IMPORTANT BENGALS NAMES COME END OF SUMMER

[J24]

(05-17-2017, 06:15 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is extremely pessimistic view of things.

1.) LT is the most important position on the offensive line if you have a right-handed QB.  What you forget, or choose to ignore, is that Whit struggled mightily when he first got his shot at LT.  Like Ced, he was moved around, and the Bengals regret that decision with Ced.  They also regret that they needed him to play when he wasn't healthy.  I have no was of knowing if Whit was healthy when he started, but I believe he was.  One Bengal's exec told me that Ced would have been the first lineman off the board in this year's draft class if he were being evaluated against them.  They feel that strongly about him.  A healthy start, a full camp at LT (something he hasn't had yet on either account) and I believe he will rise to meet the expectations.  If not, at least they have a backup plan of Fisher to LT and Andre to RT.  Lastly, there is an expression about Father Time being undefeated, and as much as I love Whit, he will be 36 this upcoming season. 

2.) Boling is not an All-Pro that will elevate those around him?  Ok, but do you realize how much a lineman relies on his shoulder strength?  He played through a significant shoulder injury for pretty much the entire season.  There is no way you can look at him at full strength and not think he should be significantly improved.  

3.) Bodine is a solid run blocker and a below average pass-blocker.  I have heard it said that the center position is 99% based on the player's intelligence.  That seems like a stretch to me, but we always give QBs the excuse of "his third OC in six years".  Well, I think this is Bodine's second in three years.  He is heading in to your four with the same OC as last year.  Again, like Boling, I don't see any way how this becomes a regression, especially in his contract year.  He did struggle mightily in his first year, but the Bengals stayed with him and he has improved every season.  And let's be honest:  Jeremy Hill sucked ass against every team not named Cleveland.  Rex Burkhead proved at least some of the issues with the running game were on the shoulders of the RB. 

4.) Zeitler was an average run blocker and an above average pass blocker.  He wasn't worth $12 million per year, but good for him.  His sudden desire to not be "the fat lineman" seemed to deter his development as a run blocker.  Again, some of this is on Hill, but I see younger, stronger guys in Redmond and Westerman that may be able to improve the run blocking of the team.  I know Andre Smith could, and has the potential to be a mauler at RG.


5.) Fisher was toyed with all over the line and formations before finally finding a home at RT.  I like his size, length, and strength.  Plus, more than all that, I like his attitude.  Dude is one tough mother.  He may not be an All-Pro, but I see no way he doesn't offer a significant upgrade over Ced playing injured at RT.  Especially in the running game.

That is four out of five positions on the offensive line that I have provided sound rationale as to why they could be improved in the running game.  If the running game improves, pass blocking becomes easier.  If all this makes me a "homer", so be it.   I just believe that they have made the right moves and we will see a very different offense this season.  A better one.  

I am confused do you think Paul Alexander is Harry Potter and is going to use a magic spell on this offensive line? OG was the worst starter last year in the NFL and instead of replacing him they promoted him to LT. RT is question mark( although I am confident fisher will be good) , Zeitler was a very good player and replacing him with an undrafted free agent and fifth round pick is unsettling, Boiling is good, and our center sucks. That leaves us with two unknowns and two crappy players. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-17-2017, 03:08 PM)J24 Wrote: I am confused do you think Paul Alexander is Harry Potter and is going to use a magic spell on this offensive line? OG was the worst starter last year in the NFL and instead of replacing him they promoted him to LT. RT is question mark( although I am confident fisher will be good) , Zeitler was a very good player and replacing him with an undrafted free agent and fifth round pick is unsettling, Boiling is good, and our center sucks. That leaves us with two unknowns and two crappy players. 

As you probably know i have no faith in PA but...

Og getting an entire Offseason to work and get stronger should help. LT is Og's natural position where he can use his feet
and athleticism. Fisher finally staying at one position should really help him. Boling is good, even better than Zeitler when
healthy IMHO.

