Has the rebuild begun?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-15-2017, 10:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There's no way that the Browns would give the 1st overall pick and 12th for Dalton. No way. And honestly...I doubt if Dalton would succeed there.

Maybe not immediately, but it's hard to argue he didn't have his best year with Hue Jackson.  If the Brownies can assemble at least a little talent, I believe they can be contenders.  I feel more confident in Hue than Marvin.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-16-2017, 05:43 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: I don't think so.

We have a franchise quarterback. We have one of the elite wide receivers. We have a deadly red zone weapon at tight end (when healthy). We have one of the best interior defensive lineman. We have one of the most feared linebackers in the NFL. We have a pass rushing defensive end that is a monster at batting balls down.

We're not rebuilding. It's time for improvement.

We lack another linebacker outside of Burfict. We need another pass rusher besides Dunlap. We need a speed WR.

We have talent. We have good players. So far, we could lose Kirkpatrick and Zeitler as worst case scenario. Kirkpatrick may be an easier blow (if they keep Pacman). But honestly, we're still in pretty good shape.

The biggest concern, for me, is play calling on offense and actually getting improvements in spots. Can you imagine how much better our defense would be if we had a player like Deion Jones that could cover? Or if we had a pass rusher like Solomon Thomas or Derek Barnett so teams don't completely double team Dunlap and Atkins all game? Or a wide receiver like DeSean Jackson that not only spreads the field but can track balls in the air?

The Bengals aren't in rebuild mode. They're just finally being forced to make improvements over their "solid" contributors.

It's finally time to start out young players.

We have some individual talent...I agree...but from 1-22 of our starters, we have probably 6-7 guys that are aging and need replaced.

[wolfkaosaun]

(02-16-2017, 01:05 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We have some individual talent...I agree...but from 1-22 of our starters, we have probably 6-7 guys that are aging and need replaced.

Peko. Maualuga. Adam Jones. Dansby. Bodine. MJ.

Peko is a FA. We have Billings.
Maualuga needs cut. We don't even use him often.
Adam Jones needs cut. We have Dennard and WJIII in the wings.
Dansby is a FA and needs to retire.
Bodine needs replaced.
We need to draft a pass rusher and let MJ be rotational.

We have holes. Yes. But we have players on the roster than can take over spots. IE: Dennard, WJIII, Billings, Vigil.

We can't keep young players on the sideline, we need to play them.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-16-2017, 05:13 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Peko. Maualuga. Adam Jones. Dansby. Bodine. MJ.

Peko is a FA. We have Billings.
Maualuga needs cut. We don't even use him often.
Adam Jones needs cut. We have Dennard and WJIII in the wings.
Dansby is a FA and needs to retire.
Bodine needs replaced.
We need to draft a pass rusher and let MJ be rotational.

We have holes. Yes. But we have players on the roster than can take over spots. IE: Dennard, WJIII, Billings, Vigil.

We can't keep young players on the sideline, we need to play them.

There are young players waiting in the wings...but that doesn't mean they'll be upgrades in Year 1. Generally it takes a few years to develop them.

[Jpoore]

(02-16-2017, 05:13 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Peko. Maualuga. Adam Jones. Dansby. Bodine. MJ.

Peko is a FA. We have Billings.
Maualuga needs cut. We don't even use him often.
Adam Jones needs cut. We have Dennard and WJIII in the wings.
Dansby is a FA and needs to retire.
Bodine needs replaced.
We need to draft a pass rusher and let MJ be rotational.

We have holes. Yes. But we have players on the roster than can take over spots. IE: Dennard, WJIII, Billings, Vigil.

We can't keep young players on the sideline, we need to play them.

I would resign peko as a backup to Billings. U can't count on dennard bc hes always hurt. Rest I agree with 

[Murdock2420]

(02-16-2017, 05:13 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Peko. Maualuga. Adam Jones. Dansby. Bodine. MJ.

Peko is a FA. We have Billings.
Maualuga needs cut. We don't even use him often.
Adam Jones needs cut. We have Dennard and WJIII in the wings.
Dansby is a FA and needs to retire.
Bodine needs replaced.
We need to draft a pass rusher and let MJ be rotational.

