc). That's not very debatable; Pats win hands down. But mentioning AD in the same breath as the GOAT is just silly. It really is, i am sorry. I don't like Brady, but I respect the hell out of him for what he is: a once in a lifetime QB that i've had the pleasure of watching. 

I don't dislike AD either; I'm just saying lets not blow this up into something that isn't even in the same stratosphere. 

[Hoofhearted]

(01-16-2017, 03:01 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Dalton last year up until the thumb injury was playing just as good if not better than Brady and Rodgers who besides
Matt Ryan this year are the two best QB's in the league right now. Dalton can be just as good as Tom Brady if he has a
good O-line a running game and all of his weapons healthy.

Dalton is a better deep passer than Brady believe it or not. Brady is a better dink and dunk passer and has the best HC
maybe ever. I do think that Brady has that killer instinct that Dalton needs to develop though.

To act like comparing Dalton to Brady is an insult to Brady is foolish to me. We can compare them in the regular season.

Just not in the Playoffs, cause we have a shitty coach and our whole team plays bad in the playoffs except our Defense
last year in the Steeler game.

Agree with some of this, Nate. Very well said, especially the bolded, which is without question the number one thing I wish AD would develop.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-16-2017, 08:44 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Ugh.  So many things wrong with post.  Where to begin?

Try and start somewhere...

Okay, i will help you out, last season when Dalton's O-line was playing well and we started out 8-0, who was the
better QB at that point in the year? Dalton or Brady? I will argue Dalton was and the only QB's who were as good
as Dalton were Newton and Palmer at that point.

Brady was better this year though cause we had a shit O-line and our weapons were injured all year pretty much.

(01-16-2017, 09:10 PM)Von Cichlid Wrote: I was going to call BS on this but looking at regular season completions of over 40 yds since 2011, Dalton has 68 whereas Brady has 58.  I would not have guessed that.  However, one does have to consider the fact that Dalton had AJ Green all those years and Brady did not have Moss in those same years.

Good job looking at the numbers that some on here will not do when comparing Dalton and Brady in the regular season.

True about having Green who is a great deep threat. I still believe when watching the two Dalton has a better deep ball.

Brady is great over the middle, maybe the best ever, but his deep ball is not his greatest strength.

[THE PISTONS]

Anyone notice how 3 Top 5 NFL QB's are in the final 4 and 1 Top 10 QB?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-17-2017, 04:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Anyone notice how 3 Top 5 NFL QB's are in the final 4 and 1 Top 10 QB?

Which one is only top 10?

Far as i saw this year Ryan was MVP.

Rodgers wasn't playing well until the middle of the year when he took off.

[THE PISTONS]

(01-17-2017, 04:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Which one is only top 10?

Far as i saw this year Ryan was MVP.

Rodgers wasn't playing well until the middle of the year when he took off.

I'd say Ryan is Top 10 most years. This year, he's definately MVP worthy.

[Jpoore]

(01-17-2017, 10:54 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: What are we debating here? That the Pats have a superior roster, coaching staff and just better overall organization (GM, owner, etc). That's not very debatable; Pats win hands down. But mentioning AD in the same breath as the GOAT is just silly. It really is, i am sorry. I don't like Brady, but I respect the hell out of him for what he is: a once in a lifetime QB that i've had the pleasure of watching. 

I don't dislike AD either; I'm just saying lets not blow this up into something that isn't even in the same stratosphere. 

Sorry but Peyton is goat. Brady would not be a top 5 of all time qb if he was anywhere else  it's all about scheme their second and third qbs went 3-1 without a lot of top weapons just like Brady does Bellevue k and his scheme is goat not Brady.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-17-2017, 10:54 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: What are we debating here? That the Pats have a superior roster, coaching staff and just better overall organization (GM, owner, etc). That's not very debatable; Pats win hands down. But mentioning AD in the same breath as the GOAT is just silly. It really is, i am sorry. I don't like Brady, but I respect the hell out of him for what he is: a once in a lifetime QB that i've had the pleasure of watching. 

I don't dislike AD either; I'm just saying lets not blow this up into something that isn't even in the same stratosphere. 

It is just silly, huh?  You acknowledge that Brady has had a superior roster, coaching, and GM.  You would probably agree that for the last 6 years, the AFC North is a much tougher conference than the AFC Least.  Yet, Dalton has very similar numbers at this point in their careers. 

I would also ask what happened to the Golden Boy the year he threw up a QB rating of 83?  He was pretty experienced.  Dalton hasn't had a year like that.  Was it a lack of weapons?  He didn't have time to throw?  Hmmmm.  

[Hoofhearted]

(01-18-2017, 06:12 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Sorry but Peyton is goat. Brady would not be a top 5 of all time qb if he was anywhere else  it's all about scheme their second and third qbs went 3-1 without a lot of top weapons just like Brady does Bellevue k and his scheme is goat not Brady.

Right, because schemes go out on the field and play.

[Hoofhearted]

(01-18-2017, 09:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: It is just silly, huh?  You acknowledge that Brady has had a superior roster, coaching, and GM.  You would probably agree that for the last 6 years, the AFC North is a much tougher conference than the AFC Least.  Yet, Dalton has very similar numbers at this point in their careers. 

