Too much faith in Burfict?

[Aquapod770]

(01-17-2017, 01:22 AM)J24 Wrote: Except he is not one of the best LBers maybe most overrated but not one of the best. The guy can't cover anyone man to man anymore which is a problem considering that we play in a passing league. If it were 2005 then I would have no problem with him but it's not it's 2017 and we need a guy at LB that can cover much more ground than him.

And yet he's still our best cover LBer 

[Hammerstripes]

(01-17-2017, 01:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'd like to see Kiko Alonso brought in if we're looking for outside FAs around their prime. To me, that would solidify the LBs and allow the Bengals to focus elsewhere in the draft.

And how much are you willing to pay for him?  He's not going to come cheap - free agents in their prime never do.

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-17-2017, 01:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'd like to see Kiko Alonso brought in if we're looking for outside FAs around their prime. To me, that would solidify the LBs and allow the Bengals to focus elsewhere in the draft.

That was who i wanted until i found out he will be a restricted free agent. He had a non football injury so one of his years didnt count. And since he was a 2nd round pick there is no way he is getting out of miami.

[*bfine32*]

I would love for someone else to takeover the D and just let Burfict play. He needs a leader to reign him in every so often. I'd rather sign a mature, not over the hill MLB than go high in the draft. Someone like Dont'a Hightower or maybe Manti Te'o

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-17-2017, 11:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I would love for someone else to takeover the D and just let Burfict play. He needs a leader to reign him in every so often. I'd rather sign a mature, not over the hill MLB than go high in the draft. Someone like Dont'a Hightower or maybe Manti Te'o

I think that was part of the idea behind the aj hawk and dansby signings. But he is just too much of an alpha. Though his mischief was waaaay down this year. 

Ive thought about TeO. Underperforming early round pick that will come at a discount could be our guy.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-18-2017, 12:29 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I think that was part of the idea behind the aj hawk and dansby signings. But he is just too much of an alpha. Though his mischief was waaaay down this year. 

Ive thought about TeO. Underperforming early round pick that will come at a discount could be our guy.

Te'o is an interesting option. He definitely fits the description of what this team looks for in a MIKE. He'll be 26 this coming season, so a 3-4 year deal would make sense.
What kind of discount would he have though? Vincent Rey's level of contract (3 years, $10-11 mill)? Or Maualuga's level (3 years, $15 mill)?

I would think it would take Maualuga's level contract to land him. Believe it or not, Maualuga is tied for 12th highest paid ILB on an average salary per year basis. That seems about right for Te'o too given how he's not dominated at ILB yet.

[Whatever]

(01-17-2017, 11:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I would love for someone else to takeover the D and just let Burfict play. He needs a leader to reign him in every so often. I'd rather sign a mature, not over the hill MLB than go high in the draft. Someone like Dont'a Hightower or maybe Manti Te'o

I remember a story from a few months back where Roethlisberger said that the players he knew on the Bengals were sick of Burfict and his antics.  I take that with a grain of salt, given the source, but the fact that our other vocal leader on D, Jones, is a head case really makes it seem like there isn't anybody who can control him.  Of course, Marvin and Guenther should be doing that.o

[grampahol]

Can we stop pretending that we need Fred McMurray in My Three Sons to play Mr Upstanding Citizen to play linebacker ?
Why not Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland? They would make us seem soooooo nice.. lol

[Buckeyes420]

(01-21-2017, 01:14 PM)grampahol Wrote: Can we stop pretending that we need Fred McMurray in My Three Sons to play Mr Upstanding Citizen to play linebacker ?
Why not Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland? They would make us seem soooooo nice.. lol

Who cares if they are serial murderers.If they play good football sign me up,no one ever got a contract just for being a good person.

[Burma]

(01-16-2017, 07:45 PM)J24 Wrote: An extension? The guy has Multiple concussions, a microfractur surgery on one of his knees,  shows up overweight, and is always targeted by refs. I think we should consider trading him instead of signing him long-term.

(01-16-2017, 09:44 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Yet he is one of the best players on the field every time he suits up. 

In order to get better at LB, trading away one of the best in the league who is in his prime is the exact opposite of what you would want to do. 

