Dalton our Hasselbeck?

[Lawless_1]

(05-18-2015, 01:29 AM)B=======D Wrote: If the game comes down to him throwing us to victory... I don't have much confidence.

How does B equal D seven times?

You might want to freshen up them math skills.

[Brownshoe]

(05-18-2015, 01:29 AM)B=======D Wrote: If the game comes down to him throwing us to victory... I don't have much confidence.

40-21-1 and 33 tds 4300 yards that should give you some confidence. You should watch some other QBs in the league. Dalton can get us where we want to go.

[CINwillWIN]

(05-18-2015, 01:37 AM)Gordon Fishsticks Wrote: How does B equal D seven times?

You might want to freshen up them math skills.

I suck at math.

I'm more of a 'visual' learner...

[CINwillWIN]

(05-18-2015, 01:41 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: 40-21-1 and 33 tds 4300 yards that should give you some confidence. You should watch some other QBs in the league. Dalton can get us where we want to go.

That's fantastic...I'd prefer a playoff win. I've seen other QBs win playoff games. Haven't seen him win one yet. Until then, nope...no confidence.

[wolfkaosaun]

(05-18-2015, 12:03 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: To answer your question; we should try and upgrade the position. I think Dalton can keep this team competitive during the regular season but QB play in the playoffs is imperative if you want to advance.

Bottom line is it's very hard to win championships with mediocre QBs like Dalton.

It's hard to upgrade the position, especially after last year. There were no real upgrades over Dalton. So we have to wait and see what he can do this year, again. Next year's draft, however, has a ton of interesting prospects.

(05-18-2015, 12:08 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: You might be on to something here wolf ! After the NE game last season one could see Andy's confidence slipping away. I'm not sure what the answer is but what they were doing last year obviously didn't work.

I remember seeing Coley Harvey (ESPN's Bengals writer) wrote a lot about how Hue Jackson and Marvin Lewis tried to get it into Dalton's head to "not make the mistake".

I feel there were numerous times where Dalton remembered that, so it over-ridden his "make a play" mentality.

(05-18-2015, 12:31 AM)Stormborn Wrote: I liked aggressive Dalton better than passive Dalton. Assuming everyone stays relatively healthy, this is by far his best alignment of weapons.

Kill the smart QB inside of him, and let the wild crazy ginger gunslinger be born.

We already know what he can do. He's going to throw interceptions, why not reach his ceiling?

That's what the Saints did with Brees. They both have similar playing styles. It just takes a coordinator to get the most out of his guy. Dalton is not a game manager. He is a gun-slinger. He's going to make good plays but dumb ones as well.

[Stormborn]

(05-18-2015, 12:53 AM)B=======D Wrote: What comes off as 'smart'?

'crazy gunslinger'...seen that too when the team chokes and abandons the running game which then the coaches allow him to throw interceptions.

Andy should just hand off, then have the element of surprise in his back pocket if he can complete a 30/40 yard pass when called upon.

Using Andy less and less is a good thing.

They drilled the mentality of "a thrown away pass is bettere than a turnover" into his head and made him passive. In about 80 less attempts he only threw 3 less interceptions, not the ratio we were hoping for.

So if that didn't exactly keep the turnovers down, how exactly are you gonna do it from a coaching perspective?

You can't exactly run more, as we were around the league leaders in rushes. You still keep the running mentality, but you can't minimize your QB and expect to win consistently. Let him be free, keep his attempts around the same number but don't hold him back on what to do with them. The turnovers are gonna happen either way, but this way gets more production.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-18-2015, 08:19 AM)Stormborn Wrote: They drilled the mentality of "a thrown away pass is bettere than a turnover" into his head and made him passive. In about 80 less attempts he only threw 3 less interceptions, not the ratio we were hoping for.

So if that didn't exactly keep the turnovers down, how exactly are you gonna do it from a coaching perspective?

You can't exactly run more, as we were around the league leaders in rushes. You still keep the running mentality, but you can't minimize your QB and expect to win consistently. Let him be free, keep his attempts around the same number but don't hold him back on what to do with them. The turnovers are gonna happen either way, but this way gets more production.

