Who will win the division?

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-02-2015, 02:45 PM)GMDino Wrote: In my OP was I referencing THIS team...If you want to go back to the 70's and 80's we can do that too.  

Although 2005 didn't work out too well either.  

Ahh. Just as i suspected. You want to whittle it down to the last 4 years. In that case, you shouldn't use terminology like "they only ever won it". 

That way, i can see that you're proposing an argument that's not really worth engaging in. 

[GMDino]

(08-02-2015, 02:49 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Ahh. Just as i suspected. You want to whittle it down to the last 4 years. In that case, you shouldn't use terminology like "they only ever won it". 

That way, i can see that you're proposing an argument that's not really worth engaging in. 

No I was pretty clear I was talking about recent history.  Specifically while Dalton has been QB.  Which is why I said I didn't know HIS record int he division.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-02-2015, 03:13 PM)GMDino Wrote: No I was pretty clear I was talking about recent history.  Specifically while Dalton has been QB.  Which is why I said I didn't know HIS record int he division.

Well, i'll set aside the bad terminology and attempt to pigeon-hole the argument in your last 2 posts and focus on '13.

The Steelers went 6-2 down the stretch and were getting loads of props about how they had turned it around and were a real threat. The Ravens finished 4-2 down the stretch and were coming off a SB win.

The Bengals went 5-1 down the stretch to match those two teams and hold on to the division. Still seems like a good bit of "competition". 

But you're free to propose disingenuous arguments about how those two teams were only 8-8, and that's the reason the Bengals won the division. 

Overall, it looks like you've bitten off more than you can chew so you might want to consider just swallowing and being done with this meal. 

[*rfaulk34*]

And with that, i must be off to Bengals Training Camp.

Smack ya later!  

[Luvnit2]

(08-02-2015, 02:29 PM)GMDino Wrote: Don't you roll you eyes at me young, uh, man?

:snark:

A couple years ago was the first time the Ravens won the division AND the Steelers made the playoffs.  Until that time they only ever won it when the Steelers had a bad year.

For the Bengals to be true contenders they need to show they can win it with real competition within the division.  Wouldn't you agree?

Let's see you choose a 4 year period which begins with one team coming off a 4-12 season (Bengals) who have a veteran QB holding out so they draft a rookie QB, a rookie WR and have a rookie OC to compare against two teams that both have veteran QB's and feel the is an apples to apples comparison

But, once you look at it, yes the Bengal are 11-13 in the AFCN those 4 years. The Ravens are 16-10 (2nd best) and the Steelers best at 15-9. As you look further, the Bengals have the worst record over the 4 years against the last place Browns. Also, The Bengals had one negative division year at 2-4 and that was 2011 (rookie years of AD, AJ and Gruden) coming off of a 4-12 season.

If you look at those 4 years with the Bengals inexperienced QB versus experienced QB's Flacco and Ben, the Bengals have the best overall regular season record with 40-23-1 (made playoff all 4 years), 2nd and very close is the Ravens at 40-24 (they missed playoffs once) and the Steelers are 3rd at 39-25 (they missed playoffs twice)

The reality is we have 3 very good teams in the AFCN and the Browns are close to not being the doormat they have been to both the Ravens and the Steelers.

Yes, the Bengals need to do better against the Steelers and the Browns, but it could be argued the past 4 years, the Ravens struggle against the Bengals more so than against the Steelers or Browns.

[BFritz21]

(08-09-2015, 11:54 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Let's see you choose a 4 year period which begins with one team coming off a 4-12 season (Bengals) who have a veteran QB holding out so they draft a rookie QB, a rookie WR and have a rookie OC to compare against two teams that both have veteran QB's and feel the is an apples to apples comparison

But, once you look at it, yes the Bengal are 11-13 in the AFCN those 4 years. The Ravens are 16-10 (2nd best) and the Steelers best at 15-9. As you look further, the Bengals have the worst record over the 4 years against the last place Browns. Also, The Bengals had one negative division year at 2-4 and that was 2011 (rookie years of AD, AJ and Gruden) coming off of a 4-12 season.

If you look at those 4 years with the Bengals inexperienced QB versus experienced QB's Flacco and Ben, the Bengals have the best overall regular season record with 40-23-1 (made playoff all 4 years), 2nd and very close is the Ravens at 40-24 (they missed playoffs once) and the Steelers are 3rd at 39-25 (they missed playoffs twice)

The reality is we have 3 very good teams in the AFCN and the Browns are close to not being the doormat they have been to both the Ravens and the Steelers.

Yes, the Bengals need to do better against the Steelers and the Browns, but it could be argued the past 4 years, the Ravens struggle against the Bengals more so than against the Steelers or Browns.

We swept them last year, despite not having a solid run game because Hill hadn't yet begun to get the bulk of the carries (Gio had 48 and 45 yards and Hill had 19 and 25), so I look for a sweep of them and the Browns, along with most likely a split with the Steelers.

Ravens lost their entire d-line, their #2 and #3 receiving options (drafted a receiver with questionable hands), and their kick/punt returner, among other things.  

I feel great about our chances within the division this year.  The Steelers worry me with Ben, Brown, and Bell, but their defense was weak, and now they lost Worilds, which everyone is overlooking, so there's 7.5 sacks gone, along with the 5th most tackles, so who replaces that?  Losing Dick LeBeau will also hurt, despite what their fans say.

Browns don't concern me because they let Cameron walk and how long before there's a turmoil over people calling for Johnny 8-Ball?

[Luvnit2]

(07-23-2015, 12:08 PM)Stormborn Wrote: It's hard to win divisions when you can't eclipse 3-3 inside of it.

