Hobson - only $15 million of cap to work with?

[BenZoo2]

If whit hasn't seen this yet I'm sure he will. And that would be the last straw for me. That would maybe free up enough for dre, Rex and lafell. Yawn. Steelers are keeping their own Mikey, while you hoard 17 million for next year. Priceless. It's no effing wonder why your your record, both regular and post season is what it is.

I have nfl ticket for next year. I think I'm gonna said need it.

[Bengalholic]

(02-28-2017, 05:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: Actually his article in the players tribune made it sound a lot more like he wanted to be a #1.

(02-28-2017, 05:24 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Can you show me a Bengals offer which includes the guaranteed money to prove he turned down the same offer?

Bengals.com and a number of other sources did report that the offers were similar, but after the deal was first reported, Coley Harvey said:

'If Jones' new contract does in fact pay him $8 million a year, then the Bengals were grossly outbid. Although Cincinnati wanted him back in stripes badly, there simply was no way the team was going to pay Jones that much on his second contract when it had 12 other unrestricted free agents it was interested in working out contracts for.'

A few days later, Marvin gave a different reason as to why Jones made his decision:

Lewis said "a sudden change in heart" caused Jones to sign with the Detroit Lions on the first day of the new league year, instead of back with the Bengals.

"We worked to sign Marvin back and Marvin chose to go, His idea was to feel that he could be a No. 1 at another team, even though he said that wasn't important to him. It became important all of a sudden again."

It's hard to know for sure. Maybe it was some combination of both.

[Bengalholic]

(02-28-2017, 07:56 PM)Derrick Wrote:  It also notes the $15 million total allocated for Whitt, Zeitler, and DreKirk. The article calls this figure ridiculous!

Hobson basically said they won't pay Zeitler that kind of money - saying "it's not their M.O." - on the podcast with Rapien, so I guess you can scratch him off the list.

[THE Bigzoman]

You guys.

Read docs article on the enquirer. It pretty much rationalizes doing **** all in free agency.

Writing is on the wall. We'll be lucky to keep any of the big 3.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-28-2017, 08:38 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Bengals.com and a number of other sources did report that the offers were similar, but after the deal was first reported, Coley Harvey said:

'If Jones' new contract does in fact pay him $8 million a year, then the Bengals were grossly outbid. Although Cincinnati wanted him back in stripes badly, there simply was no way the team was going to pay Jones that much on his second contract when it had 12 other unrestricted free agents it was interested in working out contracts for.'

A few days later, Marvin gave a different reason as to why Jones made his decision:

Lewis said "a sudden change in heart" caused Jones to sign with the Detroit Lions on the first day of the new league year, instead of back with the Bengals.

"We worked to sign Marvin back and Marvin chose to go, His idea was to feel that he could be a No. 1 at another team, even though he said that wasn't important to him. It became important all of a sudden again."

It's hard to know for sure. Maybe it was some combination of both.

Lewis recently said the Oline isn't a concern. I stopped listening to Lewis after he called Braham's tibial plateau fracture a bone bruise. He has given me no reason to change my mind as he is completely full of shit. 

[THE PISTONS]

No real source...but I have a feeling that Kirkpatrick could leave to a team that is flashier.

[fredtoast]

(02-28-2017, 11:35 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: Lets say the $17 million figure for Eifert and Burfict is right. They wouldn't need to set the entire $17 million aside from this year's cap. Contracts will come off the books next year and the cap will rise again. The Bengals roll over money year to year so not to spend it. They keep more than damn near every team in the league for injury pool, but barely spend any of it. It's all ways for Mike Brown to stay as cheap as possible and pocket some extra money along the way.

They're taking away ~$30 million in cap space just because. $9 million for rookies, $1 million for practice squad, and the absurd $5 million for injuries and that would leave them almost $30 million in space to use this year. Instead, they're taking out an extra $15 million for no real reason.

Honestly, how is it that 31 teams seem to work with a different salary cap than the Bengals? We seem to be the only team that receives cap money that has to at least be cut by 50% out of the gate, then subtract additional monies for ????. Our owner and GM has no desire to spend money to win.

Sorry if this has already been explained but I am not going to read 8 pages of whining and crying to find out.

Mike Brown does not put unspent cap space into his pocket like some other owners.  Instead he rolls it over.

Each of the last two years the bengals have spoent ABOVE the league salary cap.  The were able to do this because of the money rolled over.  

Bengals are not ebing cheap.  The last two years they have been spending MORE than most other teams in the league on player salaries.

