Bengals brilliant in taking Kicker Elliot over Gonzalez

[Steve]

(05-13-2017, 06:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Just because some draft magazine said as much doesn't mean that is what NFL teams felt regarding the kickers.

There were some of those publications that had Deshone Kiser as the #1 ranked QB and I think 4 went before him?

it wasn't SOME draft mags......
it was ALL of them.... that had Gonzales as the #1 ranked kicker....

[Steve]

(05-11-2017, 12:22 PM)sandwedge Wrote: So you wanted to take a kicker who has the advantage of kicking at higher altitude, dryer air to come kick at sea level in cold weather. That makes no sense.... Watch the video again of Elliot kicking

I watched the video of Elliot kicking.....
looked like an 80 degree day w/ a 30 MPH wind at his back....
oh boy he can make short kicks ....
but not good at longer ones....DO'H 

meanwhile Gonzalez w/ the Browns will be making 50+ yrd kicks ....

I bet he can't even win the job from Bullock....& we spent a 5th rd pick on this little guy...

[fredtoast]

(05-13-2017, 09:53 AM)Steve Wrote: it wasn't SOME draft mags......
it was ALL of them.... that had Gonzales as the #1 ranked kicker....

Teams don't pick players based on magazines.  And every single year there are players are drafted in different order than all the magazines predict.

[fredtoast]

(05-13-2017, 09:59 AM)Steve Wrote: I watched the video of Elliot kicking.....
looked like an 80 degree day w/ a 30 MPH wind at his back....
oh boy he can make short kicks ....
but not good at longer ones....DO'H 

meanwhile Gonzalez w/ the Browns will be making 50+ yrd kicks ....

I bet he can't even win the job from Bullock....& we spent a 5th rd pick on this little guy...

You basing this on how well the top rated kicker from last years draft did?

[grampahol]

Let's all rally around the notion of "common sense and knowledge" ? 
Personally I kind of like the uncommon sense and knowledge. The common sense/knowledge thing is the very essence of mediocrety.
Yeah I know.. We settle for mediocrety all the time..its common knowledge.. 

[Shake n Blake]

I was fine with taking Elliott in the 5th as long as the Bengals felt he was worth it.

That said, I do find it funny that people are so quick to dismiss "experts" who think we reached, but quickly point out when we "steal" a player (according to those same experts).

[Steve]

(05-13-2017, 10:03 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You basing this on how well the top rated kicker from last years draft did?

no....

[Steve]

(05-13-2017, 12:11 PM)grampahol Wrote: Let's all rally around the notion of "common sense and knowledge" ? 
Personally I kind of like the uncommon sense and knowledge. The common sense/knowledge thing is the very essence of mediocrety.
Yeah I know.. We settle for mediocrety all the time..its common knowledge.. 

so I guess if we had the #1 pick in the last draft...& instead of picking the #1 rated guy, DE Garrett we instead pick the 24th ranked player DE Taco Charlton.....you'd be ok w/ that...???   & just say, well who knows ....rankings mean nothing....

YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME..!!!

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-13-2017, 09:47 AM)Steve Wrote: i'm just not a big fan of SMALL kickers....
I want a bigger guy who can kick longer field goals.....

& imo rankings do matter....Gonzalez was ranked as the #1 kicker for a reason...but many will ignor that....
lets watch how Gonzales does w/ the Browns....& how Bullock kicks for us....b/c I bet Elliot doesn't even make the team....

Again, who had Gonzalez ranked higher?  

Then, ask yourself, how much time Mel Kiper or some draft magazine actually scouted kickers.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-13-2017, 09:53 AM)Steve Wrote: it wasn't SOME draft mags......
it was ALL of them.... that had Gonzales as the #1 ranked kicker....

And all of them probably spent a combined 15 minutes on the kickers.  Did you watch the video of his Pro Day?  That might change your mind a bit.  

[McC]

(05-14-2017, 12:48 AM)Steve Wrote: so I guess if we had the #1 pick in the last draft...& instead of picking the #1 rated guy, DE Garrett we instead pick the 24th ranked player DE Taco Charlton.....you'd be ok w/ that...???   & just say, well who knows ....rankings mean nothing....

YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME..!!!

Stupid and failed analogy.  We get it.  You did that brilliant thing where you decide ahead of time.  You know more than one of the best ST coaches in the game.  There have been great small kickers and great bigger kickers.  That argument holds no weight at all.

Only time will tell who's right.  If you're right, of course you will devote pages to telling us all you told us so.  If you're wrong, will you devote even one sentence to admitting it?  The answer to that, like the answer to who is the better kicker, remains to be seen.

Was Joe Montana the highest rated QB in his draft?  Was Tom Brady?  

[Sled21]

Simmons had his choice of the two, and picked the one he wanted. Good enough for me...