Exactly ! It's not about trying to ride Dalton's arm, it's about quit trying to mold him into something (remember the unscripted plays) ? It's about just shut up and let him play.

[djs7685]

(05-18-2015, 01:41 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: 40-21-1 and 33 tds 4300 yards that should give you some confidence. You should watch some other QBs in the league. Dalton can get us where we want to go.

0-4, 53 INT over the last 3 years, and the fact that he can't even hit a miserable 70 passer rating in the playoffs should give you some skepticism.

Look, I'm on record saying that I believe in Andy and I think he can prove a lot of us wrong in 2015, but I'm not going to pretend that there aren't plenty of things to be worried about with him. I know that you're much higher on Andy than most, but you should at least understand why everybody else in the world doesn't share your point of view.

There aren't heated debates over whether Aaron Rodgers is a good QB or not. There aren't heated debates over whether Brandon Weeden is a good QB or not. The reason JN has always been so crazy over Andy is because he isn't a slam dunk good or bad QB. There are plenty of attributes that show both sides, and I don't think either extreme side is correct when they say that Andy absolutely CAN get us there, or that Andy absolutely CAN'T get us there.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-18-2015, 01:29 AM)B=======D Wrote: If the game comes down to him throwing us to victory... I don't have much confidence.

I've never understood why a lot of people feel that way.

Dalton has averaged more 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives than Palmer did, and some thought Palmer was clutch.

He also has a better 4th quarter rating and is less likely to turn the ball over than Palmer.

[djs7685]

(05-18-2015, 12:59 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I've never understood why a lot of people feel that way.

Dalton has averaged more 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives than Palmer did, and some thought Palmer was clutch.

He also has a better 4th quarter rating and is less likely to turn the ball over than Palmer.

It seems to be a common misconception of Andy (at least in JN).

Andy isn't the QB that's going to be hitting throws all day and then magically disappears in the 4th quarter and loses his cool.

I'm worried about Andy when you see him come out of the gates throwing ducks, and you just KNOW it's going to be one of those loooong days for him.

[Junglejuice]

(05-18-2015, 01:29 AM)B=======D Wrote: If the game comes down to him throwing us to victory... I don't have much confidence.

Actually the only bad year he had was the one they took the ball out of his hand.

Guy is a rhythm thrower.
Let him do what he does best then run the ball down their throat when they back off the line.

[CornerBlitz]

(05-18-2015, 01:06 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I'm worried about Andy when you see him come out of the gates throwing ducks, and you just KNOW it's going to be one of those loooong days for him.

He has too many of those games. With Dalton everything has to be perfect otherwise you get a very erratic QB that loses his confidence fast.

There comes a point in time (5th year) where you need to start playing more consistent and we still have yet to see that consistency that gives us confidence in him.

In all honesty I'm not sure what to do at QB other than drafting one with higher potential and hope for the best. If there are trades out there I'd be for that as well.

[*Nately120*]

(05-18-2015, 12:59 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I've never understood why a lot of people feel that way.

Dalton has averaged more 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives than Palmer did, and some thought Palmer was clutch.

He also has a better 4th quarter rating and is less likely to turn the ball over than Palmer.

Yea, but Palmer wasn't blessed with a lot of good defenses while he was here, and according to some people if the defense is bad then the QB can be expected to throw multiple picks and 0 TDs!

[Shake n Blake]

(05-18-2015, 01:06 PM)djs7685 Wrote: It seems to be a common misconception of Andy (at least in JN).

Andy isn't the QB that's going to be hitting throws all day and then magically disappears in the 4th quarter and loses his cool.

I'm worried about Andy when you see him come out of the gates throwing ducks, and you just KNOW it's going to be one of those loooong days for him.

Exactly. It's amazing how quickly you can tell if it's going to be a bad day for Dalton.

If he's on, he's fine. If he sails a couple 10 feet over the receiver's head, you know it's going to be a tough game to watch.

[wolfkaosaun]

(05-18-2015, 03:42 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yea, but Palmer wasn't blessed with a lot of good defenses while he was here, and according to some people if the defense is bad then the QB can be expected to throw multiple picks and 0 TDs!

