Posts: 28,757
Threads: 40
Reputation:
126716
Joined: May 2015
Location: Parts Unknown, PA
(07-23-2015, 06:08 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: so its a projection for this year?
Winston and Mariota didnt play many snaps last year.
I realize it's all relative, but who would you rather see as your starting QB on day 1, Winson/Mariotta or McCown/Cassel/Smith? I'd put the #1 and #2 overall QB picks over a few of the long-term duds that are going to be starting. I don't think it's too much of a leap to assume the 2 QBs taken before anyone else this year will contribute more than the trio of QBs that were benched last season, ranked 31st and 32nd in the league, and are going to get yanked 3-8 games in.
Basically, I'd put Mariota and Winston in the high 20s and bet my left nut they contribute more than the guys who aren't going to have jobs next year. Is that so crazy? Putting them last just seems too "safe" in my mind.
Posts: 889
Threads: 36
Reputation:
5042
Joined: May 2015
Location: California
(07-23-2015, 08:41 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Seems Jaws has Dalton ranked right around where most logical people do. At this point we all know what Dalton is. It just comes down to whether or not you're okay with an average starting QB. I am. So are most Ravens and Giants fans. It also comes down to why you think Dalton (and everyone else) is choking and if you think he/they can overcome it. That's the million dollar question.
Ravens and Giants fans also have a QB who's carried their team on his back to championships. Big difference comparing ole boy Dalton to Superbowl MVPs.
Posts: 15,116
Threads: 221
Reputation:
147378
Joined: May 2015
(07-24-2015, 07:28 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Ravens and Giants fans also have a QB who's carried their team on his back to championships. Big difference comparing ole boy Dalton to Superbowl MVPs.
I guess that's why I said this:
"It also comes down to why you think Dalton (and everyone else) is choking and if you think he/they can overcome it. That's the million dollar question."
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
Posts: 25,757
Threads: 647
Reputation:
241936
Joined: May 2015
Location: Jackson, OH
(07-23-2015, 08:45 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: . And Carson Palmer played lights out, not in the low teens...
I believe that is his projection, for THIS season. As Palmer attempts another comeback from injury, and he is getting on in years.
As for Dalton being projected 16, I'd say that is fair. With weapons coming back, the second year under new OC, strong running game, and what looks to be a strong again defense, Dalton could look really good this year. (he could also disappoint in the big game again, too) (which is why a middle of the pack projection is fair to me)
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
-Frank Booth 1/9/23
Posts: 5,559
Threads: 82
Reputation:
25610
Joined: May 2015
Location: Florida
(07-22-2015, 11:52 PM)jj22 Wrote: According to Jaws, Dalton comes in at 16. Highest rated thus far. Thoughts?
Well, I happened to see the Cleveland game and both Indy games and the second Pitt game, and it's hard to imagine that those games could be part of a QB's best year.
There were some upside games though. Come backs in both Ravens' games, the NO game was as close to perfect as you can get as a QB.
Jaws' 16 ranking for Dalton is fair and probably aligns with where most people have him. It certainly is close to where I have him.
But the real question is, is he good enough to take the team to the SB? That is what matters. Making baby step progress only means something for a short while. This is year 5 and a big step forward is needed.
When I look at the roster for 2015 and rate their readiness for a SB run, I see the following:
RBs are good enough for a SB run. [Hill makes all the difference here]
WRs are good enough for a SB run, if healthy. Weak depth and health history makes them a ?
TEs are a ? [None of them is a proven guy, including Eifert.]
OL is good enough for a SB run.
DL is good enough for a SB run.
LBs are a ?
DBs are good enough for a SB run.
Special Teams is good enough for a SB run, given that Adam Jones is at least a part time returner.
QB is a ? in that he doesn't appear to be any better than the receivers he throws to and the depth at WR is weak and the TEs are a ?
Posts: 180
Threads: 2
Reputation:
212
Joined: Jul 2015
(07-23-2015, 02:45 PM)Utts Wrote: Poo poo the Pro Bowl if you want, but Andy had talent at every position and looked horrible. I think he developed a confidence problem as the season wore on, and it spilled over into that game. It didn't help that most of the football world was going on about he didn't belong there.
Most all teams have talent at every position so a weak response, Andy has shown he is a winner as QB but not in top 10 for sure but is solid and 16 ranking seems about correct
Posts: 1,148
Threads: 46
Reputation:
2307
Joined: May 2015
(07-26-2015, 12:18 AM)Anderson HOF Wrote: Most all teams have talent at every position so a weak response...
No. No teams have the level of talent he was surrounded by in the Pro Bowl. Even if they did, the fact remains he was horrible. That last drive in particular was an abomination.
Posts: 180
Threads: 2
Reputation:
212
Joined: Jul 2015
(07-26-2015, 04:48 PM)Utts Wrote: No. No teams have the level of talent he was surrounded by in the Pro Bowl. Even if they did, the fact remains he was horrible. That last drive in particular was an abomination.
Oh my so the pro bowl which is worse than a pre season game is your gauge lol. You do understand it does not count for anything and has zero relevance to a QB rating. You really are grasping for anything.
Posts: 180
Threads: 2
Reputation:
212
Joined: Jul 2015
(07-26-2015, 04:48 PM)Utts Wrote: No. No teams have the level of talent he was surrounded by in the Pro Bowl. Even if they did, the fact remains he was horrible. That last drive in particular was an abomination.