[sandwedge]

(05-13-2017, 09:59 AM)Steve Wrote: I watched the video of Elliot kicking.....
looked like an 80 degree day w/ a 30 MPH wind at his back....
oh boy he can make short kicks ....
but not good at longer ones....DO'H 

meanwhile Gonzalez w/ the Browns will be making 50+ yrd kicks ....

I bet he can't even win the job from Bullock....& we spent a 5th rd pick on this little guy...

80 degree weather in February and March in Memphis?? I'm booking my next winter vacation there!!   
You obviously know little about kicking mechanics, a hint, it has nothing to do with how tall a kicker is..
Did you happen to see Gonzalez's workout at sea level? I used to teach golf in Arizona and I can tell you, the ball goes about 25 yds further with every club than in say in Ohio. 
My point is, you're dismissing the altitude difference. 

[*rfaulk34*]

Here's my question, since i don't recall seeing it; do kickers and punters kick at the combine? If not, why?

You get guys on a level playing field, same as position players, and you can judge them based on that equality. 

[*rfaulk34*]

Ok. So, i thought about it for about 30 more seconds and realized....kickers and punters aren't very high on the list of potential draftees.

Still wouldn't hurt to have them work out at the combine so that all teams can see them all together and judge their talent. 

[Sled21]

(05-15-2017, 12:31 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Here's my question, since i don't recall seeing it; do kickers and punters kick at the combine? If not, why?

You get guys on a level playing field, same as position players, and you can judge them based on that equality. 

According to this article, Elliott out kicked Gonzales at the combine.....

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/5/5/15540028/anonymous-scouts-say-jake-elliott-is-the-best-kicker-of-the-2017-draft-class

Quote:McGinn had anonymous scouts weigh in on each of the top kickers, and here’s a look at what they had to say Elliott.

1. “Everybody’s got (Zane) Gonzalez No. 1 but I see Elliott as just a little bit better,” said one coach. “I just like his demeanor and his swing. I think it’s more repeatable than the other guy’s, but Gonzalez is a little bigger.

2. Everybody says Elliott doesn’t have as strong a leg but at the combine he beat (Gonzalez). His kickoffs are fine. He was the best kickoff guy at the combine.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2017, 12:27 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I was fine with taking Elliott in the 5th as long as the Bengals felt he was worth it.

That said, I do find it funny that people are so quick to dismiss "experts" who think we reached, but quickly point out when we "steal" a player (according to those same experts).

Great point!

With all the draft publications out there...there are probably 70 different guys that get 1st Round grades.

Gonzales wasn't just considered the best kicker by draft experts...he won kicking awards in college too. This is a time will tell situation.

With him being in Memphis, the Bengals likely scouted him more than they would an ASU kicker.

And who are we kidding...if we took Gonzales...a lot of these same people touting Elliott would be VERY HAPPY with Gonzales.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-15-2017, 12:17 PM)sandwedge Wrote: 80 degree weather in February and March in Memphis?? I'm booking my next winter vacation there!!   
You obviously know little about kicking mechanics, a hint, it has nothing to do with how tall a kicker is..
Did you happen to see Gonzalez's workout at sea level? I used to teach golf in Arizona and I can tell you, the ball goes about 25 yds further with every club than in say in Ohio. 
My point is, you're dismissing the altitude difference. 

Fair point that kicking in Memphis may be closer to kicking in Cincy.

[shanebo]

This reminds me of some of our past drafts in which we selected a lesser-regarded player -- or a player with question marks -- over the "consensus" picks at their positions:
2004 - Could've had Steven Jackson, but traded back and picked Chris Perry
2008 - Jerome Simpson over DeSean Jackson and Limas Sweed
2009 - Andre Smith over Eugene Monroe
2012 - Could've had David DeCastro, but traded back to pick Zeitler

Of course, other times we picked the "sure thing" over the question marks:
2000 - Peter Warrick over Plaxico Burress
2003 - Carson Palmer over Byron Leftwich and Kyle Boller
2008 - Keith Rivers over Jerod Mayo
2010 - Jermaine Gresham over Dez Bryant

Sometimes our picks work out (Dre, CP3), sometimes it's a wash (Zeitler), other times it's a disaster (Simpson, Rivers). Only time will tell. I just hope the decision to pick Elliot was based on a fair evaluation of his talent, rather than an expectation of their ability to retain/resign a slightly lesser but functional player at a lower price (which was always my suspicion with the Perry and Zeitler picks ... and, to a lesser extent, Andre Smith -- "We're signing you to play RT, so you have to take less $")

[grampahol]

I dunno.. eeniemeeniemineymoe works, which by the way is a rigged game if you can count to 21.. A little more complex if you do the 'My mother told me to pick the very next one and you are not it' option. Then it's a game of elimination, but you can still rig it. LOL