[McC]

(02-28-2017, 09:42 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: No real source...but I have a feeling that Kirkpatrick could leave to a team that is flashier.

Well, if there's 15 mil to sign Z, Whit and Dre, and we know Z is all but gone, that leaves 15 for Dre and Whit.  Whit will take 10ish so Dre is likely gone too.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(02-28-2017, 09:09 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: You guys.

Read docs article on the enquirer. It pretty much rationalizes doing **** all in free agency.

Writing is on the wall. We'll be lucky to keep any of the big 3.

I'm bracing for all of them to leave.

[BengalChris]

(02-28-2017, 10:16 AM)ochocincos Wrote: In Hobson's latest article on Bengals.com titled "How fine is nine?", there is a section called Whit's Worth. Inside, the following quote...


Full article here - http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/How-fine-is-nine-Bengals-alive-and-kicking-with-Simmons-at-helm/f9b88411-55bb-4c61-a69e-f281a1cd8a6d

Normally, Hobson would spout off reasons why the full $43 million cannot be spent. This time, he just flat out says "Bengals can only spend X" and leaves it at that. Probably because he knows giving any kind of reasoning will be ridiculed. We all know how the breakdown should be and that the Bengals should have somewhere in the low $30 millions to spend. Saying only $15 million is immediately saying this franchise is not going to win a playoff game.

Yep, that's the usual article we get this time of year. All the reasons in the world to not improve the team or even keep their own.

Model model might work, if they actually did it.

What they are saying is that they'll try to keep Whit or Kirkpatrick, preferably Whit. Zeitler is no where on their radar.

Then they'll offer work to sign Burkhead and LaFell to extensions. That's about what we an expect.

If Whit goes, then I'm guess we'll be lucky to match last year's 6 wins. Oggieboggie boy can't block a wet paper doll.

[Whatever]

(02-28-2017, 09:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sorry if this has already been explained but I am not going to read 8 pages of whining and crying to find out.

Mike Brown does not put unspent cap space into his pocket like some other owners.  Instead he rolls it over.

Each of the last two years the bengals have spoent ABOVE the league salary cap.  The were able to do this because of the money rolled over.  

Bengals are not ebing cheap.  The last two years they have been spending MORE than most other teams in the league on player salaries.

I'm not a huge FA proponent, but even I don't get it if this $15 mill stuff is true.

The point in rolling salary cap is so you can reup your key players and/or bring free agents in if you're going to be tight against the cap the following season.  However, setting aside cap dollars to roll into next year just so next year you can set aside more cap dollars to roll into the following year only makes sense if your strategy is to wait for the league to lose revenue, then strike when the cap goes down and everyone else has to dump salary to get under the cap.

Similarly, we are presumably setting aside $10 mill or so for extensions for Eifert and Burfict.  IMO, that's not particularly prudent.  Both men have issues staying healthy, and Burfict is a league target for dirty play.  It would better to see what they do this, particularly since neither plays a premium position that will carry a high tag amount.  Even if you're that sold on one or both, set your $10 mill aside, and if you can't get a deal done, roll it over to next year.  Don't set aside money to roll over into next year to keep guys you've already set money aside to extend this year.

I understand not taking the risks with the ridiculous amounts of guaranteed money the top tier FA's get, because it's difficult to get out from under their contracts.  At the same time, we rarely jettison underperforming coach's pets that we can easily upgrade over.

I'm not saying the organization is cheap when it comes to player salaries.  However, I don't get the strategy they're using.  

[Shake n Blake]

Even if you're a glass-half-full type, you have to admit that Hobson does this literally every single year.

How is it possible that we're the only NFL team that NEVER has a little extra money for free agency?

Instead of having Hobs bullshit the fanbase every year, maybe the Bengals should just come out and say they don't like using FA, and explain why.

I'm not saying I'd agree with their reasoning, but at least they wouldn't be lying to their fans like they're stupid.

[guyofthetiger]

(02-28-2017, 09:47 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: I'm bracing for all of them to leave.

This is the most realistic view. The Bengals are rebuilding. I'm admitting it. Others should too.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-28-2017, 11:21 AM)Au165 Wrote: I intially had an issue with it too, but after thinking about it more I can find the math. I am going to back into the math here, and honestly it does make sense if you are looking to the future. The issue is it doesn't take into account letting guys go on expiring deals and such.

I think we will need around 9 million in cap for our draft picks when taking comp picks into account. That moves us down to roughly 35 Million in cap. Assume we are pulling out our pool for resigning Eiffert and Burfict next year, you can conservatively assume they will combine for 17 Million. This takes us down to around 18 Million in cap and the difference may be them pulling out money for UDFA and such along with their "injury" pool.