We have holes. Yes. But we have players on the roster than can take over spots. IE: Dennard, WJIII, Billings, Vigil.

We can't keep young players on the sideline, we need to play them.

As others said, I can't really agree with walking away from Peko. The guy still manages to stuff up the middle on running plays, and Billings is still a giant unknown. Give Peko a 1 year deal and allow Billings to develop. 

Jones absolutely should be cut and Dansby hopefully isn't brought back. 

[Jpoore]

(02-16-2017, 11:46 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: As others said, I can't really agree with walking away from Peko. The guy still manages to stuff up the middle on running plays, and Billings is still a giant unknown. Give Peko a 1 year deal and allow Billings to develop. 

Jones absolutely should be cut and Dansby hopefully isn't brought back. 

I would give peko a, 1 year 2 million deal and cut pat Sims. Jones more than likely will be kept on. 

[Murdock2420]

(02-17-2017, 12:06 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I would give peko a, 1 year 2 million deal and cut pat Sims. Jones more than likely will be kept on. 

Ughh...I really hope Jones is let go. 

It's just never going to click with this guy. Time after time he's in trouble with the law, and some of his antics on field (Amari Cooper's head slam) are just way out of control.

Cutting him would be the first step in really trying to change the culture on this team.

[Jpoore]

(02-17-2017, 12:24 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Ughh...I really hope Jones is let go. 

It's just never going to click with this guy. Time after time he's in trouble with the law, and some of his antics on field (Amari Cooper's head slam) are just way out of control.

Cutting him would be the first step in really trying to change the culture on this team.

Yeah but bottom line is his felony is probably gonna be dropped and if they were gonna cut him it would have been because of his actions and they didn't. So leads me to believe he won't be cut. And hey at least the NFL has a corner in bigger trouble now(revis). 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-14-2017, 11:40 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: I'm a firm believer that the Bengals are in the process of rebuilding the team. This means letting a lot of the FA's walk and focus on drafting future players. I will be the first to say the rebuild is beginning. I'll be surprised if the Bengals are in contention for another 5 years. You heard it here first.

If this were true i would think they would want to build off of a solid foundation.

They would of fired Marv, PA, Zamp, Haslett and built off of Guenther, Simmons and Urban. Add decent coaches to these guys.

You cut ties with Adam Jones, Peko and Maualuga. Re-sign Whit and Zeitler. Don't know about Dre, i don't trust him.

Nah, i wish they were rebuilding. We would see a Playoff win a lot sooner.

[THE PISTONS]

I don't see Marvin going from playing young players sparingly to a full-blown youth movement...especially in a contract year.

Look for guys like Maualuga, Peko to be back. They'll possibly sign some other veterans to 1 year deals.

Hopefully, our 1st Round pick this year is a starter this year!

[Shake n Blake]

(02-15-2017, 12:03 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: True rebuilds don't happen in the NFL. It's a case of you have a good coach and have a good QB or you don't. Teams that have the combination of good coach and good QB = winners. Mediocre coach with decent QB = middle of the pack. No QB or Bad coach = dumpster fire.

Look at Seattle, dumpster fire...gets Russel Wilson and he fits the scheme of Pete Carroll and they are a quality team. Sure, they have a good defense, but honestly in today's NFL it's all about the QB.

Matt Ryan is a great QB, but didn't have the coach and scheme he needed till this year. New coach...and Super Bowl. The Colts were competitive with nothing besides Peyton and Harrison.

The only real rebuild is drafting a new franchise QB and not striking out.

1. Dumpster fire is a bit harsh. Seattle was 7-9 for two straight years, including a division title and an upset playoff win over the Saints. Getting Wilson helped, but that team was just young and on the rise at the time.

2. The Matt Ryan situation is just more proof of how important good coaching and scheme are. Ryan was in his 2nd season with a good coordinator, great run game and great weapons. He produced an MVP season. That reminds me of when Dalton was in his 2nd season with Hue Jackson and had a mediocre run game and excellent weapons. He produced an MVP caliber season despite a weak run game.