Last i heard Andre Smith was our RG, not an UDFA or Westerman (yet). Zeitler was terrible in run blocking last year, i don't
know why some just ignore this. If Andre can stay healthy he should be an upgrade in the run game for sure and if he can't
stay healthy Westerman was a great pass blocker in college and could be another Zeitler for all we know.

Bodine is the one guy i doubt improves much as he never had much a high ceiling anyways. Maybe if Dielman or TJ Johnson
push him some he might get better.

[Bengal Dude]

(05-17-2017, 05:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: From what I understand, they said that UCLA doesn't have the greatest strength training program (which kind of surprised me), but that Redmond has really taken to the Bengals program and they feel like he will compete with Westerman for the job at RG.  I thought Andre might make a very good RG, and maybe he still will, but they also like the idea of him as a backup to Fisher and since he is only on a one year deal it makes sense to develop your RG of the future.  

Jim O. talked about Redmond's transition from UCLA to the pros on the BBP. Redmond said that the diet program and training regime that the Bengals have is a thousand times better than what's at UCLA, mainly that they have nothing. He said he would just wake up on game day and go maul people in the game. That's it. Now he actually has a routine to follow and help him improve on the field.


I think this explains why we see more rookies struggle to acclimate to the NFL that we use to see.

[bonesaw]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oBaVRn7IEU

[CanadianBengal]

(05-17-2017, 03:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: As you probably know i have no faith in PA but...

Og getting an entire Offseason to work and get stronger should help. LT is Og's natural position where he can use his feet
and athleticism. Fisher finally staying at one position should really help him. Boling is good, even better than Zeitler when
healthy IMHO.

Last i heard Andre Smith was our RG, not an UDFA or Westerman (yet). Zeitler was terrible in run blocking last year, i don't
know why some just ignore this. If Andre can stay healthy he should be an upgrade in the run game for sure and if he can't
stay healthy Westerman was a great pass blocker in college and could be another Zeitler for all we know.

Bodine is the one guy i doubt improves much as he never had much a high ceiling anyways. Maybe if Dielman or TJ Johnson
push him some he might get better.

I don't remember reading anybody wanting Andre back last year.  He struggled in his last year here and everyone was glad to see him go. He then goes to Minny, struggles and is injured. Now people are happy he's back and think he's an upgrade over Zeit?


Zeit isn't worth 12 mil and Whit got more than I thought he would but at this point there is no evidence this line is better. Time will tell if it is good enough but anyone arguing that this line is better than the one that struggled last year is basing that on hopeful thinking and not evidence. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-17-2017, 11:24 PM)CanadianBengal Wrote: I don't remember reading anybody wanting Andre back last year.  He struggled in his last year here and everyone was glad to see him go. He then goes to Minny, struggles and is injured. Now people are happy he's back and think he's an upgrade over Zeit?


Zeit isn't worth 12 mil and Whit got more than I thought he would but at this point there is no evidence this line is better. Time will tell if it is good enough but anyone arguing that this line is better than the one that struggled last year is basing that on hopeful thinking and not evidence. 

I agree, but at the same time writing this line off as worse than last year has no merit yet either.

I am just speaking about the positives, you go ahead and speak of the negatives. You are right, time will tell.

But lots always thought Andre Smith would make a better Guard than Tackle, this is nothing new.

Og and Fish WILL improve. This is a given, they cannot get worse lol

Boling is 100% unlike last year.

These things need to be taken into consideration.

[BFritz21]

(05-16-2017, 06:23 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: A great deal of stress was present in previous seasons where there were changes to the offensive line and the Bengals responded with some of their best rushing attacks in their recent history.

Consider it position by position:  Where are they not as good as last year?  That's easy...LT.  Whit, at 137 years old, would probably be better than Ced.  However, the rest of the line is not the same story:

LG:  Boling played with an injured shoulder for almost all of last season before shutting it down in week 17.  He will be 100% healthy and much more effective than when he was playing through the injury.

C:  Boding was not a Pro Bowl caliber player, but the needle continued to point up as he had his best season.  There is no reason not to expect him to be even better this year in his contract season.