I would also ask what happened to the Golden Boy the year he threw up a QB rating of 83?  He was pretty experienced.  Dalton hasn't had a year like that.  Was it a lack of weapons?  He didn't have time to throw?  Hmmmm.  

lets get one thing out of the way: both these guys are professional, starting quarterbacks. both are immensely talented and the difference between the two as far as physical attributes is probably not that great; both can sling it with power and accuracy. Sure one probably has a little more zip or a better deep pass, but the difference probably isn't miles apart.

But the biggest and widest margin of talent I notice is between the ears. 

You're judged by championships and what you do when all the chips are on the table. AD has none and Brady has many. Add in the fact that AD's postseason numbers are laughable, it's really not even a contest of who the better QB is in that regard. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-18-2017, 09:59 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: lets get one thing out of the way: both these guys are professional, starting quarterbacks. both are immensely talented and the difference between the two as far as physical attributes is probably not that great; both can sling it with power and accuracy. Sure one probably has a little more zip or a better deep pass, but the difference probably isn't miles apart.

But the biggest and widest margin of talent I notice is between the ears. 

You're judged by championships and what you do when all the chips are on the table. AD has none and Brady has many. Add in the fact that AD's postseason numbers are laughable, it's really not even a contest of who the better QB is in that regard. 

Your first paragraph sounds like you are mentioning them in the same breath, which counters your previous statements that it is "silly".

I know very well that Dalton hasn't produced on the biggest stage, but I would add that his coaches, defense, weapons, etc. didn't as well where Tom (who was a glorified game manager in those early super bowls) has a more complete performance from his team.  

Nowhere did I say Dalton was better than Brady, especially in the postseason, but the point I was contending was that it isn't right to say they can't be mentioned in the same breath.  That's all.  Look no further than Aaron Rogers:  one super bowl despite being one of the best, or maybe THE best QB of all time...his team around him didn't perform up to the competition.  It takes a whole team.  No team has won a Super Bowl simply because they had a great QB.  Ditto Marino.  It takes a team.  

[Jpoore]

(01-18-2017, 09:46 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Right, because schemes go out on the field and play.

a superior scheme can beat a superior team any day 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-18-2017, 11:27 AM)Jpoore Wrote: a superior scheme can beat a superior team any day 

See Wyche, Sam. :andy:

[seahawkscheat]

aj mccarron and aaron rodgers are pretty similar as well and jeff driskel matt ryan are 2 peas in a pod

[grampahol]

I don't know that there is any team sport where there isn't at least one outstanding player that can carry an entire season on their shoulders.. Let me rephrase.. if you're team has 10 lousy players and just one really great player your team is doomed. It's the same with any team sport. In baseball you could have one guy who hits .500 for the entire season, but if everyone else hits .200 or lower and every pitcher has an era over 5.00 you're not going to get in the world series, you're the Cincinnati Reds. 
Dalton is just fine, but the team as a whole isn't up to snuff. Had Brady played for the Bengals this past season instead of NE the results would have been very similar and if Dalton played for NE he would have been the next coming of Brady.

[*bfine32*]

I understand that folks in here like to think themselves as footbal savy and I see a lot saying it is not Brady; it is the system. Do they think the Patriots are dumb? If a QB that historically finishes mid-pack in QB ratings can do what Brady can do in New England then why do they pay him over $20 mil a year?

They have shown they are not shy about letting big names walk. Why didn't they keep that winner Matt Cassel, or Hoyer, or Mallet? Why did they extend Brady when they have Jimmy G in house?

Folks saying Andy could do what Brady can do in NE or Brady would do no better than Andy here are doing nothing more than making things up. It makes it hard to take their football acumen seriously.

[THE PISTONS]

(01-18-2017, 11:54 AM)grampahol Wrote: I don't know that there is any team sport where there isn't at least one outstanding player that can carry an entire season on their shoulders.. Let me rephrase.. if you're team has 10 lousy players and just one really great player your team is doomed. It's the same with any team sport. In baseball you could have one guy who hits .500 for the entire season, but if everyone else hits .200 or lower and every pitcher has an era over 5.00 you're not going to get in the world series, you're the Cincinnati Reds. 
Dalton is just fine, but the team as a whole isn't up to snuff. Had Brady played for the Bengals this past season instead of NE the results would have been very similar and if Dalton played for NE he would have been the next coming of Brady.

In the NBA...the Cavs were a deep lottery team...then Lebron came back and they played for the championship and won it. That's the lone outlier that I can think of.

[Rhinocero23]

(01-18-2017, 01:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I understand that folks in here like to think themselves as footbal savy and I see a lot saying it is not Brady; it is the system. Do they think the Patriots are dumb? If a QB that historically finishes mid-pack in QB ratings can do what Brady can do in New England then why do they pay him over $20 mil a year?

They have shown they are not shy about letting big names walk. Why didn't they keep that winner Matt Cassel, or Hoyer, or Mallet? Why did they extend Brady when they have Jimmy G in house?

Folks saying Andy could do what Brady can do in NE or Brady would do no better than Andy here are doing nothing more than making things up. It makes it hard to take their football acumen seriously.

So true!!! It is like speaking with a toddler. The funny part is most of these posters are pretty sharp on the topic of football, they are just Dalton dumb. They are hyper critical of all other QB's but don't hold Andy accountable for anything. They fail to see they win the argument if the stance is "Andy is an adequate starter that is cable of taking a solid team deep into the playoffs". Instead they want to make RIDICULOUS claim that he is a top tier QB...lol!

I do respect their loyalty however. These are the people you would want in a no win situation...they are the fan equivalent to the band on the titanic. The best part is they have no idea why people think they are so out of touch.