I was thinking about this earlier tonight.   Burfict is a difference maker, and when he wants to be, a top 3 or 4 LB in the league.  However, 2017 is Burfict's last under contract.  He is going to get paid, either here or somewhere else.  Assuming he gets a comparable contract to Luke Kuechly's we are talking about a 5 year, $60-65 mill contract coming in around a yearly cap # of 12-15 mill.  That's a huge contract for the Bengals, HUGE.  The Bengals currently have 2 guys who have a yearly cap number comparable; Dalton at $15.7 mill and AJ at $13.5 mill.  Not even Geno (10.6) has that kind of cap number and I would take him 10 times out of 10 over Burfict if i needed to pick a player for my Defense.

So I think it's safe to say it's a bit unlikely the Bengals are going to pony up that kind of cash.  But if they do it's going to come at the expense of improving the team this free agency period.  You have to think they are going to take a huge chunk out of that nearly $50 mill in cap space the Bengals have and put it away towards a new contract for Burfict.  Money that culd have been spent resigning Zeitler AND adding someone else.  I think that is a terrible mistake.  This team is built around Dalton and AJ. Their window is the Bengals window and we are in the back half of that window.  The team doesn't have the luxury of not getting better now in the hopes that they can keep 1 player later. And there is nothing to make me think Burfict is a certain resign.  Marvin might be on his way out.  He was Marvin's guy.  Without that emotional anchor I could easily see him following the best offer and leaving the Bengals a season behind in their rebuilding efforts.

Addition by substraction is real.  This would be a prime example of it.  The Bengals are not just 1 player away from a Superbowl. They are not guaranteed to even resign Burfict.  Assuming the Bengal's could find a trading partner for Burfict the would even profit cap wise. Trading Burfict before this draft would only be $775,000 dead money for next season and would SAVE the Bengals @ $4 mill this season. 

Cutting Muauluga, Pacman, and trading AJ, and Burfict would put this Bengals at over $64 mill in cap space.  How would you feel about trading 1 Burfict for a long term Zeitler deal and stealing Ricky Wagner, a good youngish RT, away from the Ravens? and still having money for extensions of others and some more free agents.  That is what I mean by addition by subtraction.

And to head off the inevitable "you can't count on a draft pick to replace Burfict" defense... prove to me, right now, that you can count on Burfict not getting hurt and missing the season.  You can't, shit happens.  You do your research, plan accordingly and hope for the best. 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/luke-kuechly-9819/
http://overthecap.com/calculator/cincinnati-bengals/

(01-17-2017, 02:03 PM)Whatever Wrote: Nobody will trade for him, between his injury issues and the fact that he's a PR nightmare.  We aren't in a position to trade him, either, as bad as the LB corps is.  However, next year is a contract year, and you have to be reticent about giving him a big money contract

I think you under estimate how much interest he would have.  The Cowboys would be a great landing spot for Burfict in a trade.  As a Cowboy he get's an auto pass for his behavior and the Cowboys get a true difference maker in a LB core that has none.  
The Cowboys are picking 28th and I would take that pick plus La'el Collins from them and feel pretty damn good about the deal. You could turn that 28th into Zach Cunningham and then Pick up Raekwon McMillan in the 2nd. That's worth the risk to me.

[Jpoore]

(01-22-2017, 05:02 AM)Burma Wrote: I was thinking about this earlier tonight.   Burfict is a difference maker, and when he wants to be, a top 3 or 4 LB in the league.  However, 2017 is Burfict's last under contract.  He is going to get paid, either here or somewhere else.  Assuming he gets a comparable contract to Luke Kuechly's we are talking about a 5 year, $60-65 mill contract coming in around a yearly cap # of 12-15 mill.  That's a huge contract for the Bengals, HUGE.  The Bengals currently have 2 guys who have a yearly cap number comparable; Dalton at $15.7 mill and AJ at $13.5 mill.  Not even Geno (10.6) has that kind of cap number and I would take him 10 times out of 10 over Burfict if i needed to pick a player for my Defense.