5-3 vs Cleveland
4-4 vs Baltimore
2-6 vs Pittsburgh

That's the next step we have to take.

I also feel they need to take the next step in the division.

Yet, the 4 years mentioned, the team with the best AFCN record made playoffs 2 of 4 years and has no playoff wins (Steelers)
The second best made it 3 of the 4 years with playoff success
The team that has 3rd best record (Bengals) made the playoffs all 4 years and also like the Steelers has no playoff wins.

The most successful playoff team within the AFCN the Ravens, we are 4-4 against during the AD era and again that includes his rookie year starting with no camp due to the strike.

[BmorePat87]

The Ravens lost their ENTIRE D LINE?!?!?

[BmorePat87]

(08-09-2015, 03:06 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The Ravens lost their ENTIRE D LINE?!?!?

Oh wait, just Ngata.

[BFritz21]

(08-09-2015, 03:10 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Oh wait, just Ngata.

My bad, just a rush linebacker, which the nose tackle and rush linebacker are the most important positions to a 3-4 (Talks about it around the 33 second mark).

So they lost the 2 most important parts of their d........

Thanks for the correction!  (Technically, though, you could call a rush linebacker a defensive end.)

Didn't Canty start, too?  Or wasn't he at least still getting heavy PT?

[*jason*]

(08-09-2015, 03:10 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Oh wait, just Ngata.

Yeah...  He's not very good.

[BmorePat87]

(08-09-2015, 06:49 PM)jason Wrote: Yeah...  He's not very good.

No, he's incredible. But he's one person, not a whole line.

[BmorePat87]

(08-09-2015, 06:45 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: My bad, just a rush linebacker, which the nose tackle and rush linebacker are the most important positions to a 3-4 (Talks about it around the 33 second mark).

So they lost the 2 most important parts of their d........

Thanks for the correction!  (Technically, though, you could call a rush linebacker a defensive end.)

Didn't Canty start, too?  Or wasn't he at least still getting heavy PT?

They lost their nose tackle and their 3rd best pass rusher (unless you want to argue McPhee is better than Dum or Suggs). I'm still not sure how that is "their entire line". 

Also Canty is still on the team...

[BFritz21]

(08-09-2015, 07:20 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: No, he's incredible. But he's one person, not a whole line.

But he was the biggest piece of the whole line because of his role in a 3-4.  

(08-09-2015, 07:29 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: They lost their nose tackle and their 3rd best pass rusher (unless you want to argue McPhee is better than Dum or Suggs). I'm still not sure how that is "their entire line". 

Also Canty is still on the team...

My fault........  they cut Canty and he was considering retirement after being injury plagued last season and only played in 11 games........  he's not exactly a world beater.  At 32 (33 by season's end), you might have been better off if he wasn't on the team.

See above about the nose tackle.

And third best pass rusher doesn't sound too important until you see that he had 7.5 sacks, which isn't something to take lightly.  

Dumervil, who had 17 sacks, has tendinitis, which has been limiting his training camp, and he's 31, so those things effect him more.

Suggs, who had 12, will be 33 a month into the season.

You really think they can keep producing that much at those ages and without Ngata?  

[Bmoreblitz]

(08-09-2015, 06:45 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: My bad, just a rush linebacker, which the nose tackle and rush linebacker are the most important positions to a 3-4 (Talks about it around the 33 second mark).

So they lost the 2 most important parts of their d........

Thanks for the correction!  (Technically, though, you could call a rush linebacker a defensive end.)

Didn't Canty start, too?  Or wasn't he at least still getting heavy PT?

Williams manned the Nose not Ngata. As Pat said McPhee was the 3rd best pass rusher. Big part of the rotation but not a starter. Canty is is still on the line.

Sheeeez

[BmorePat87]

(08-09-2015, 08:44 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: But he was the biggest piece of the whole line because of his role in a 3-4.  

My fault........  they cut Canty and he was considering retirement after being injury plagued last season and only played in 11 games........  he's not exactly a world beater.  At 32 (33 by season's end), you might have been better off if he wasn't on the team.

See above about the nose tackle.

And third best pass rusher doesn't sound too important until you see that he had 7.5 sacks, which isn't something to take lightly.  

Dumervil, who had 17 sacks, has tendinitis, which has been limiting his training camp, and he's 31, so those things effect him more.

Suggs, who had 12, will be 33 a month into the season.

You really think they can keep producing that much at those ages and without Ngata?  

They have two good players that will fill the hole. Obviously they're not going to be Ngata, but you don't need them to be. You just need them to work with that defense.

So, we're in agreement that we didn't lose our whole line?

[BmorePat87]

This is how brad argues:

1. He makes a HUGE overstatement

2. Someone points out that it was a huge overstatement and not true

3. He then argues a far lesser point and suggests that it makes his overstatement true.

[BmorePat87]

(08-09-2015, 08:54 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This is how brad argues:

1. He makes a HUGE overstatement

2. Someone points out that it was a huge overstatement and not true

3. He then argues a far lesser point and suggests that it makes his overstatement true.

Example:

Brad- if Hill rushes 20 times, he'll break off an 80 yarder!!!

Me- that only happened once ever

Brad- HE HAD A FEW 60 yarders!!!

[Tiger Teeth]

(08-09-2015, 08:57 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Example:

Brad- if Hill rushes 20 times, he'll break off an 80 yarder!!!

Me- that only happened once ever

Brad- HE HAD A FEW 60 yarders!!!

Talking about Hill busting for 60 and 80 yards is gettin' me pumped.

[BmorePat87]

(08-09-2015, 09:00 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: Talking about Hill busting for 60 and 80 yards is gettin' me pumped.

Do you normally get pumped when people talk about guys busting?