Well guess we should bench that terrible line he had at pro bowl since they were terrible too with Dalton or did you miss that in the game
Posts: 268
Threads: 20
Reputation:
865
Joined: Jul 2015
He had a good year besides a few games. It wasn't his fault we lost in the wild card round. The Dalton hate is strong in the rest of the league. I was watching NFL Network today and they had a top ten show for "QB Teases". They had Dalton ranked 7th! Keep in mind that the rest of the QB's were retired! This guy can't get respect. As if his career is over already. What a joke
Posts: 1,148
Threads: 46
Reputation:
2307
Joined: May 2015
(07-26-2015, 09:34 PM)Anderson HOF Wrote: You really are grasping for anything.
So were Andy's receivers that night...
On final set of downs: brutal underthrow, near-pick, overthrown screen, throw to no one. Dalton apologists make me sick.
Posts: 15,116
Threads: 221
Reputation:
147378
Joined: May 2015
I posted it to the old boards and don't feel like researching it again, but there's been plenty of QB's that skunked up the Pro Bowl over the last few years.
Cam Newton has been dreadful in both his Pro Bowls. Drew Brees had an awful game once. So have several others.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
Posts: 2,319
Threads: 27
Joined: May 2015
Location: Western Pennsylvania
(07-27-2015, 07:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I posted it to the old boards and don't feel like researching it again, but there's been plenty of QB's that skunked up the Pro Bowl over the last few years.
Cam Newton has been dreadful in both his Pro Bowls. Drew Brees had an awful game once. So have several others.
But were any of their names Andy??? Doubt it!
Checkmate!
Andy obviously sucks, illuminati confirmed.
Posts: 1,148
Threads: 46
Reputation:
2307
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,481
Threads: 62
Reputation:
4841
Joined: May 2015
2013 was Dalton's best year IMO. Hopefully we'll see it's like again. Then again, I'm a strange beast who misses Jay Gruden.
Posts: 1,069
Threads: 21
Joined: May 2015
(07-27-2015, 12:35 AM)Utts Wrote: So were Andy's receivers that night...
On final set of downs: brutal underthrow, near-pick, overthrown screen, throw to no one. Dalton apologists make me sick.
It's the Pro Bowl. A glorified scrimmage. It might as well have been a flag football game. Had he performed lights out, you would have dismissed it for this very reason. Sorry I'm not going to judge Dalton based on his performance in this game.
Posts: 2,319
Threads: 27
Joined: May 2015
Location: Western Pennsylvania
(07-28-2015, 09:36 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: It's the Pro Bowl. A glorified scrimmage. It might as well have been a flag football game. Had he performed lights out, you would have dismissed it for this very reason. Sorry I'm not going to judge Dalton based on his performance in this game.
It's pretty standard for an adult to be able to properly tie their shoes, right?
If you can tie your shoes, is it really that impressive? No, because it's expected of you.
If you can't tie your shoes, what does that say about you?
QBs are expected to perform at a high level in the Pro Bowl. The rules are there to help them look good. I'm not going to knock Andy for a Pro Bowl appearance because I think the game is silly, but there's a huge difference between doing what is expected of your position and looking flat out terrible. The logic you and others try to use when you say "well, you'd just brush it off if he played well!!!" is silly, because yes we'd all brush it off, because it's EXPECTED for him to play well in a game that favors the QB position.
Posts: 13,628
Threads: 365
Reputation:
45805
Joined: May 2015
I hope the same folks who attack Dalton for his probowl performance are arguing AGAINST extending Green. We saw how he performed with elite QB's (Brees, Luck) throwing to him in recent years, and it hasn't been good.
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous
"Let not the dumb have to educate" ~ jj22
Posts: 1,069
Threads: 21
Joined: May 2015
(07-28-2015, 10:15 AM)djs7685 Wrote: It's pretty standard for an adult to be able to properly tie their shoes, right?
If you can tie your shoes, is it really that impressive? No, because it's expected of you.
If you can't tie your shoes, what does that say about you?
QBs are expected to perform at a high level in the Pro Bowl. The rules are there to help them look good. I'm not going to knock Andy for a Pro Bowl appearance because I think the game is silly, but there's a huge difference between doing what is expected of your position and looking flat out terrible. The logic you and others try to use when you say "well, you'd just brush it off if he played well!!!" is silly, because yes we'd all brush it off, because it's EXPECTED for him to play well in a game that favors the QB position.
I think it's just as "silly" to try to knock him based on how he played in it.
Posts: 2,319
Threads: 27
Joined: May 2015
Location: Western Pennsylvania
(07-28-2015, 11:13 AM)jj22 Wrote: I hope the same folks who attack Dalton for his probowl performance are arguing AGAINST extending Green. We saw how he performed with elite QB's (Brees, Luck) throwing to him in recent years, and it hasn't been good.
That doesn't really make sense though. A.J. has put up elite numbers with Andy already, so he's proven that he's in an upper tier of WRs.
Andy has never done that. He's proven that he's a decent QB that can put up a reasonable amount of volume if you surround him with enough healthy, good players. He's not going to carry a team on his back like others around the league have done at times. It is what it is. Let's hope this team stays healthy and Andy will probably have a career year in 2015.
Not saying that it's valid to bash the guy for what he did in a glorified scrimmage game, but it's apples to oranges to compare A.J.'s career to Andy's. Green has been a much better WR than Andy has been at QB, and it's not even a slight to Dalton, A.J. is just really, really good.
(07-28-2015, 11:16 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: I think it's just as "silly" to try to knock him based on how he played in it.
I do too, I just find there to be sliiiiightly more merit behind being worried that he looks awful in the Pro Bowl rather than being excited if he did put up good numbers. Most QBs put up good numbers, so that is just expected and nothing too extravagant. I don't think a Pro Bowl is the game to judge a player at the end of the day, good or bad.
|
