Dead Weight

[TKUHL]

Why does this team never seem to release guys that are underperforming to free up money to sign the Zeitler and Whits of the team. Would we be able to keep Whit, Zeitler and Dre if we cut Peko and Maulauga? I know we've had a lot of FA's the past 2 years but we didn't sign our big names so where the hell did the money go. How did we go from 40 mil to 15? Who can we let go to keep the guys we need.

[Housh]

Rollover you know


Its funny all this talk about rollover and guys like Sanu, MArvin Jones, Michael Johnson, Reggie Nelson always seem to get away. lol


Lying to our face and ppl are still dumb enough to believe it.


This team is in the game of getting better as long as its on a budget.


If we had Antonio Brown AND Leveon Bell I guaruntee we wouldve let one walk.


We wouldve picked either or

Steelers chose BOTH without hesitation.



Steelers is a storied franchise with titles

Were the trashest franchise in sports and haevent even SNIFFED a title in 20 years

[Au165]

(02-28-2017, 12:37 PM)Housh Wrote: Rollover you know


Its funny all this talk about rollover and guys like Sanu, MArvin Jones, Michael Johnson, Reggie Nelson always seem to get away. lol


Lying to our face and ppl are still dumb enough to believe it.


This team is in the game of getting better as long as its on a budget.


If we had Antonio Brown AND Leveon Bell I guaruntee we wouldve let one walk.


We wouldve picked either or

Steelers chose BOTH without hesitation.



Steelers is a storied franchise with titles

Were the trashest franchise in sports and haevent even SNIFFED a title in 20 years

Look at their cap breakdowns and show me where they "Lied" and didn't spend the money. Calling people dumb is funny because the math would say those that believe them are in fact correct, and those who don't are ignorant to the actual cap. The roll over is used, now how they use it is up in the air, but the roll over is used as the NFLPA numbers show.

[CageTheBengal]

(02-28-2017, 01:02 PM)Au165 Wrote: Look at their cap breakdowns and show me where they "Lied" and didn't spend the money. Calling people dumb is funny because the math would say those that believe them are in fact correct, and those who don't are ignorant to the actual cap. The roll over is used, now how they use it is up in the air, but the roll over is used as the NFLPA numbers show.

Don't ya hate when facts and numbers get in the way of a good cry?

[Au165]

(02-28-2017, 01:05 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Don't ya hate when facts and numbers get in the way of a good cry?

Right? I am totally behind the idea we spend our money poor at times, but it is a FACT we spend close to the cap each season. The years we didn't it was all rolled to the years to resign AJ and Andy and the numbers show it was needed as those years we also spent close to the cap.

[XenoMorph]

(02-28-2017, 12:26 PM)TKUHL Wrote: Why does this team never seem to release guys that are underperforming to free up money to sign the Zeitler and Whits of the team. Would we be able to keep Whit, Zeitler and Dre if we cut Peko and Maulauga? I know we've had a lot of FA's the past 2 years but we didn't sign our big names so where the hell did the money go. How did we go from 40 mil to 15? Who can we let go to keep the guys we need.

i believe most teams wait to the new league year to release guys...  And if they are on team friendly deals ie no cap hit if released.. Might as well bring them to camp to see if your really upgrading or not...  (and the occansional injury)

[Housh]

(02-28-2017, 01:06 PM)Au165 Wrote: Right? I am totally behind the idea we spend our money poor at times, but it is a FACT we spend close to the cap each season. The years we didn't it was all rolled to the years to resign AJ and Andy and the numbers show it was needed as those years we also spent close to the cap.

Are you paid to post here by the Bengals?


When I said lying to us I meant about wanting to win at all costs




I dare you to argue that point

[THE PISTONS]

(02-28-2017, 01:06 PM)Au165 Wrote: Right? I am totally behind the idea we spend our money poor at times, but it is a FACT we spend close to the cap each season. The years we didn't it was all rolled to the years to resign AJ and Andy and the numbers show it was needed as those years we also spent close to the cap.

The only thing I can figure is he's subtracting out rollover space that we carried forward from not spending at the cap as that isn't recurring.