In 2005 he had a defense that had 26 turnovers. For 3 years, that defense was great at turning the ball over. They had 79 interceptions in 4 years (04-07). That's averaging almost 20 interceptions a year.

In 2009 he had a top 5 defense and Chad Ochocinco was actually team first; plus they had a strong running game with Benson.

But Palmer also threw for as many interceptions as Dalton in their first 64 games (66). Palmer did have more touchdowns (105) than Dalton (99), but also more fumbles. Dalton has 11, Palmer had 25.

While I believe Palmer deserves credit for what he's done, let's not act like he didn't have flaws.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-18-2015, 02:15 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: He has too many of those games. With Dalton everything has to be perfect otherwise you get a very erratic QB that loses his confidence fast.

There comes a point in time (5th year) where you need to start playing more consistent and we still have yet to see that consistency that gives us confidence in him.

In all honesty I'm not sure what to do at QB other than drafting one with higher potential and hope for the best. If there are trades out there I'd be for that as well.

Meh. If you look at other QB's, most non-elite guys will have somewhere between 3-6 bad games per year. It happens.

It's not how often Dalton has a bad game, it just how horrific he is in those bad games.

If he could get to the point where his bad games were rated in the 70's, I'd be just fine with keeping him.

As it stands, his bad games are usually rated in the 50's or below. Those types of games make it hard to win.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(05-18-2015, 03:42 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yea, but Palmer wasn't blessed with a lot of good defenses while he was here, and according to some people if the defense is bad then the QB can be expected to throw multiple picks and 0 TDs!

I don't think that's the point people make...the point is Dalton gets all the blame while Mike Zimmer went unscathed as his defenses shit the bed hard in the playoffs.

[BengalChris]

(05-17-2015, 01:38 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I was talking with my friend the other day who has been a lifelong Seattle fan, and we were making a comparison between Dalton and Hasselbeck. Both guys turned terrible franchises around into decent ones. I can remember a time when the Seahawks were much like us, they were constantly on the cusp of making the playoffs or losing in the wildcard round.

Hasselbeck one time said "We want the ball, we are going to score" after winning the coin toss in overtime. He then tossed a pick 6 to give the game away to the Packers, which is something I can almost envision happening to Dalton! Just imagine how the fans would react lol. Both guys have a knack for making boneheaded plays at bad moments.

In the end, Hasselbeck did get the team to the superbowl, which gives me a little faith in Dalton, even if the Seahawks did get screwed by the Steelers and Refs when they were there (something we are familiar with as well).

Both guys are average QBs, who helped struggling franchises, but still relied heavily on their teammates, and couldn't necessarily carry the team alone. Hasselbeck had Sean Alexander, and hopefully our Jeremy Hill will have similar success, for a longer period of time.

With both guys, it is tough to argue they are anything more than average, but have the capability of helping your team win consistently. In the end, with both guys, the conversations usually end with their hairstyle.    

Does this give anyone hope that Dalton can pull it together, or should we move on and look for our Russel Wilson?

You give Dalton more credit than I do.

(05-18-2015, 04:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Meh. If you look at other QB's, most non-elite guys will have somewhere between 3-6 bad games per year. It happens.

It's not how often Dalton has a bad game, it just how horrific he is in those bad games.

If he could get to the point where his bad games were rated in the 70's, I'd be just fine with keeping him.

As it stands, his bad games are usually rated in the 50's or below. Those types of games make it hard to win.

Yep.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-18-2015, 09:03 PM)BengalChris Wrote: You give Dalton more credit than I do.

I said he helped a struggling franchise... that is too much? haha

How much credit do you give Dalton for our turnaround after the ocho-TO season?

[CINwillWIN]

(05-18-2015, 04:36 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I don't think that's the point people make...the point is Dalton gets all the blame while Mike Zimmer went unscathed as his defenses shit the bed hard in the playoffs.

The Defense struggled because they were on the field longer...supposed to be the other way around. Keep their Defense on the field Offense... Honestly get Brat flashbacks when we have to play a damn playoff game.

(05-18-2015, 10:15 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I said he helped a struggling franchise... that is too much? haha

How much credit do you give Dalton for our turnaround after the ocho-TO season?

I give him as much credit as any other person on the roster/staff that season...including the punter.