I think the big discrepancy is they are all ready earmarking funds for Burfict and Eiffert which they should, but Fans don't anticipate that. Now they could save money for next year by back loading those deals, but with their injury histories I'd take the big cap hit on them next year to save you if things go south later.

Here's the flaw with your math:

Eifert already counts for $4.7 million in cap space
Burfict already counts for $4.7 million in cap space

Even if you bump them both to $10 million per year, you only have to come up with $10 million in NEW money.

Rey's contract will be up, freeing up $3.75 million
Adam Jones could be cut freeing up $6.6 million.

So, really, you don't have to come up with any new money at all to re-sign those guys.

As of now, the Bengals 2018 cap number is $60 million, so there is plenty of money there to extend Burfict and Eifert - even if we use up $30 million of it to sign Dre, Z and Whitworth.

So, really, the math doesn't make any sense.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-28-2017, 11:45 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: This is the most realistic view. The Bengals are rebuilding. I'm admitting it. Others should too.

Yeah, but when you rebuild, you don't let 26 and 27 year old players walk out the door.

[BengalChris]

(02-28-2017, 11:48 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Here's the flaw with your math:

Eifert already counts for $4.7 million in cap space
Burfict already counts for $4.7 million in cap space

Even if you bump them both to $10 million per year, you only have to come up with $10 million in NEW money.

Rey's contract will be up, freeing up $3.75 million
Adam Jones could be cut freeing up $6.6 million.

So, really, you don't have to come up with any new money at all to re-sign those guys.

As of now, the Bengals 2018 cap number is $60 million, so there is plenty of money there to extend Burfict and Eifert - even if we use up $30 million of it to sign Dre, Z and Whitworth.

So, really, the math doesn't make any sense.

Your assessment of the 2018 is correct. We could also cut Rey and Jones this year and start saving right now.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-28-2017, 09:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sorry if this has already been explained but I am not going to read 8 pages of whining and crying to find out.

Mike Brown does not put unspent cap space into his pocket like some other owners.  Instead he rolls it over.

Each of the last two years the bengals have spoent ABOVE the league salary cap.  The were able to do this because of the money rolled over.  

Bengals are not ebing cheap.  The last two years they have been spending MORE than most other teams in the league on player salaries.

Didn't they roll over space this year too? How can you roll over space if you spend to cap or over it?

[BengalChris]

(02-28-2017, 09:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sorry if this has already been explained but I am not going to read 8 pages of whining and crying to find out.

Mike Brown does not put unspent cap space into his pocket like some other owners.  Instead he rolls it over.

Each of the last two years the bengals have spoent ABOVE the league salary cap.  The were able to do this because of the money rolled over.  

Bengals are not ebing cheap.  The last two years they have been spending MORE than most other teams in the league on player salaries.

That is only true sometimes.

In 2011 the team had $26M in cap space left over and didn't rollover a dime. 

[*ochocincos*]

(02-28-2017, 09:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sorry if this has already been explained but I am not going to read 8 pages of whining and crying to find out.

Mike Brown does not put unspent cap space into his pocket like some other owners.  Instead he rolls it over.

Each of the last two years the bengals have spoent ABOVE the league salary cap.  The were able to do this because of the money rolled over.  

Bengals are not ebing cheap.  The last two years they have been spending MORE than most other teams in the league on player salaries.

But if they only do spend about $15 million on this year's FA, they will be under the cap.
The only way the Bengals could spend over the salary cap and still only pay $15 million in FA this year is to put a great deal of the remaining money toward extending the upcoming 2018 FAs.
That list is headed by Eifert and Burfict. This list also has players like Jeremy Hill and Russell Bodine, but IMO those players are not worth extending. It also should not cost $15 million in cap space to extend both Eifert and Burfict.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-01-2017, 10:30 AM)ochocincos Wrote: But if they only do spend about $15 million on this year's FA, they will be under the cap.
The only way the Bengals could spend over the salary cap and still only pay $15 million in FA this year is to put a great deal of the remaining money toward extending the upcoming 2018 FAs.
That list is headed by Eifert and Burfict. This list also has players like Jeremy Hill and Russell Bodine, but IMO those players are not worth extending. It also should not cost $15 million in cap space to extend both Eifert and Burfict.

Burfict may make about $7-8 million a year if they extend him.

They could chose to let him go to free agency and low ball him...as there are some teams that won't want his on-field antics. All it takes is one team to make a huge offer though.