IF You Ever Wonder About the Bengals Not Having Any Money

[*bengalfan74*]

(04-02-2017, 06:01 PM)jowczarski Wrote: @ShakeNBlake - I just feel there's some folks on here who will take what you said and run with it, using it as an excuse for how Mike runs things.

Whit and DreKirk have complained in the past. I only know because I've posted the links in past debates on the subject. 

I got ya. While my job is to, technically, be an authority on the Bengals (and I feel I am concerning the current club) I am not afraid to say I don’t know it all and I definitely can get things wrong (though I think my track record is pretty good).

Whit/Dre and pulling up the old bubble stories: That’s valid and they said what they said. I guess perhaps it’s because in 2015 they were trying to get homefield advantage and last year, well, was last year. Perhaps if they were another 10-win wildcard team having to go to Miami and it was a 10-degree snowy stretch in Cincy it may come up again.

@bengalfan74
Great research!

Time for my opinion on the thought on an indoor practice “facility.” Let’s toss aside money.

As someone who has been around the club for three years now, there are some logistical issues with that. They have three, 100-yard fields next to PBS. Should they do an indoor facility there, the right way (i.e. permanent)  – you’re probably down to a single 100 yard field with maybe some side space for rehabbing guys? They use all of those fields for practice, every day.

So…when it’s September / October an 55 degrees in November…where are they practicing?

The Packers, the only other team I covered, also has three, 100-yard fields – it’s just that one of them is the Hutson Center and it’s enclosed.

That permanent structure on that site means you’re heading elsewhere for training camp again.

Or, you’re talking about the team moving it’s whole base of operations to a separate facility in … where? NKY? Out in the northern burbs? The club spent millions (yes, the club) on its new indoor workout space, 20-yard field and cafeteria. Now you’re pulling your guys away from all that.

Look – I get it. Some players complain. It would look like the Bengals are “keeping up” with the rest of the league. But they would have to totally change their training camp and day-to-day routines in 2017 – which would include more bus rides.

If you want a real solution – that concrete factory and parking lot on the river front across from PBS would likely have to get bought out and all re-done to help make an indoor facility happen.

Thanks Jim,

I think I can speak for everybody here in saying we really appreciate the time you take to spend with us here ! You give us much insight into the bigger picture and/or other angles we would never have. Please keep it up as much as you can.

Bravo Zulu

As to the indoor facility the only thing I can add for whatever it's worth :

With many things in life you're either growing or dying, there is no staying the same. Basically the entire NFL and many College teams now have indoor facilities. They have them for a reason. There's no reason not to keep pace and stay up with the times.

In the late 70's and early 80's when I was playing HS football we had 1 little dixie cup, 12 ounces ? full of dust and grass covered water waiting for us on the bench on the practice field on a 90 degree late July summer afternoon. We weren't allowed to take our helmets off and that 1 cup was all we got for a 2 hour or more practice. Toughen us up ya know ?

Needless to say, they don't do that anymore. There's no reason for Mike Brown in my opinion to think he's gaining an edge or whatever by not joining the league and modern times giving his players a chance to stay up with the crowd, is there ?

[Shake n Blake]

(04-02-2017, 08:18 PM)jowczarski Wrote: Interesting. I'm sure Marvin still wants it. Not sure where that "movement" towards one went when the team redid a bunch of the interior training elements inside PBS (maybe that was the trade off to some degree). Next time I get a chance to run it by someone, I will.

But the reality of it at this point would be a multi-million investment away from PBS and, if it's done right, IMO, moving the entire team's base of operations out of the stadium the people paid for it to be.

It doesn't make much sense to me for them to build, say, a single $25 million permanent dome somewhere in NKY they use a few times a winter and have to bus to and from.

1. I'd love to know what happened to those plans.
2. That also crossed my mind (that maybe the 20 yard field was a compromise)
3. Personally, I've always thought they should just use a couple of the fields next to PBS. If they need to practice outdoors, they should still have the 3rd field (that was barely used when I went to TC in 2013), or they could practice in PBS. Just spitballing, but I think they could make it work if they really wanted to.

[jfkbengals]

(04-02-2017, 12:38 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am not an accountant or an attorney so don't know the legal interpretation nor the accounting methods used. Help me understand how the Pats can give Brady a 28 million signing bonus in year one 14 million and  in year 2 million again, spread it (leverage it) over the life of the contract, but in your scenario not count it against debt? I am just trying to understand it because it seems very cloudy to me, but again no expert. 

It's paid up front.  It isn't leveraged in any way.  As for cap accounting, it does get spread out (think depreciation of assets), but it is not an actual liability as it has already been paid.

[jfkbengals]

(04-02-2017, 12:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Lol thanks for clearing that up. 

I get that Mike can do what he wants as owner of the team. I've been all too aware of that for 25 years now. I just have to wonder if the fact that Mike Brown runs this team a little "differently" has something to do with why this team hasn't won a playoff game since he took over. The team with the smallest personnel department and scouting staff...and no practice facility...also happens to be the one rocking a historical streak of playoff ineptitude. 

I'm sure it's total coincidence though. Bad luck or something.