So I think it's safe to say it's a bit unlikely the Bengals are going to pony up that kind of cash.  But if they do it's going to come at the expense of improving the team this free agency period.  You have to think they are going to take a huge chunk out of that nearly $50 mill in cap space the Bengals have and put it away towards a new contract for Burfict.  Money that culd have been spent resigning Zeitler AND adding someone else.  I think that is a terrible mistake.  This team is built around Dalton and AJ. Their window is the Bengals window and we are in the back half of that window.  The team doesn't have the luxury of not getting better now in the hopes that they can keep 1 player later. And there is nothing to make me think Burfict is a certain resign.  Marvin might be on his way out.  He was Marvin's guy.  Without that emotional anchor I could easily see him following the best offer and leaving the Bengals a season behind in their rebuilding efforts.

Addition by substraction is real.  This would be a prime example of it.  The Bengals are not just 1 player away from a Superbowl. They are not guaranteed to even resign Burfict.  Assuming the Bengal's could find a trading partner for Burfict the would even profit cap wise. Trading Burfict before this draft would only be $775,000 dead money for next season and would SAVE the Bengals @ $4 mill this season. 

Cutting Muauluga, Pacman, and trading AJ, and Burfict would put this Bengals at over $64 mill in cap space.  How would you feel about trading 1 Burfict for a long term Zeitler deal and stealing Ricky Wagner, a good youngish RT, away from the Ravens? and still having money for extensions of others and some more free agents.  That is what I mean by addition by subtraction.

And to head off the inevitable "you can't count on a draft pick to replace Burfict" defense... prove to me, right now, that you can count on Burfict not getting hurt and missing the season.  You can't, shit happens.  You do your research, plan accordingly and hope for the best. 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/luke-kuechly-9819/
http://overthecap.com/calculator/cincinnati-bengals/



I think you under estimate how much interest he would have.  The Cowboys would be a great landing spot for Burfict in a trade.  As a Cowboy he get's an auto pass for his behavior and the Cowboys get a true difference maker in a LB core that has none.  
The Cowboys are picking 28th and I would take that pick plus La'el Collins from them and feel pretty damn good about the deal. You could turn that 28th into Zach Cunningham and then Pick up Raekwon McMillan in the 2nd.  That's worth the risk to me.

it's a good argument it really is but imo he stays . I think he signs for 7-8 million a year. I do not understand why people say he's Marvin's guy he's Paulie's guy. He has a guaranteed job as soon as his playing career is over as a coach according to Paulie G. Paulie loves the guy always talks about him and burfict was watching the title game talking about players with paulie  g not Marvin.  But you're talking about a guy that has had multiple concussions a microfracture surgery and by all accounts all teams hate. Also he is one dirty play away from potentially being suspended for an entire season. So no he won't garner much interest and as long as paulie g is there burfict is there.and as far as the cowboys thing they draft a top 5 lb in Jaylon Smith to be the guy. They're not giving up on him so easy. We have plenty of cap space to sign everyone. If zeitler Whit and Dre k sign for let's say 27 million combined, even though I think it will be more like 25 let's go with 27. You have cut malaluga, tj Johnson, and pat Sims, u have about 27 million left. Resign peerman for 1 million, rex if possible for 4, and peko for 2, u still have 20 million left. That plenty especially since we don't have any notable free agents next year besides eifert and burfict. And as far as andy/aj window closing, it's why I have been all in on drafting Williams due to fact that when Williams deal is up aj will be 34 and Williams would be our new number 1. But in conclusion we have more than enough space to sign everybody. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(01-22-2017, 05:02 AM)Burma Wrote: I was thinking about this earlier tonight.   Burfict is a difference maker, and when he wants to be, a top 3 or 4 LB in the league.  However, 2017 is Burfict's last under contract.  He is going to get paid, either here or somewhere else.  Assuming he gets a comparable contract to Luke Kuechly's we are talking about a 5 year, $60-65 mill contract coming in around a yearly cap # of 12-15 mill.  That's a huge contract for the Bengals, HUGE.  The Bengals currently have 2 guys who have a yearly cap number comparable; Dalton at $15.7 mill and AJ at $13.5 mill.  Not even Geno (10.6) has that kind of cap number and I would take him 10 times out of 10 over Burfict if i needed to pick a player for my Defense.