We have about $44.5 cap space.
- $6.5 million that we rolled over. (In reality this can be used for signing bonuses, etc. and the cap should keep rising each year.)
-------------------------------------------
$38 million
-9.2 million - Our rookie pool is around $9.2 million. (https://overthecap.com/draft/)
--------------------------------------------
$28.8 million


Plus, if they waive guys like Maualuga, Jones, MJ...we could have even more.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-28-2017, 02:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The only thing I can figure is he's subtracting out rollover space that we carried forward from not spending at the cap as that isn't recurring.


We have about $44.5 cap space.
- $6.5 million that we rolled over. (In reality this can be used for signing bonuses, etc. and the cap should keep rising each year.)
-------------------------------------------
$38 million
-9.2 million - Our rookie pool is around $9.2 million. (https://overthecap.com/draft/)
--------------------------------------------
$28.8 million


Plus, if they waive guys like Maualuga, Jones, MJ...we could have even more.

And even that rookie pool number is iffy because that assumes all 11 picks make the team, which isn't currently possible because then they would need to cut other people to make roster space, thus freeing up more cap. Spotrac has the Bengals listed as 56 people under contract right now. So even if the draft picks kick league minimum guys off the payroll, that's $420,000 x 11 = $4.62m.

So your $9.2m rookie pool - $4.62m = $4.58m is the actual cap hit.. and that's assuming every single draft pick replaces someone making league minimum, which is unlikely. So it's probably even less.


- - - - -
EXAMPLE: Last year's 9th overall pick (Ereck Flowers, OL) was a $2.6m cap hit in 2016. So say 9th overall they take Reuben Foster and he has about a $2.7m cap hit in 2017. He also makes Rey Maualuga no longer helpful for the team, who currently has a $3.67m cap hit in 2017 with $0 in dead money if cut.

So drafting Reuben Foster to replace....
-Rey Maualuga actually nets you a gain of ~$1m in extra cap space.
-Vincent Rey nets you a gain of ~$650,000 in extra cap space.
-Nick Vigil loses you $2.4m in cap space.

One of those three would have to be cut because the Bengals won't go with 4 MLB on their roster, and though they vary in the amount, all of them would cause Reuben Foster's cap hit to not be as big as it would have been if they didn't have to make roster space for him.

So that $9.2m rookie pool number is fairly worthless for calculating cap space.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-28-2017, 02:28 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: And even that rookie pool number is iffy because that assumes all 11 picks make the team, which isn't currently possible because then they would need to cut other people to make roster space, thus freeing up more cap. Spotrac has the Bengals listed as 56 people under contract right now. So even if the draft picks kick league minimum guys off the payroll, that's $420,000 x 11 = $4.62m.

So your $9.2m rookie pool - $4.62m = $4.58m is the actual cap hit.. and that's assuming every single draft pick replaces someone making league minimum, which is unlikely. So it's probably even less.

No doubt. And I subtracted over the rolled over cap money...but it can be spent on extensions, etc.

It's not a bad thing. That's what it's for.

[TKUHL]

So Mike Brown is a baller on a budget, I get it. Does the front office need to bring someone in to be more "creative" with these contracts? How is it even possible for teams like Pitt and KC to be able to make deals like they do and we can't even keep 1 of our most important players. If the MO is to build through the draft then one would think situations like this season and last would have been for seen. Jones, Sanu, Smith, Nelson, Whit, Zeitler, Dre etc. How the hell can we not afford 1 of these guys. I personally think we keep players that underperform too long when we should be trying to free up money to sign the good ones before they reach FA. Who would have thought that Burkhead would be the priority out of this group. I know Hill has sucked but RB's are a dime a dozen. We can draft a RB every 4 years and be fine. I like Burkhead, I just don't think he should be a priority right now. If we are lucky at best we will have the same line as last year. That's pretty pathetic.

[THE PISTONS]

We're obviously going to enter a rebuilding mode where we have a lot of guys on rookie contracts. That's reading the tea leaves.

[Au165]

(02-28-2017, 02:00 PM).Housh Wrote: Are you paid to post here by the Bengals?