RG:  Although everyone assumes this will be Andre Smith, I wouldn't be surprised to see Alex Redmond win the job.  The club feels very good about him.  Zeitler was not the Hall of Famer some would lead you to believe.  He certainly wasn't worth the ridiculous $12 million per year that Cleveland paid him.  This position could actually be better in the rushing attack.

RT:  Fisher bounced around before landing at RT and settling in nicely.  I like his attitude as well.  Tough guy, wants to win.  I think he will become a very valued piece of this line as time goes on...He certainly was better than an injured Ced was in the first part of the season.  He will be even better next year, now that he can prepare for the RT spot.

So, LT is a concern.  At some point, we have to sink or swim at LT with Ced.  Maybe he, like many others before him, surprises and has a solid season.  If he doesn't, we will see a lot of TE help on his side, or eventually Fisher moves to LT and Smith fills in at RT.

Either way, I don't see it as the five position disaster some would have us believe.  It is also naive to not understand that the mere presence of Ross opposite AJ changes the way defenses will stack the box against the Bengals.

I've been worried about the season because of the offensive line, but this does help me be a bit less worried.

I think, as you mentioned with some of the players being full-time at one position, consistency is big for the line and they can be successful if they block as a unit.

I think having Mixon will also help our line as long as he doesn't get all tip-toey behind the line like Hill was last season (and even some in 2015).  Mixon has been known to dance a little before he sees an opening and then goes hard, so hopefully he can be coached to just hit the line hard all the time and find his holes as he's going downhill.

If Mixon can hit the holes hard and gain chunks of yards, and even break a few big runs, it will do lots of good in keeping the pass rush at ease, which could be important with this line, regardless of how promising your evaluation looks.

(05-16-2017, 12:52 PM)BengalD Wrote: Given expected injuries and all the other camp and pre-season drama, I kind of believe 1 or possibly 2 O-line starters are not even on this team yet.  They will pick up somebody else's leftovers that didn't make their team.  Saw the phrase "coach them up" several times.  It's either the players or the coaches or maybe some of each but seems like they never hit the exact formula.  I find it just amazing that beliychick picks up the street free agents (at various positions) halfway through the season and they start and go to superbowls - I'm thinking it's the coaching!

That's what I'm hoping for because sometimes very good players are cut for younger models, even if they're not as good as the older players, or strictly for financial reasons.

Here's to hoping a quality starter falls into our lap 

(05-16-2017, 11:56 PM)J24 Wrote: Kevin is a 100% right not sure why people fine this thread so unreasonable. There is some truth that the offensive weapons will take pressure  off the O line. With that being said when push comes to shove the o line will have to hold up and block a lot better if this team wants to be contenders. There is only so much the vertical threats can cover up.

I agree but I think the Mixon will force other teams to have to load the box, which then Ross and AJ can get open quickly and Andy won't need a whole lot of time (I only picked those two because, if both safeties aren't near the line, one or both can go deep and Andy can just throw a deep ball.

(05-17-2017, 04:23 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: He's right that we need a solid O line, but as soon as I saw that "B" word, I stopped reading.  He lost all credibility with me.  If he wants to post that crap, he needs to get out of Jungle Noise.  Jungle Noise is for Bengal fans.

I agree that the name is disgraceful and never should be used in reference to the current Bengals, but it's common here in Cinci, especially when referring to the 90s, which were shameful (for the most part). 

(05-18-2017, 12:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I agree, but at the same time writing this line off as worse than last year has no merit yet either.

I am just speaking about the positives, you go ahead and speak of the negatives. You are right, time will tell.

But lots always thought Andre Smith would make a better Guard than Tackle, this is nothing new.

Og and Fish WILL improve. This is a given, they cannot get worse lol

Boling is 100% unlike last year.

These things need to be taken into consideration.

Like I said, the line was so bad last year that it had me freaking, but pausing and looking at it objectively makes it much-less worrisome.

Also as mentioned above, I think Mixon's running can make the line's job MUCH easier.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-17-2017, 02:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great post SHRacer. I am of the same mindset until i see different. Doesn't do any good to complain about the O-line
at this point in the Offseason. I must add that J24 saying Boling is no All-Pro gives me pause. When he was healthy i
thought he was better than the guy the Clowns just paid the most ever money to for a Guard.