So I think it's safe to say it's a bit unlikely the Bengals are going to pony up that kind of cash.  But if they do it's going to come at the expense of improving the team this free agency period.  You have to think they are going to take a huge chunk out of that nearly $50 mill in cap space the Bengals have and put it away towards a new contract for Burfict.  Money that culd have been spent resigning Zeitler AND adding someone else.  I think that is a terrible mistake.  This team is built around Dalton and AJ. Their window is the Bengals window and we are in the back half of that window.  The team doesn't have the luxury of not getting better now in the hopes that they can keep 1 player later. And there is nothing to make me think Burfict is a certain resign.  Marvin might be on his way out.  He was Marvin's guy.  Without that emotional anchor I could easily see him following the best offer and leaving the Bengals a season behind in their rebuilding efforts.

Addition by substraction is real.  This would be a prime example of it.  The Bengals are not just 1 player away from a Superbowl. They are not guaranteed to even resign Burfict.  Assuming the Bengal's could find a trading partner for Burfict the would even profit cap wise. Trading Burfict before this draft would only be $775,000 dead money for next season and would SAVE the Bengals @ $4 mill this season. 

Cutting Muauluga, Pacman, and trading AJ, and Burfict would put this Bengals at over $64 mill in cap space.  How would you feel about trading 1 Burfict for a long term Zeitler deal and stealing Ricky Wagner, a good youngish RT, away from the Ravens? and still having money for extensions of others and some more free agents.  That is what I mean by addition by subtraction.

And to head off the inevitable "you can't count on a draft pick to replace Burfict" defense... prove to me, right now, that you can count on Burfict not getting hurt and missing the season.  You can't, shit happens.  You do your research, plan accordingly and hope for the best. 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/luke-kuechly-9819/
http://overthecap.com/calculator/cincinnati-bengals/



I think you under estimate how much interest he would have.  The Cowboys would be a great landing spot for Burfict in a trade.  As a Cowboy he get's an auto pass for his behavior and the Cowboys get a true difference maker in a LB core that has none.  
The Cowboys are picking 28th and I would take that pick plus La'el Collins from them and feel pretty damn good about the deal. You could turn that 28th into Zach Cunningham and then Pick up Raekwon McMillan in the 2nd.  That's worth the risk to me.

I like your ideas to re-sign Zeitler and trade Burfict. I would like to sign Wagner, also. 

[Whatever]

(01-22-2017, 05:02 AM)Burma Wrote: I was thinking about this earlier tonight.   Burfict is a difference maker, and when he wants to be, a top 3 or 4 LB in the league.  However, 2017 is Burfict's last under contract.  He is going to get paid, either here or somewhere else.  Assuming he gets a comparable contract to Luke Kuechly's we are talking about a 5 year, $60-65 mill contract coming in around a yearly cap # of 12-15 mill.  That's a huge contract for the Bengals, HUGE.  The Bengals currently have 2 guys who have a yearly cap number comparable; Dalton at $15.7 mill and AJ at $13.5 mill.  Not even Geno (10.6) has that kind of cap number and I would take him 10 times out of 10 over Burfict if i needed to pick a player for my Defense.

So I think it's safe to say it's a bit unlikely the Bengals are going to pony up that kind of cash.  But if they do it's going to come at the expense of improving the team this free agency period.  You have to think they are going to take a huge chunk out of that nearly $50 mill in cap space the Bengals have and put it away towards a new contract for Burfict.  Money that culd have been spent resigning Zeitler AND adding someone else.  I think that is a terrible mistake.  This team is built around Dalton and AJ. Their window is the Bengals window and we are in the back half of that window.  The team doesn't have the luxury of not getting better now in the hopes that they can keep 1 player later. And there is nothing to make me think Burfict is a certain resign.  Marvin might be on his way out.  He was Marvin's guy.  Without that emotional anchor I could easily see him following the best offer and leaving the Bengals a season behind in their rebuilding efforts.

Addition by substraction is real.  This would be a prime example of it.  The Bengals are not just 1 player away from a Superbowl. They are not guaranteed to even resign Burfict.  Assuming the Bengal's could find a trading partner for Burfict the would even profit cap wise. Trading Burfict before this draft would only be $775,000 dead money for next season and would SAVE the Bengals @ $4 mill this season. 

