Lapham says . . .

[Shake n Blake]

(03-22-2017, 01:14 PM)Whatever Wrote: Even if you just use Ross in a Chris Henry role, he'll make an immediate impact, though.  To me, I would go with a 4.22 guy who already is a good route runner at 9 over a  low-mid 4.4 guy who needs a lot of work in 4-6. With Ross's speed, they are going to get the ball in his hands.  Another reason I like him is Ross had a very high success rate on the deep post route in college, and Dalton had the highest success rate in the league on the deep post last year.  A 4.22 guy that runs a great deep post combined with the best deep post thrower in the league is a dangerous combo.

Admittedly, I wasn't really that familiar with Ross. I haven't been studying WR's nearly as much as RB's and DE's. So I looked up Ross and it sounds like he's a guy who could come in, start and be an impact player. He doesn't sound like a project.

I bolded the things I liked on his scouting report:

Quote:STRENGTHS

 Has home-run gear to yank the top off of defenses. Vertical speed demands respect and creates open throws underneath. Corners open hips early to turn and sprint, leaving his curl and dig routes unchallenged. Feet are fire. On verticals from the slot, sells the corner route and stems to the post with a burst for easy separation and a comfortable throwing window for the quarterback. Hands are generally solid. Plus hand-eye coordination. Natural ball-tracker who locates the deep ball early and watches it. Dangerous show-and-go open-field ability after the catch. Able to win with slants or fades near the goal line. Eludes the first tackler and can turn a short one into a long one in a heartbeat. Has enough size to work from outside or from the slot. Saw four of his eight carries go for 15-plus yards. Has returned at least one kickoff for a touchdown in each of his three years at Washington.

Here's what stood out to me on his weaknesses though...

Quote:WEAKNESSES

 Undersized with below-average play strength. Struggled to get into his routes cleanly and impact the game against the physical cornerbacks at Alabama. Weight will creep too far out over his toes at times. Tape shows occasional stumbles over nothing but turf in his routes and after the catch. Needs to do better job of working back to the throw. Has to learn to make contested catches. Will need to sharpen his short and intermediate routes to become a true three-level target. Has had a major injury to both knees. The long-term health of both knees will be a concern that has to be answered at the combine.

Quote:BOTTOM LINE

 Ross is an instant-impact weapon who scored 23 touchdowns in just 112 touches. He should be able to step right in as a kick returner and a slot receiver, but teams with speed at tight end might utilize him outside to create extreme vertical stress on opposing safeties. If his knees check out as healthy, Ross is a likely first-round pick with the rare ability to become a high-volume slot receiver or a lesser-targeted, high-yield deep-ball threat.

I'd be happy with Ross as long as he was given every opportunity to take the job from LaFell. That said, if LaFell gets bumped down to #3...or even if Ross is our #3, it would mean that Boyd isn't getting any meaningful playing time. Fwiw, I don't think the Bengals will take a WR at #9 when they have AJ Green on the roster. I'm not saying that's a good thing, I just believe that's how the Bengals think.

[Benton]

I hope he's right on them preferring a pass rusher. But I'm expecting them to go receiver (WR or TE).

[*wildcats forever*]

(03-20-2017, 10:18 AM)Au165 Wrote: He is a mid 1st guy, here is the thing though if he is your guy at 15 he needs to be your guy at 9 otherwise he probably shouldn't have been your guy at 15. The reason I say that is at the end of the season no one is going to care you picked him 6 picks too early or too late they will care about production. Now when you start talking taking guys whole rounds ahead I agree, but when your talking about early mid late I think you just have to get your guy if it's your guy because he isn't making it to the next round. The whole trade back thing always sounds good, but getting those deals done during the draft doesn't always work out.

I agree with this philosophy, especially if you're within 10 picks of where we are and where a players rating falls. IF he fills a need and is the BPA at that position, draft him, coach him, start him, and reap the rewards.

[Bengal Dude]

(03-21-2017, 09:28 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Well we're not exactly beggars, so we can be choosers. I'm fine with taking developmental WRs, but not with a top 10 pick. Any player drafted top 10 should be polished enough to start day 1, if he's not, give me the guy who is. Even if it's a different need or position.

So it looks like we have a stand off. Me and Milksheikh vs you and BengalDude. Where are we meeting to settle this like men? 

Here's the thing. When I said bring along a WR slowly, I was referring to the Bengals philosophy. They believe WRs and CBs take the longest to develop. If we take a WR at #9 and he shows that he can play, then LaFell needs to be on the bench unless we're in a 4 WR set. I know we've heard Marvin say that the guy that comes in the first round has to make an impact, but I'll believe it when I see it. Marvin has given us lip service before.


Anyways, I'll still fight you.

[McC]

(03-21-2017, 06:07 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Yeah, and with this draft class the BPA could be a CB.

