Grade The Draft (PURELY ON TALENT/NEED)

[Luvnit2]

(04-29-2017, 10:46 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: On talent alone, the Bengals got a potential all pro receiver who changes how defenses approach our offense, a potential all pro running back who also changes how defenses approach our offense and a potential new starting LDE to cycle with Michael Johnson and improve our pass rush. All this was done in a draft where the offensive line depth, the position we needed most, was just not there at any of our picks.

Ignoring character concerns, this is an A+ draft.

That is a key point Crazydawg. You get in trouble reaching in a draft (especially 1st 3 rounds) and a reach for an OL that did not grade out well would have been a huge mistake.

[PDub80]

(04-29-2017, 10:46 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: On talent alone, the Bengals got a potential all pro receiver who changes how defenses approach our offense, a potential all pro running back who also changes how defenses approach our offense and a potential new starting LDE to cycle with Michael Johnson and improve our pass rush. All this was done in a draft where the offensive line depth, the position we needed most, was just not there at any of our picks.

Ignoring character concerns, this is an A+ draft.

(04-29-2017, 10:51 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: I would probably give it an A so far.  I thought perhaps there were better players at 1 but I see the reasoning behind the Ross pick.  Wr was a need.  We got 1 of the top 3.  There was a definite drop after that.  And we needed speed, someone who can separate.  We got it.

Mixon, based on tape alone., was simply a steal.  We know he was there.

Willis was deemed worthy of a pick in the 20-40 range.  Another  steal.  

This team needed more speed and athleticism and it got it in spades so far.  For the concern of defense, pass rush in particular, our offense was moribund last year.  We were to predictable and easily defended.  

Now we can address the lines in day 3. Gimme an interior o lineman that can compete and def tackle to play in our rotation and fill in other positions with quality depth.  I think speed and athleticism will continue to be qualities we look for.


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(04-29-2017, 10:54 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: That is a key point Crazydawg. You get in trouble reaching in a draft (especially 1st 3 rounds and a reach for an OL that did not grade out well would have been a huge mistake.

I agree on the O-line concerns. The Bengals can only do so much at once and they have to let the young guys develop.

This draft is pitiful on the O-line side of the ball. I don't see anyone, with the exception of one of the centers - who were not available, nor made sense where the Bengals were picking. Even the best rated OT in this draft, Robinson from AL, was being talked about on NFL radio as being sloppy and probably needing to play inside G for his first few years to get better.

Lets be honest in that regard... The Bengals already have an AL OT who had to move in to G: Andre Smith!

I know I'm in the hyper minority here, but like the Bengals youth along the OL and see a light at the end of that tunnel. Westerman is a guy I think that can step in in the next few years. Ced has the right attitude and is working hard this offseason. Fisher I liked a lot when the Bengals took him. I think Smith will excel at RG as long as he stays healthy (but, frankly, that's where Westerman comes in). Bolling is strong. And I think Bodine has a lot of improvement to do, but made strides last season.

I think the Bengals O-line is what it is and that there wasn't going to be a single rookie in this draft that is going to come in and supplant the guys already on the roster. Who knows, though. Thuney was a rookie 3rd rounder for the Patriots last season and played every snap for them all the way to the Superbowl. Lets see how day 3 pans out!

[*SHRacerX*]

What toolbag gave it a D?

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-29-2017, 10:42 AM)PDub80 Wrote: PREDICTION:

Today, they trade AJ McCarron and a pick to the Jets for Sheldon Richardson, causing Bengals fans heads to explode from not being able to handle the awesome.

No way...if they trade for Richardson, it would be for just a pick, like a 5th rounder.  AJM is worth much more to them than that.  Plus, Richardson is a shitbag, and costs $8 million this year.  

[Benton]

(04-29-2017, 11:04 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: What toolbag gave it a D?

That'd be me.

And even if it wasn't, I would encourage you to tone down the insults.

[PDub80]

(04-29-2017, 11:09 AM)Benton Wrote: That'd be me.

And even if it wasn't, I would encourage you to tone down the insults.

Why, based on talent, did you give them a D grade?

At their picks, who would have been better players for them?

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-29-2017, 11:09 AM)Benton Wrote: That'd be me.

And even if it wasn't, I would encourage you to tone down the insults.

Sorry, I thought it was funny....my bad

[CJD]

(04-29-2017, 11:04 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: What toolbag gave it a D?

Someone who disregarded the "purely on talent/need" part.

