Should Bengals be switching rookie positions?

[Derrick]

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/5/7/15560208/bengals-switching-rookie-positions

Marvy seems to like to do this possibly to demonstrate his coaching prowess. However, with zero SB wins and no PO wins in >26 years, maybe he should reconsider his approach to coaching rookies.

[McC]

(05-07-2017, 09:25 PM)Derrick Wrote: http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/5/7/15560208/bengals-switching-rookie-positions

Marvy seems to like to do this possibly to demonstrate his coaching prowess. However, with zero SB wins and no PO wins in >26 years, maybe he should reconsider his approach to coaching rookies.

Versatility is a good thing.  It gives you more ways to get guys on the field.

In the beginning, at least, Wilson will be a STer.  If he wows at S, who knows.  And I believe Lawson will be just fine wherever they play him.

They will not be the first and second players to ever switch positions as rookies.  It is extremely common.

[fredtoast]

(05-07-2017, 09:25 PM)Derrick Wrote: http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/5/7/15560208/bengals-switching-rookie-positions

Marvy seems to like to do this possibly to demonstrate his coaching prowess. However, with zero SB wins and no PO wins in >26 years, maybe he should reconsider his approach to coaching rookies.

Marvin has a Super Bowl ring.

Also, are you saying that coaches who win playoffs and Super Bowls never change players positions?  Maybe you just need to pay more attention to the rest of the league.  Because just looking at the Bengals and claiming that every single move they make is wrong is silly.

[jj22]

How about respond with facts on which DE Marvin has switched to OLB that has actually worked? You can't. An that's the OP's point. Lawson isn't athletic enough (tight hips) to play OLB. So this is shaping up to be a huge (another) failure. Maybe when they ruin him like they did Fisher and M.Johnson first two years, you'll understand the OP's point. Switching positions has never worked out well for Bengals players under Marvin outside Whit bouncing from OG to OT.

[Au165]

Lawson was a 3-4 OLB at Auburn so a move to a 4-3 SAM isn't unheard of. Basically he is in on base packages and is either playing the run or rushing the passer, but very little coverage will be required of him. When we move him down to DE on passing downs it is nothing new for him. I could see us throwing in some 3-3-5 packages for Lawson and let him line up on the line standing up rather than hand in the dirt. As for Wilson, he is just a football player I think we are trying to find a place where he is a serviceable back up so we can use his ST skills.

[jj22]

Very little coverage will be required of him until opposing offenses see him on the field and audible out to a TE pass play. We've read this script before. Marvins failures to move a 3-4 OLB/DE to 4-3 OLB is as bad as his playoff record.

[jj22]

(05-08-2017, 10:37 AM)Au165 Wrote: Lawson wasn't a DE though...

Call it what you want. Lawson was on the line in all the games I watched him in. I didn't see him in coverage running with TE's and making plays against runs in space. He was always on the line whatever you want to call his position. Either way we both know the move from DE to OLB has never worked. This is a passing league. There's no room for him in base defense. He's best as a pass rush specialist.

[Au165]

(05-08-2017, 10:40 AM)jj22 Wrote: Call it what you want. Lawson was on the line in all the games I watched him in. I didn't see him in coverage running with TE's and making plays against runs in space. He was always on the line whatever you want to call his position. Either way we both know the move to OLB has never worked.

I went ahead and pulled that because they listed him as a DE even though he never really put his hand down in the dirt when he was outside. Sam's don't really run with TE's if we are in base package and he is asked to cover it is going to be a hook zone or flat, not man. What I am saying is, it isn't a "move" really just an adjustment to scheme.

[*ochocincos*]

I don't care where Lawson plays as long as Lawson and Willis can get 7+ sacks combined this year.
I don't think it's unrealistic to expect a third and fourth round pick to each pick up about 3.5 sacks each as rookies.
They were both projected early second round picks for a reason, so hopefully they are better than their actual draft positions indicate.

[McC]

Maybe we just wait and see how it plays out instead of jumping to conclusions ahead of time.