I definately think Boling could be an All-Pro cause he can be good at BOTH run and pass blocking unlike Zeitler.

Same could be said of Andre Smith who has always been a good run blocking OT. Should be much easier for him to be
a good pass blocker at RG after always blocking on the outside against much better pass rushers.

Good point on Bodine and i hope you are right there. Thought he would of gotten much better but the change in OC's
could of really hampered him, we will see.

Ced is putting in the work and Redmond is a darkhorse in this conversation along with Lechler and Perkins.

Thanks, Nate. 

I think they have solid options and when I look at Fisher being healthy this offseason as well next to the massive Andre Smith (or, as previously stated, the larger, stronger Redmond) I think that we will be more successful in what was a huge issue for this team last year:  Third and one.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-17-2017, 03:08 PM)J24 Wrote: I am confused do you think Paul Alexander is Harry Potter and is going to use a magic spell on this offensive line? OG was the worst starter last year in the NFL and instead of replacing him they promoted him to LT. RT is question mark( although I am confident fisher will be good) , Zeitler was a very good player and replacing him with an undrafted free agent and fifth round pick is unsettling, Boiling is good, and our center sucks. That leaves us with two unknowns and two crappy players. 

Calling two guys that have been with the team for an entire season learning the system and getting bigger/stronger crappy is more assumptive than having faith that they will be solid.  You assume they are going to suck because they are new, when the Bengals (who see them every day) felt strongly enough about them to let Zeitler walk.  Furthermore, if you think they should have paid Zeitler the $12 million per year, I would like to see what other players you think are expendable because you won't be able to sign them all....guys like Burfict and Eifert that are up next year.  Would you rather have the incredibly average Zeitler over them?

Our center doesn't suck.  He actually graded out as an above average run blocker, but below average pass blocker.  Remember, the Bengals lost a lot of weapons last season and teams didn't have to respect their deep passing game.  The line of scrimmage almost always had 8 in the box.  Bodine has improved each year he has been here.  I am not saying I love the guy, but your hate for him is as dated as morons that say the Bengals are cheap.

Regarding Ced O:  The club has admitted that they did him a massive disservice by having him play RT and play while he was injured.  This will be his first healthy offseaon, OTAs, and training camp since he was drafted.  Remember, Andrew Whitworth didn't set the world on fire when he first started, either.

Again, in summation, four of the five spots have legitimate potential to be better than last year....especially in the running game.  Ced will be a huge factor, but I have faith in him as the Bengals do, and Whit was going to turn 36 during the season.  Not very realistic to extend a guy of his age.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-17-2017, 11:24 PM)CanadianBengal Wrote: I don't remember reading anybody wanting Andre back last year.  He struggled in his last year here and everyone was glad to see him go. He then goes to Minny, struggles and is injured. Now people are happy he's back and think he's an upgrade over Zeit?


Zeit isn't worth 12 mil and Whit got more than I thought he would but at this point there is no evidence this line is better. Time will tell if it is good enough but anyone arguing that this line is better than the one that struggled last year is basing that on hopeful thinking and not evidence. 

Andre stuggled against quicker pass-rushing DEs when he was playing tackle.  A very different assignment than playing Guard.  Much like Cam Robinson in this year's draft (ironically, also from Bama), Andre is probably better suited to use his massive body inside.  Will he be an upgrade over Zeitler?  Who knows?  But I sure know this:  Whomever wins the job at RG next year will likely be an upgrade at the point of attack in running game.  The RG position needs to be a mauler, and Zeitler simply wasn't.  

I thought he would become one, but he decided a couple years ago that he didn't want to be the "fat lineman" and thought he could play better as a more trim, athletic player.  I still wonder if he was trying to set himself up to be a RT, but whatever the reason it did not work.  People heard "the top guard in free agency" and attributed that to mean "the top guard in the NFL", which he most certainly was not.  