Cutting Muauluga, Pacman, and trading AJ, and Burfict would put this Bengals at over $64 mill in cap space.  How would you feel about trading 1 Burfict for a long term Zeitler deal and stealing Ricky Wagner, a good youngish RT, away from the Ravens? and still having money for extensions of others and some more free agents.  That is what I mean by addition by subtraction.

And to head off the inevitable "you can't count on a draft pick to replace Burfict" defense... prove to me, right now, that you can count on Burfict not getting hurt and missing the season.  You can't, shit happens.  You do your research, plan accordingly and hope for the best. 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/luke-kuechly-9819/
http://overthecap.com/calculator/cincinnati-bengals/



I think you under estimate how much interest he would have.  The Cowboys would be a great landing spot for Burfict in a trade.  As a Cowboy he get's an auto pass for his behavior and the Cowboys get a true difference maker in a LB core that has none.  
The Cowboys are picking 28th and I would take that pick plus La'el Collins from them and feel pretty damn good about the deal. You could turn that 28th into Zach Cunningham and then Pick up Raekwon McMillan in the 2nd.  That's worth the risk to me.

Don't get me wrong, I would be all for trading the guy if we can get a 1st plus a player for him.  I just don't see anyone playing up that much.  You make valid points about not being able to trust the guy, though.  You have to figure that being in a contract year, he will probably show up in shape and have a monster year to get that big $ contract, and probably netting us a third round comp pick in the process.  Realistically, a third and some cap room this year isn't a bad deal.

[NATI BENGALS]

Wont quote since Burma's post was quoted 3 times in a row.

There are no guarantees any player can play a full season injuries are a part of the game. There are no guarantees a draft pick will even pan out. A know commodity is much more valuable than an unknown.

Our D has carried this team not the offense. We are not blowing people out with a high powered O. We play good defense and hope our offense can score enough points to win. Everybody on the team will tell you Burfict is the heart and soul of the D.

Trading away the heart and soul of our teams strength so we can pay a guard as much money as Geno Atkins is bonkers.

I see no reason to think about spending big bucks on Wagner. If the Ravens with their shit line are open to letting him walk why would we want to get in on the high price free agent market when we have a 2nd round pick entering his 3rd year ready to claim that spot? The Ravens would love for us to trade away Burfict so we can overpay for their RT I guarantee.

We have a shitload of cap room and a shitload of draft picks coming. There is no reason to trade away our elite players. We dont have a head coach capable of just coaching guys up a la Bellicheat and masking the loss of our studs.

I dont think Burfict will be a 15mil a year guy. Maybe half that. If he gets rediculous we have the franchise tag.

[TKUHL]

Sorry to dig up a old thread but it seems lot of us saw this coming.

[PikesPeakUC]

I don't even know what to do with Burfict anymore. lol. He's awesome out there sometimes, and then sometimes he's his own worst enemy, and then other times he's hurt.

The problem is that our higher up draft picks will probably be needed for things iike OL, TE and possibly DB depending on how things go this year, so do you really want to take a guy that high? Lawson and Vigil are probably long term guys, but Minter is on a prove it deal and Rey is a good super sub but not a starter.

I know that Burfict doesn't deserve all of the hate he gets, but at some point we have to evaluate how often he can stay on the field for a multitude of reasons.

[kevin]

(08-28-2017, 03:01 AM)TKUHL Wrote: Sorry to dig up a old thread but it seems lot of us saw this coming.

NO..GOOD job bringing this thread back to the top.  On Bengals main page I brought new NFL rules I posted before preseason back to the top..,This was a good thread to bring back TKUHL.   Too much faith in Burfict thread and these posts worth another look.    :andy:

[Arturo Bandini]

Best defensive player we have. That's just it.

Take the good and take the bad.

[Beaker]

(08-29-2017, 03:15 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Take the good and take the bad.

There you have the facts of life.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-29-2017, 03:15 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Best defensive player we have. That's just it.

Take the good and take the bad.

Geno
Dunlap

THEN Burfict.