Doubtful.  Lattimore will be gone and none of the other CB's are top ten.  If Lattimore was somehow there, now you have a tough decision.

[McC]

John Ross is the guy who would have the most immediate and dynamic impact this year, imo.

[fortyyearfan]

(03-20-2017, 04:59 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think pass rusher is like...a 90% chance at this point.

I truly believe they will go defense with the ninth pick.There are plenty of excellent receivers that will be available in the rounds of 2-6.Everyone seems to fall in love with mike mayocks picks as best one through 5.and yes they are the top wrs.However they are some super good ones still available that don't get the press they deserve, and our staff and DuKEToblin will find them and I am sure they are already on our draft board. I see our mighty BENGALS getting 3 defensive players, another center and tackle,a middle linebacker to replace rey rey and a safety,cornerback to start with.


Guys we have 11 picks,that is just a blast to even think of.Keep the mocks coming,its fun to see who everyone is picking.
Stay strong,Bengal fans,remember we still have a team here and alot of cities would kill to be in our shoes.I really think we are going to surprise folks. And I think if given the chance,Cody Core will be a weapon and be a game changer.Dude is big and strong and runs like a deer with a wolf-pack after him. 
LETS GO,LETS GET AFTER IT.

[Steve]

(03-17-2017, 11:15 PM)Shady Wrote: Just heard Lapham predict we go pass rusher at #9.

If one of our top pass rushers isn't there at 9 who is worth that high of a pick, we go "receiver."

So, that could mean Solomon Thomas, the most likely pass rusher to be there?

He didn't specify WR or TE, but we might assume WR. In my mind, that's Ross or Davis.

Doesn't Lap have some kind of record of being good at predicting our picks?

Lapham predicted Tyler Eifert correctly......I was shocked he would of still been on the board at our pick that year...I was very impressed w/ Lap's call....he knows this team inside & out...imo he's Mr. Bengal...  haha 

[SunsetBengal]

(03-22-2017, 08:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: And Boyd, and the running game....

We already have enough receivers.  The truth is, there are game changing receivers that come out, every season.  Bengals or any team can get one just about any draft.  The problem still lies with the OL.

Yes, I know that this is considered a weak class for OL.  I think that the Bengals could slide back, and go for Ryan Ramczyk (sp?) as the NEW LT of the future.  I have complete confidence in Andre Smith to not only win the starting job at RG, but to look better than he ever did at RT.  Face it, in a phone booth, Andre Smith is a bad mofo. 

So, unless the Bengals squeeze the trigger on a DE at 9, I would fully expect them to trade back and reap the benefits. 

[McC]

(03-22-2017, 09:33 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: We already have enough receivers.  The truth is, there are game changing receivers that come out, every season.  Bengals or any team can get one just about any draft.  The problem still lies with the OL.

Yes, I know that this is considered a weak class for OL.  I think that the Bengals could slide back, and go for Ryan Ramczyk (sp?) as the NEW LT of the future.  I have complete confidence in Andre Smith to not only win the starting job at RG, but to look better than he ever did at RT.  Face it, in a phone booth, Andre Smith is a bad mofo. 

So, unless the Bengals squeeze the trigger on a DE at 9, I would fully expect them to trade back and reap the benefits. 

There's no guarantee there will be a trading partner.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-22-2017, 10:27 PM)McC Wrote: There's no guarantee there will be a trading partner.

Oh, I understand.  And, it's not likely that Duke Tobin is on the phone saying, "Hey, this is the Bengals, wanna trade?".

[BenZoo2]

(03-22-2017, 10:27 PM)McC Wrote: There's no guarantee there will be a trading partner.

That's true.  But I am willing to bet they get calls.  Somewhere on the boards it seems that I read someone post the bengals don't see a difference between players 9-20.  I doubt their top 8 include qb's, but maybe 1 is on there.  If their top 8 are gone they should trade back

[Shake n Blake]

(03-22-2017, 10:27 PM)McC Wrote: There's no guarantee there will be a trading partner.

There's never a guarantee, but I'd bet they get calls considering the QB's like Watson and (maybe) Kizer that should still be available at 9. Not to mention other top talent. There's a lot of things that have to fall in place for a trade to occur, but I'd bet they get a few calls. Just depends on whether they're enticed more by the deal or the player sitting in front of them.

[Whatever]

(03-22-2017, 11:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: There's never a guarantee, but I'd bet they get calls considering the QB's like Watson and (maybe) Kizer that should still be available at 9. Not to mention other top talent. There's a lot of things that have to fall in place for a trade to occur, but I'd bet they get a few calls. Just depends on whether they're enticed more by the deal or the player sitting in front of them.

A team looking to move up for a QB would likely deal with the Bills now that they've resigned Taylor or the Saints before us because the cost will be less.  The big leverage we had before was teams trying to jump the Bills, and that's gone.  