[PDub80]

(04-29-2017, 11:04 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: What toolbag gave it a D?

+ Rep. I'm a grown up and don't mind the insults when warranted.

[Okeana]

(04-29-2017, 11:09 AM)Benton Wrote: That'd be me.

And even if it wasn't, I would encourage you to tone down the insults.

You aren't handling yourself like an admin should.  If you make such a dumb assessment of talent people should be able to call you out for it.  Whatever makes you feel happy tho

[magikod]

id give us a A right now

[Benton]

(04-29-2017, 11:12 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Why based on talent, did you give them that grade?

At their picks, who would have been better players for them?

Title says talent/need.

Excluding players left on the board, we got a guy who is ae gamble and one dimensional player who was a minor need; a solid rb who fits the scheme great but wasn't a need at all; and a backup at a significant need.

Mixon is the only pick that's going to improve the team more than a free agent pickup would have. But he wasn't a big need, unless they've decided they just can't coach out hills problems.

Last years draft was pretty good. The year before was bad. This one is worse than that one.

[PDub80]

(04-29-2017, 11:04 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: What toolbag gave it a D?

(04-29-2017, 11:09 AM)Benton Wrote: That'd be me.

And even if it wasn't, I would encourage you to tone down the insults.

(04-29-2017, 11:12 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Sorry, I thought it was funny....my bad

(04-29-2017, 11:14 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Someone who disregarded the "purely on talent/need" part.

(04-29-2017, 11:16 AM)Okeana Wrote: You aren't handling yourself like an admin should.  If you make such a dumb assessment of talent people should be able to call you out for it.  Whatever makes you feel happy tho

Ok ok, lets NOT get too personal or emotional. We're all Bengals fans here and this should be fun. I asked and would like to hear Bentons' actual assessment of why he gave it a D grade on talent or need.

Also, in fairness to Benton, his mood is "Hormonal". So, it's not like he isn't warning everyone. 

[Benton]

(04-29-2017, 11:16 AM)Okeana Wrote: You aren't handling yourself like an admin should.  If you make such a dumb assessment of talent people should be able to call you out for it.  Whatever makes you feel happy tho

I appreciate the concern. But I'd ask anyone not to call a poster a toolbox.

[PDub80]

(04-29-2017, 11:19 AM)Benton Wrote: Title says talent/need.

Excluding players left on the board, we got a guy who is ae gamble and one dimensional player who was a minor need; a solid rb who fits the scheme great but wasn't a need at all; and a backup at a significant need.

Mixon is the only pick that's going to improve the team more than a free agent pickup would have. But he wasn't a big need, unless they've decided they just can't coach out hills problems.

Last years draft was pretty good. The year before was bad. This one is worse than that one.

^ I mean, that's a cold bucket of water dumped on us all partying it up in the streets, but I understand where you're coming from.

Thanks for the hot take!

[PDub80]

(04-29-2017, 11:20 AM)Benton Wrote: I appreciate the concern. But I'd ask anyone not to call a poster a toolbox.

What if he meant, THIS kind of tool box?

[The Real Deal]

(04-29-2017, 11:20 AM)Benton Wrote: I appreciate the concern. But I'd ask anyone not to call a poster a toolbox.

Tool bag. He said tool bag.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-29-2017, 11:19 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Ok ok, lets NOT get too personal or emotional. We're all Bengals fans here and this should be fun. I asked and would like to hear Bentons' actual assessment of why he gave it a D grade on talent or need.

Also, in fairness to Benton, his mood is "Hormonal". So, it's not like he isn't warning everyone. 

I'm laughing at this exchange, but please, guys...stop.  I don't want to end up "pink" (banned) nor do I want any of you to, either...

[Benton]

(04-29-2017, 11:22 AM)The Real Deal Wrote: Tool bag. He said tool bag.

Fair enough. Either way, I would appreciate if posters did t call other posters anything with tool. Even if, like me, they are.

And I get lots of guys are buzzing after the last couple nights. I'm just not a fan.

[HarleyDog]

(04-29-2017, 10:11 AM)PDub80 Wrote: What grade would you give the Bengals draft so far, based purely on talent and/or need/impact? And, feel free to elaborate as to why.

If you can, please leave the Mixon character concerns out of it. For the purpose of this, we'll let 3 years ago be 3 years ago and assume that Joe Mixon will go the path of Carlos Dunlap and not Adam Jones.