And as far as any evidence about last year vs this year goes, you have to understand that Boling was playing through a significant shoulder injury last year before shutting it down week 17.  Bodine and Fisher have improved each year that they have been here, so the evidence shows the needle is pointing up in three of the four spots.  The fact that the Bengals didn't draft a Guard (until very late) shows me just how strongly they feel about Redmond and Westerman.  They have even said as much.  The fact that our former first round pick might be a back up here this year also gives me a lot of evidence of their faith in those guys.

It isn't just hope.  The line will be better at run blocking and could be better at pass blocking.  The additions of Ross and Mixon, plus a healthy TE squad, will also pay huge dividends this year. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-19-2017, 05:44 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Thanks, Nate. 

I think they have solid options and when I look at Fisher being healthy this offseason as well next to the massive Andre Smith (or, as previously stated, the larger, stronger Redmond) I think that we will be more successful in what was a huge issue for this team last year:  Third and one.  

You're welcome dude, Fisher looks like Drago in his camp pics. Seriously he is in the best shape i have ever seen a O-lineman.

Thought Hunt came back from Indy and switched to OL, glad i was mistaken and it was Fisher.

Haven't heard much of Westerman from the coaches but quite a bit on Redmond. This could be telling.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-18-2017, 12:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I agree, but at the same time writing this line off as worse than last year has no merit yet either.

I am just speaking about the positives, you go ahead and speak of the negatives. You are right, time will tell.

But lots always thought Andre Smith would make a better Guard than Tackle, this is nothing new.

Og and Fish WILL improve. This is a given, they cannot get worse lol

Boling is 100% unlike last year.

These things need to be taken into consideration.

Boling is currently recovering from shoulder surgery. He's on track to return for TC, but he could miss some and/or could be brought back slowly to full workload.

[J24]

(05-19-2017, 05:53 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Calling two guys that have been with the team for an entire season learning the system and getting bigger/stronger crappy is more assumptive than having faith that they will be solid.  You assume they are going to suck because they are new, when the Bengals (who see them every day) felt strongly enough about them to let Zeitler walk.  Furthermore, if you think they should have paid Zeitler the $12 million per year, I would like to see what other players you think are expendable because you won't be able to sign them all....guys like Burfict and Eifert that are up next year.  Would you rather have the incredibly average Zeitler over them?

Our center doesn't suck.  He actually graded out as an above average run blocker, but below average pass blocker.  Remember, the Bengals lost a lot of weapons last season and teams didn't have to respect their deep passing game.  The line of scrimmage almost always had 8 in the box.  Bodine has improved each year he has been here.  I am not saying I love the guy, but your hate for him is as dated as morons that say the Bengals are cheap.

Regarding Ced O:  The club has admitted that they did him a massive disservice by having him play RT and play while he was injured.  This will be his first healthy offseaon, OTAs, and training camp since he was drafted.  Remember, Andrew Whitworth didn't set the world on fire when he first started, either.

Again, in summation, four of the five spots have legitimate potential to be better than last year....especially in the running game.  Ced will be a huge factor, but I have faith in him as the Bengals do, and Whit was going to turn 36 during the season.  Not very realistic to extend a guy of his age.  

First off I said we had unkowns not bad players at RG and RT, secondly Bodine is a decent run blocker and a terrible pass protector, and thirddly all of the Ced excuses the team is saying is complete crap because no player should be that bad. He showed zero signs of improvement; how is that possible. He also struggled in college with a lot of sacks. So he probably just isnt that good. Also you say it wasn't smart to extend Whitworth but why didn't the Bengals franchise him for this season?  Losing a HOF Lt is pure stupidity when we had the money and the use of a franchise tag to keep him.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-19-2017, 01:13 PM)J24 Wrote: First off I said we had unkowns not bad players at RG and RT, secondly Bodine is a decent run blocker and a terrible pass protector, and thirddly all of the Ced excuses the team is saying is complete crap because no player should be that bad. He showed zero signs of improvement; how is that possible. He also struggled in college with a lot of sacks. So he probably just isnt that good. Also you say it wasn't smart to extend Whitworth but why didn't the Bengals franchise him for this season?  Losing a HOF Lt is pure stupidity when we had the money and the use of a franchise tag to keep him.