[fredtoast]

(05-08-2017, 10:33 AM)jj22 Wrote: How about respond with facts on which DE Marvin has switched to OLB that has actually worked? You can't. An that's the OP's point.

Then the OP does not have a point.  Peter Boulware.

But here is my point

Bengals don't do what every other winning team does.......You whine because of it.

Bengals do exactly what every other winning team does .....You whine about it.

The Bengals never had any success drafting a "receiver type" TE before Eifert, but I don't remember that being considered grounds to never try and do it again.

There is no logic behind the argument "It is wrong just because the Bengals do it."

[fredtoast]

(05-08-2017, 10:38 AM)jj22 Wrote: Marvins failures to move a 3-4 OLB/DE to 4-3 OLB is as bad as his playoff record.

Marvin has won a Super Bowl and one of the key players oin his defense was a LB who played DE in college.

[grampahol]

Pretty sure that in the past Marvin has said he wants a glass of water..pretty sure also certain people will say that until he wins super bowl and playoffs as hc he doesn't deserve a glass of water and if on the off chance he does win it all the same people will say it took X years to win so he should have to wait those same X years till the next glass of water..

I don't like everything Marvin does or says, but this is nitpicking.. It's football and not some diabolical plan to take over the world..

[jj22]

(05-08-2017, 10:48 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Marvin has won a Super Bowl and one of the key players oin his defense was a LB who played DE in college.

You having to go back 17 years when he was a position coach with another team just proves our point. Do I need to list his many DE switch to 4-3 OLB failures while a Bengals head coach? Right.

[fredtoast]

(05-08-2017, 11:43 AM)jj22 Wrote: Do I need to list his many DE switch to 4-3 OLB failures while a Bengals head coach?

Yes.

[*psychdoctor*]

I think Sam linebacker is the right position for Lawson.
It would allow the defense to keep Lawson and Willis on the field at the same time.

The only problem I have is the new linebacker Jordan Evans is probably their best covering linebacker and he will not see the field.

I don't think Lawson will turn out like: Moch, Pollock (who got hurt), and others who converted to upright position. I say this because Lawson is a freak athlete with speed. The possible nightmare scenario I could see is that Lawson gets hurt.

[jj22]

(05-08-2017, 12:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes.

Well I'm not. But look no further then the most recent failure and how we couldn't use James Harrison for the life of us, just for him to turn back into an 8+ sack player when he went back to the Steelers. If you think Marvin knows how to use a 3-4 OLB or undersized DE in a 4-3 SAM role still then that's on you. He doesn't, and he's proven it over and over again in the last two decades.

Leave Lawson on the line and let him focus on rushing the passer. Stop the insanity.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-08-2017, 10:33 AM)jj22 Wrote: How about respond with facts on which DE Marvin has switched to OLB that has actually worked? You can't. An that's the OP's point. Lawson isn't athletic enough (tight hips) to play OLB. So this is shaping up to be a huge (another) failure. Maybe when they ruin him like they did Fisher and M.Johnson first two years, you'll understand the OP's point. Switching positions has never worked out well for Bengals players under Marvin outside Whit bouncing from OG to OT.

I don't see Lawson breaking the DE rotation any time soon.

I also don't see the Bengals playing 2 255 lb guys at DE (Willis and Lawson).

His only chance to play is OLB.

[jj22]

Then I'm afraid it's a wasted pick. Lawson is too tight hipped to move in space, or provide the speed we needed at OLB at 255-260lb's. He's a straight line straight ahead pass rusher.

[fredtoast]

(05-08-2017, 01:33 PM)jj22 Wrote: Well I'm not.

And we all know why. 

(05-08-2017, 01:33 PM)jj22 Wrote: If you think Marvin knows how to use a 3-4 OLB or undersized DE in a 4-3 SAM role still then that's on you. He doesn't, and he's proven it over and over again in the last two decades.

Uh, you must have missed the post where I showed that Marvin won a Super Bowl with a key player on his defense being a college DE that he played at 4-3 OLB.