We already have a good QB. We need better coaching.

(02-15-2017, 10:15 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I get what you are saying, but I wouldn't call Palmer and Dalton both strike-outs.  I can't imagine most HCs and franchises that wouldn't be able to get a single playoff win out of 13 years of Palmer and Dalton, but that's just speculation.

Exactly. Even the most pessimistic people will admit Palmer and Dalton were at least slightly above average. Good enough to win playoff games with. Especially considering we've lost to the likes of Yates, Sanchez and the washed up version of Schaub.

(02-15-2017, 10:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And the Mr. Obvious Award goes to...

We have the 2nd oldest starting defense in the NFL. Also, we have the oldest starting Tackle in the NFL. It's quite obvious that the Bengals have to rebuild.

Do we clearly need to rebuild the o-line? Yes.

Do we clearly need to rebuild the whole roster? No.

This team can get back to losing wild card games with one smart off-season. Now do I think they'll have the big off-season necessary? Doubtful. We'll need a home run draft because I think the FA period will be a loss.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-15-2017, 10:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There's no way that the Browns would give the 1st overall pick and 12th for Dalton. No way. And honestly...I doubt if Dalton would succeed there.

I definitely think they'd part with a package of picks including one of their 1st rounders, but they wouldn't trade both for anybody outside of maybe Aaron Rodgers. I do think the Browns would be far better off with Dalton than the Bengals would be with one of their top picks. With Pryor, Coleman, Barnidge and Hue, I think Dalton would be just as good there as he's been for us.

[Murdock2420]

(02-17-2017, 02:39 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. Dumpster fire is a bit harsh. Seattle was 7-9 for two straight years, including a division title and an upset playoff win over the Saints. Getting Wilson helped, but that team was just young and on the rise at the time.

2. The Matt Ryan situation is just more proof of how important good coaching and scheme are. Ryan was in his 2nd season with a good coordinator, great run game and great weapons. He produced an MVP season. That reminds me of when Dalton was in his 2nd season with Hue Jackson and had a mediocre run game and excellent weapons. He produced an MVP caliber season despite a weak run game.

We already have a good QB. We need better coaching.

Fair enough...dumpster fire might be harsh, but it was a franchise that no one took serious and had never won the big game and had talent but couldn't seem to put it together.....which sounds familiar.
And, I completely agree with your conclusion. This team has the talent to succeed, what it lacks is a coach that can game plan and push the right buttons on guys. Lewis can find the talent, but getting a guy like Burfict to play under control or getting the team to not implode when something goes wrong, and just being able to plan a winning strategy against a good coach seems beyond his reach.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-17-2017, 02:55 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Fair enough...dumpster fire might be harsh, but it was a franchise that no one took serious and had never won the big game and had talent but couldn't seem to put it together.....which sounds familiar.
And, I completely agree with your conclusion. This team has the talent to succeed, what it lacks is a coach that can game plan and push the right buttons on guys. Lewis can find the talent, but getting a guy like Burfict to play under control or getting the team to not implode when something goes wrong, and just being able to plan a winning strategy against a good coach seems beyond his reach.

True. I just feel like Wilson to Seattle was a perfect match for both player and team. Seattle was a young team on the rise with a great coach. They just needed the QB. For Wilson, it was a great situation to step into. Almost reminded me of Ben and the Steelers back in 2004. 

Totally agree on Marv. Excellent talent evaluator and roster builder (although I think he's hampered in FA by Mike). He just doesn't have much backbone and that seems to be the identity of his teams as well. 

[BenZoo2]

I wouldn't say we are in rebuild mode. We are in reload mode. They need to nail the draft and free agency. They could be turning over about 25% of the roster. And I don't define f/a as the top guy or guys but but one year too late guys either. The coordinator losses have been just as damaging too, IMHO.

[jj22]

There's no rebuild until a new coach comes in. More like a re-run. A re-run of the same ole script with a different cast as the last 15 years.