When I said lying to us I meant about wanting to win at all costs




I dare you to argue that point

No. That's not what your original post said, you said they were lying and I can't seem to see where they are doing that. Not sure they ever said they wanted to win at all costs, but they have said they want to win. They want to win there way, but it doesn't mean they aren't spending the money in the cap which the information available shows they spend about the league average.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-28-2017, 03:32 PM)Au165 Wrote: No. That's not what your original post said, you said they were lying and I can't seem to see where they are doing that. Not sure they ever said they wanted to win at all costs, but they have said they want to win. They want to win there way, but it doesn't mean they aren't spending the money in the cap which the information available shows they spend about the league average.

Well...'their way' has produced a grand total of 0 playoff wins in the 26+ years since modern free agency began in the NFL.


The Steelers found a way to keep Bell, Brown, DeCastro and have a top paid QB. The Bengals have twice as much cap space and are likely going to let core free agents walk.

[John Shaft]

Correct.
Getting rid of crap players like Peko and Maulauga has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with cap space, rollover, contracts, extensions, cap hits or any of that stuff you analytics fantasy guys are talking about. Identify crap players (Peko,Maulauga) ....cut crap players

[samhain]

(02-28-2017, 03:32 PM)Au165 Wrote: No. That's not what your original post said, you said they were lying and I can't seem to see where they are doing that. Not sure they ever said they wanted to win at all costs, but they have said they want to win. They want to win there way, but it doesn't mean they aren't spending the money in the cap which the information available shows they spend about the league average.

I missed where you did the math to make the 15 mil sound like a sane or reasonable number.  Could you point me to the post where you turn 44 mil into 15?  I'm genuinely interested.   I could see getting down to 28 or 30 after compensating for lost hot dog costs, vagisil, rookie deals and injuries, but where's all this money going?

[*ochocincos*]

(02-28-2017, 05:21 PM)samhain Wrote: I missed where you did the math to make the 15 mil sound like a sane or reasonable number.  Could you point me to the post where you turn 44 mil into 15?  I'm genuinely interested.   I could see getting down to 28 or 30 after compensating for lost hot dog costs, vagisil, rookie deals and injuries, but where's all this money going?

Au165 mentioned it in this thread - http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Hobson-only-15-million-of-cap-to-work-with

Au165 Wrote:I intially had an issue with it too, but after thinking about it more I can find the math. I am going to back into the math here, and honestly it does make sense if you are looking to the future. The issue is it doesn't take into account letting guys go on expiring deals and such.


I think we will need around 9 million in cap for our draft picks when taking comp picks into account. That moves us down to roughly 35 Million in cap. Assume we are pulling out our pool for resigning Eiffert and Burfict next year, you can conservatively assume they will combine for 17 Million. This takes us down to around 18 Million in cap and the difference may be them pulling out money for UDFA and such along with their "injury" pool.

I think the big discrepancy is they are all ready earmarking funds for Burfict and Eiffert which they should, but Fans don't anticipate that. Now they could save money for next year by back loading those deals, but with their injury histories I'd take the big cap hit on them next year to save you if things go south later.

[samhain]

(02-28-2017, 05:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Au165 mentioned it in this thread - http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Hobson-only-15-million-of-cap-to-work-with

I see.  Thanks.  This is all well and good until next year when they tell us they only have 5 mil to give to Eifert and burfict because they need to pay Hill and Dennard the next year.  Endless cycle.

[XenoMorph]

(02-28-2017, 02:00 PM)Housh Wrote: Are you paid to post here by the Bengals?


When I said lying to us I meant about wanting to win at all costs




I dare you to argue that point

You can only Spend soo much  hence a CAP...

[Housh]

(02-28-2017, 03:32 PM)Au165 Wrote: No. That's not what your original post said, you said they were lying and I can't seem to see where they are doing that. Not sure they ever said they wanted to win at all costs, but they have said they want to win. They want to win there way, but it doesn't mean they aren't spending the money in the cap which the information available shows they spend about the league average.

My original post actually didn't specify anything because I regularly practice bad grammar and type how I think.

So don't even attempt to tell me what I meant to say because im telling you right now what I meant to say.

The team lies to our faces about wanting to win at all costs and people like you would rather back their strategy up than call it out