[Whatever]

(03-22-2017, 11:04 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: That's true.  But I am willing to bet they get calls.  Somewhere on the boards it seems that I read someone post the bengals don't see a difference between players 9-20.  I doubt their top 8 include qb's, but maybe 1 is on there.  If their top 8 are gone they should trade back

I think that there have been several people who have floated the idea that maybe the Bengals don't see a difference between 9-20 to justify a trade down, but I've seen nothing from the Bengals to indicate this, and if they did say this, it's probably a smokescreen.  In fact, Marvin's comments that 11 draft picks aren't going to make this roster seems to indicate that they have little desire to move down and stockpile more picks.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-22-2017, 09:33 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: We already have enough receivers.  The truth is, there are game changing receivers that come out, every season.  Bengals or any team can get one just about any draft.  The problem still lies with the OL.

Yes, I know that this is considered a weak class for OL.  I think that the Bengals could slide back, and go for Ryan Ramczyk (sp?) as the NEW LT of the future.  I have complete confidence in Andre Smith to not only win the starting job at RG, but to look better than he ever did at RT.  Face it, in a phone booth, Andre Smith is a bad mofo. 

So, unless the Bengals squeeze the trigger on a DE at 9, I would fully expect them to trade back and reap the benefits. 

I completely disagree about receivers.  They are like CBs.  You can't have enough of them.  And one injury to AJ Green again and who creates separation?  The problem does still lie with the offensive line.  The talent at LT for this draft aren't worthy of a top 10 pick.  The WRs absolutely are, but the teams at the top all need defense, so one should be there for the Bengals (although we really need a RDE also, I think the big 3 are gone at 9).  

A burner like Ross, IMHO, is the missing piece to our offense.  It makes everything work.  I really, really want him or Davis,

That being said, my biggest FEAR about this team (and it is a substantial one) is LT.  That is why I suggested sliding in another thread and gaining an additional 2nd rounder, drafting Ross, and then trading BACK IN toward the end of round 1 and getting Robinson.  If he is still there at, say #27, I would offer our 2nd rounder and 3rd rounder to that team to get him.  We would still have the second rounder from the initial slide to get a pass-rushing RDE like Jordan Willis and have that extra year before FA for Robinson.  

Drafting Robinson would provide immediate competition at the LT spot for Ced (and I don't care who you are, competition improves the breed).  If Ced wins the spot over Robinson, you put Robinson at RG and you will likely have an all-pro for years to come.  I agree that Smith belongs at RG, but I just have serious reservations that he can stay healthy.  I know they have Westerman and even TJ Johnson for depth, but Smith could be a beast at RG if healthy, no doubt.

If Robinson wins the job at LT, we have our LT for 5 years locked up at a bargain price, and Ced would simply be the extra TE before being released after his contract expires.  He can't move to Guard (no sand in his pants) and he could be the backup LT and RT and we just pray the other two don't get injured.

This would provide a better plan at LT than simply "we hope Ced works out".  This answers the question they have to ask "what if he doesn't".

[Shake n Blake]

(03-23-2017, 12:55 AM)Whatever Wrote: A team looking to move up for a QB would likely deal with the Bills now that they've resigned Taylor or the Saints before us because the cost will be less.  The big leverage we had before was teams trying to jump the Bills, and that's gone.  

Fair point, but it's possible those 2 teams won't want to trade down.

[BenZoo2]

(03-23-2017, 01:03 AM)Whatever Wrote: I think that there have been several people who have floated the idea that maybe the Bengals don't see a difference between 9-20 to justify a trade down, but I've seen nothing from the Bengals to indicate this, and if they did say this, it's probably a smokescreen.  In fact, Marvin's comments that 11 draft picks aren't going to make this roster seems to indicate that they have little desire to move down and stockpile more picks.

And you won't see anything from the bengals to indicate anything about their draft plans. If Marvin thinks 11 picks won't make the team, and he's probably right, it doesn't preclude a trade down for an extra 2 or 3rd. And they should be looking to bundle say a 5 and a 6 or 7 if there is some one in the 4th they like. The sweet spot will be rounds 2-4. Give me more in this range and less overall and I'd gladly take it


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[Steve]

(03-18-2017, 02:51 AM)Shady Wrote: So would i. I was a little shocked Lap didn't mention him as a possibility. 

just my opinion but maybe Lap thought Fournette would already be off the board at our #9 pick.....many mocks show him going to the j-e-t-s or the panthers....
& on a related note...imo T.J. Watt will not be on the board at our 2nd rd pick spot #41.....be nice if he was though....he'd be a great pick for us...

[The_WiseOne]

IMO John Ross would be a mistake I mean Dalton already under throws AJ Green most of the time now!!
AJ Green will have two to five yards on his guy then Andy throws it and AJ has to slow down to catch it Green makes Dalton look way better than he is you know how many more yards and TDs Green would have if Andy would throw it 5 more yards down field????!!!!!!
What do you think would happen with a way faster receiver????