#DatAthleticismTho, amirite?!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-19-2017, 01:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Boling is currently recovering from shoulder surgery. He's on track to return for TC, but he could miss some and/or could be brought back slowly to full workload.

Still, Boling should be 100% come opening day.

This is better than last year when he was playing with a bum shoulder all year.

I don't get being pessimistic at this point.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-19-2017, 12:58 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You're welcome dude, Fisher looks like Drago in his camp pics. Seriously he is in the best shape i have ever seen a lineman.

Thought Hunt came back from Indy and switched to OL, glad i was mistaken and it was Fisher.

Haven't heard much of Westerman from the coaches but quite a bit on Redmond. This could be telling.

From what I head down there, they love Fisher's toughness and his attitude.  A fiery guy with a case of the red ass...and he just got a "place at the table"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOuAh22Ui68

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-19-2017, 01:46 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: From what I head down there, they love Fisher's toughness and his attitude.  A fiery guy with a case of the red ass...and he just got a "place at the table"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOuAh22Ui68

LMAO!!!

That is being pumped Ha Ha!

[kevin]

(05-16-2017, 09:55 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Same no fan of the team would use that word to describe the team.


Its pretty obvious we are gonna spread the field to help the OL this season

No, No, No.....First you block.....then you spread the field with passing and running......

If you can't block, the only thing that gets spread is the QB spread out on the ground or the RB spread for a loss.  

I don't know where some fans get the idea that drafting a RB or a WR is going to help the O Line....It never does....Either you can block or you can't.  If we can't block,  the best players ever couldn't spread the field.  ....When the ball is snapped, you either have blocking or you don't..

Bengals not only let Whitworth and Zeitler leave but they waited until their 8th pick to take an O Lineman.  They had 3 picks in Round 4 and passed on some good blockers and even early in 5 took a kicker, which is a questionable pick in 5.  They did get Andre Smith back....

The word isn't PANIC.....The word is KEY......It is KEY that Bengals put together an O Line this summer.  Right now, I would say we have worst O Line in NFL and that means losing season, I don't care who we drafted......So it is KEY, that the coaches turn what we have into enough blocking to win.....NOT PANIC.....BUT KEY.......KEY that coaches turn what we have into enough blocking to win.......THIS is the biggest challenge for this team this summer and preseason.  

If we can't block, we sure as heck won't be spreading the field.  More like quarterbacks getting sacked as soon as the ball is snapped.  

I hope they can coach these 14 O Linemen up and have enough blocking to Win......GO BENGALS. .....I wish they had addressed this area more in the draft. I hope they didn't take too many finesse players and not enough big men blockers. ....Come preseason I'm going to be watching to see if we have blocking or are our QB's and RB's getting killed. It may be the O Line doesn't come together until regular season. The Bengals offensive line is a very weak area going into this season. Since I want my Bengals to WIN, i know you can't WIN without BLOCKING....So I'm hoping the coaches get them good enough to WIN. ..I would say the O Line coach for Bengals may have the hardest job in NFL this summer, turning these 14 no names into a Solid NFL Blocking Unit.

[bengals67]

Bodine has been awful. 26th best center in league after 3 years is not acceptable.

There has been a running debate about Paul Alexander. No doubt he was a good coach in past years.

Many think he has seen his best days and that a new coach has been needed for several years.

This year will prove whether Bodine has been worth the investment and whether Alexander is still a good coach.

If Bodine and the two new tackles pay at an average NFL level, we could have a good season and maybe win a playoff game.

If Bodine remains the 26th best center and the tackles play at Bodine's below average level or worse, it will be a long year with many injuries in our skill positions including WRs who will be vulnerable because of passes from Dalton that are rushed.

[Stingray1931]

(05-17-2017, 04:23 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: He's right that we need a solid O line, but as soon as I saw that "B" word, I stopped reading.  He lost all credibility with me.  If he wants to post that crap, he needs to get out of Jungle Noise.  Jungle Noise is for Bengal fans.

I couldn't agree more. I automatically put any poster who uses that word on ignore.