The Bills are nipping at our heels at 21 years, but they have a big personnel department and staff.  Just sayin'

[Shake n Blake]

(04-04-2017, 09:46 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: The Bills are nipping at our heels at 21 years, but they have a big personnel department and staff.  Just sayin'

So 1 of the 31 teams that does things the right way happens to be almost as bad as we are? That's what you're going with? C'mon man...

You could've also mentioned the Lions to bump it up to 2 teams. Meanwhile somewhere around 25 teams have been to a Super Bowl during our dubious streak. Why defend Mike Brown's methods when they clearly don't work? Are we Mike Brown fans or Bengals fans?

[XenoMorph]

(03-27-2017, 10:35 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: During free agency there was some thought that maybe the Bengals didn't pursue "big ticket" free agents because they aren't flush with cash.

Well, the recent locations will net Mike Brown over $50 million.  That should get rid of any excuse next season if someone wonders if they have any extra cash laying around.

http://nyg.247sports.com/Bolt/NFL-owners-set-to-make-53-million-each-from-recent-relocations-51999633

they simple don't over pay.... you see lots of bad teams throwing money at guys then have to make cuts elsewhere and stay bad teams lol

[Shake n Blake]

(04-05-2017, 12:09 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: they simple don't over pay.... you see lots of bad teams throwing money at guys then have to make cuts elsewhere and stay bad teams lol

How many of the 100+ free agents this off-season were "overpaid"?

Most free agents are like Minter. They get fair value. Only the top dogs in FA (like Zeitler and Whit) get overpaid, and even then it's not like they were massively overpaid.

PS...good teams sign free agents too.

[ItsOdellThurman]

I read where the Raiders have the most cap room in the NFL right now? Like over 31M? Crazy. Makes you wonder how the Bengals got so far behind as the Raiders are already a better team with a better roster.

[*Go Cards*]

(04-02-2017, 09:40 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Thanks Jim,

I think I can speak for everybody here in saying we really appreciate the time you take to spend with us here ! You give us much insight into the bigger picture and/or other angles we would never have. Please keep it up as much as you can.

Bravo Zulu

As to the indoor facility the only thing I can add for whatever it's worth :

With many things in life you're either growing or dying, there is no staying the same. Basically the entire NFL and many College teams now have indoor facilities. They have them for a reason. There's no reason not to keep pace and stay up with the times.

In the late 70's and early 80's when I was playing HS football we had 1 little dixie cup, 12 ounces ? full of dust and grass covered water waiting for us on the bench on the practice field on a 90 degree late July summer afternoon. We weren't allowed to take our helmets off and that 1 cup was all we got for a 2 hour or more practice. Toughen us up ya know ?

Needless to say, they don't do that anymore. There's no reason for Mike Brown in my opinion to think he's gaining an edge or whatever by not joining the league and modern times giving his players a chance to stay up with the crowd, is there ?

Lucky the did not kill us all with the amount of water they gave us back in the day. Can remember them saying no more than two swallows or you will cramp up. lol

and this was after they had you take a salt pill. The coach grabbing you by the face mask if a mistake was made jerking you toward him while berating you then giving you a head slap on your way back out. 

Ah the good old days. 

There is no excuse for an NFL team not having a indoor practice field imo. Should have an indoor and outdoor to be used at the coaches discretion.  

[OrlandoBengal]

(04-05-2017, 12:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: How many of the 100+ free agents this off-season were "overpaid"?

Most free agents are like Minter. They get fair value. Only the top dogs in FA (like Zeitler and Whit) get overpaid, and even then it's not like they were massively overpaid.

PS...good teams sign free agents too.

Not to mention, who exactly determines what is "over paid"?  If that one or two pieces puts you over the top and you win a Super Bowl, did you really overpay?  Even when a lesser team makes a big signing, that is often times as much about generating excitement and good will with the fan base as it is about football.

Many Bengals fans have bought into this idea that good teams don't bring in outside free agents, "they are always over paid", "if they were really any good, they would not be on the open market", etc. and it's just not true.  It is mind boggling to me that we are to somehow believe a team that has gone almost three decades without a single playoff win knows better than the rest of the league...

[*Go Cards*]

(04-05-2017, 12:39 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Not to mention, who exactly determines what is "over paid"?  If that one or two pieces puts you over the top and you win a Super Bowl, did you really overpay?  Even when a lesser team makes a big signing, that is often times as much about generating excitement and good will with the fan base as it is about football.

Many Bengals fans have bought into this idea that good teams don't bring in outside free agents, "they are always over paid", "if they were really any good, they would not be on the open market", etc. and it's just not true.  It is mind boggling to me that we are to somehow believe a team that has gone almost three decades without a single playoff win knows better than the rest of the league...

Amen 

No modern practice facilities, hardly ever bringing in top FA, and no GM and they think they are keeping up with the Jone's. 

Believe the owner being the GM is the biggest obstacle. Yet think we all know that if there was one hired he would have to be a MB puppet.   

[THE PISTONS]

(04-05-2017, 12:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: How many of the 100+ free agents this off-season were "overpaid"?

Most free agents are like Minter. They get fair value. Only the top dogs in FA (like Zeitler and Whit) get overpaid, and even then it's not like they were massively overpaid.

PS...good teams sign free agents too.

Agreed. Add 3 guys ranked between 40-80 and the team gets a lot better.

Instead...some people act like we're all advocating dishing out $100 million contracts.

A guy like Minter was a GREAT move.