I would have to grade it out as an A+  

Why?

JOHN ROSS

While I wasn't wanting Ross (he wasn't my 1st choice at WR, frankly) I 100% get the reasoning behind it. He brings special traits that nobody else in this draft has and things that nobody else on the Bengals has. Not only that, but the other two top receivers in this draft were gone by the time the Bengals selected at #9.

In the worst of ways, the Bengals needed what Ross does best. And they got it without maneuvering. Dave Lapham loved the pick - which always brings me on board. It wasn't a reach. Ross is a highly graded player, more unique than anyone in this entire draft, and at a position of need.

While people bring up his injury concerns, I have to go ahead and parrot what has been pointed out in a lot of articles... He ran that fast AFTER his knee injuries. AFTER. The shoulder injury occurred in game 5 of 2016. He didn't miss any significant time and played the rest of the 2016 season WITH the shoulder injury. WITH it?! Tough kid. Makes plays. And is more than just fast. Perfect pick. A+

JOE MIXON

Based purely on talent I think Joe Mixon is the best RB in the entire draft. Especially for the Bengals. Period.

In fact, I think he's arguably the best all around talent in the draft. Every box is emphatically checked.

3 Down bell-cow? YES
Versatile? YES
Home run threat from anywhere on the field? YES
Make you miss? YES
Power to break tackles and run people over? YES
Short yardage? YES
Blocking? YES
Receiving out of the backfield or split out wide? YES
Size? YES
Speed? YES

^ The Above YES'S are not just ho-hum, but he does these things outstandingly well and against big time competition. He killed Ohio State every time he touched the ball, for example.

The kid even returns kicks.... REALLY WELL.

With the exception of RT, RB was the weakest link in the offense last season. This fills a big time need and with big time talent. Based purely on talent, if the Bengals would have taken him at #9 I would have been thrilled. I think he's better than Fournette.

Oh, and for the cherry on top, the Bengals grabbed another 4th rounder - pick #128 - AND Mixon. A+

JORDAN WILLIS

LOVE this pick! Not the typical Bengals DE in terms of height, but fits in a lot of ways. Similar body type to Carlos Dunlap, but about 2" shorter. Fast, quick, athletic, explosive, high motor, and consistent. No question he's 1st round talent. A lot of mock drafts had this kid going in the back half of the first round (an NFL.com mock had the Steelers taking him) and I don't think I saw a single one where Willis was falling out of the 2nd.

- Produced and got better each season he was at KSU. Versatile player and was one of my wishes for an after round 1 DE. If they took Willis in the 2nd I think that would have been good value. In the 3rd? Awesome value.

People not knowing who this guy is will love what they find when researching. The Bengals have said they view him strictly as a DE in their scheme, but NFL.com's Draft Tracker has him with the LBs. He has the exact same grade, but with better measurables, than the Steelers 1st rounder, TJ Watt.

Among DEs, he would have be the 7th highest rated DE, but misses being the #4 prospect at that spot by about .5 points. IMO, if they can get about 20-30 more lbs on this kid he will start tearing it up at the NFL level. Willis is about 2" shorter and 20lbs lighter than Dunlap coming out of college.

With his size and speed, I can see Willis covering TE's off the line similar to what Adalius Thomas did for the Ravens. Willis is THAT athletic and fast. Relentless pursuer.

Another A+ pick.

At this point, I don't know how else to grade the Bengals draft from an impact or talent standpoint than an A+. The way the draft fell, there's not one player they could have taken in their spot that would have been better for them in terms of talent or need. Not 1. Add in grabbing an extra 4th rounder and wow... what a draft so far! Based just on talent, this already DESTROYS what happened in the 2016, 2015, and 2014 drafts.

I give your analysis an A+++. Very awesome read, well written and extremely detailed.

As for the draft, I'm not so sure? I feel if the OL improves this year and can handle their own, we just got extremely awesome. However, if they don't (I understand the draft isn't over) based on what we have, we will be forced to go back to a Bratkowski type offense (remember how horrible that was) where we are doing nothing but quick screens and dumping passes because the QB doesn't have any time to throw. Not to mention we will have a RB with defense in his face upon receiving the handoff.

Very tough to give this draft a grade, so I am going to trust the coaches faith in the improvement of the OL and the addition of A. Smith (who we let go because well, he sucked) and give this draft a grade of A-. If we add some startable talent on the OL who will have a immediate impact, I will improve my grade.