[muskiesfan]

Call it whatever you want, but it's something. All of this cap we've been saving, rolling over to keep our drafted and developed players has been for not. We let them go to make money elsewhere, replace them with cheaper and/or older and cheaper alternatives, and pocket the profits. We are dedicated to winning so long as we don't have to pay anyone a premium and don't have to do more than the bare minimum. That's the Mike Brown way. His bank account is priority number one with everything else being a very, very distant number two.

[wolfkaosaun]

(02-16-2017, 08:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There are young players waiting in the wings...but that doesn't mean they'll be upgrades in Year 1. Generally it takes a few years to develop them.

But you can't just let them sit on the sideline because they may not be upgrades year one. They could be. They could be pro bowl players. You can't be afraid in this league.

(02-16-2017, 09:42 PM)Jpoore Wrote: I would resign peko as a backup to Billings. U can't count on dennard bc hes always hurt. Rest I agree with 

I'd be 100% fine with resigning Peko as a backup.
However, I don't think the Bengals would have him as a backup. He would most likely be the starter.

Also, Dennard isn't "always hurt". He missed his first season, which happens to a lot of the Bengals 1st rounders apparently. He's been hurt for 9 games the past 3 seasons. He's been healthy for 40 games the last 3 seasons.

(02-16-2017, 11:46 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: As others said, I can't really agree with walking away from Peko. The guy still manages to stuff up the middle on running plays, and Billings is still a giant unknown. Give Peko a 1 year deal and allow Billings to develop. 

Jones absolutely should be cut and Dansby hopefully isn't brought back. 

Why not? He really isn't all that great. He is 32, about to be 33 this year. He didn't plug up holes like he usually does, he had arguably the worst year of his career in every aspect.
He had 17 solo tackles. That's as many as Maualuga. 20 assisted tackles. That's 2 less than Pat Sims. He also had 0 sacks.
Peko isn't even within the top 100 of players who had tackles for losses. And that list ends at 7 tackles for losses.

According to sportingcharts.com. Peko had only 3 run stuffs all year. For 4 yards. Hunt and Burfict both had 3 run stuffs, but both for more yards.

Jalen Ramsey has as many run stuffs as Peko.

If they resign Peko, Billings isn't going to get as much of a chance to develop as some believe.

Plus, we have Hardison, DeShawn Williams, and Billings.
I mean, DeShawn Williams had more sacks than Peko last year, and Williams had only 2 tackles.


I mean, this is the same team that put their backup center in at offensive guard when Boling went out rather than play Westerman.

You have to take risks. Peko is a below average starter anymore.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-18-2017, 03:47 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: But you can't just let them sit on the sideline because they may not be upgrades year one. They could be. They could be pro bowl players. You can't be afraid in this league.


I'd be 100% fine with resigning Peko as a backup.
However, I don't think the Bengals would have him as a backup. He would most likely be the starter.

Also, Dennard isn't "always hurt". He missed his first season, which happens to a lot of the Bengals 1st rounders apparently. He's been hurt for 9 games the past 3 seasons. He's been healthy for 40 games the last 3 seasons.


Why not? He really isn't all that great. He is 32, about to be 33 this year. He didn't plug up holes like he usually does, he had arguably the worst year of his career in every aspect.
He had 17 solo tackles. That's as many as Maualuga. 20 assisted tackles. That's 2 less than Pat Sims. He also had 0 sacks.
Peko isn't even within the top 100 of players who had tackles for losses. And that list ends at 7 tackles for losses.

According to sportingcharts.com. Peko had only 3 run stuffs all year. For 4 yards. Hunt and Burfict both had 3 run stuffs, but both for more yards.

Jalen Ramsey has as many run stuffs as Peko.

If they resign Peko, Billings isn't going to get as much of a chance to develop as some believe.

Plus, we have Hardison, DeShawn Williams, and Billings.
I mean, DeShawn Williams had more sacks than Peko last year, and Williams had only 2 tackles.


I mean, this is the same team that put their backup center in at offensive guard when Boling went out rather than play Westerman.

You have to take risks. Peko is a below average starter anymore.

Great post Wolf with the stats to back up everything you say. You know your shit man.

Lets just move on from Peko please and give Billings, DeShawn and possibly another DT a shot.

I would be willing to bet that we would get better and definately would not decline in the middle.