NFL Network- Bengals RB Touches

[2MinutesHate]

It wouldn't surprise me to see Hill get cut. He hasn't ran for over 4.0 YPC in his past two seasons. Granted, the line sucks and can't run block all that well, but Burkhead did have a 4.6 YPC as a 3rd string RB. So, what's Hill's excuse? He's only 24, so he has plenty of tread left you'd think. If the line improves, I think they could all see equal time, as they might all be able to do some damage in their own specific way.

[Hoofhearted]

(05-22-2017, 11:21 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote: It wouldn't surprise me to see Hill get cut.  He hasn't ran for over 4.0 YPC in his past two seasons.  Granted, the line sucks and can't run block all that well, but Burkhead did have a 4.6 YPC as a 3rd string RB.  So, what's Hill's excuse?  He's only 24, so he has plenty of tread left you'd think.  If the line improves, I think they could all see equal time, as they might all be able to do some damage in their own specific way.

He's still on his rookie deal and only cost around 1 mil for around 10 TDs a year. Still not that bad value, even if his YPC is crap. 

[Au165]

(05-22-2017, 11:21 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote: It wouldn't surprise me to see Hill get cut.  He hasn't ran for over 4.0 YPC in his past two seasons.  Granted, the line sucks and can't run block all that well, but Burkhead did have a 4.6 YPC as a 3rd string RB.  So, what's Hill's excuse?  He's only 24, so he has plenty of tread left you'd think.  If the line improves, I think they could all see equal time, as they might all be able to do some damage in their own specific way.

...they aren't cutting a guy on a rookie deal with starting experience. Especially, not with a rookie and another back coming off an ACL injury. There is no benefit to cutting versus having depth.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-22-2017, 09:26 AM)Au165 Wrote: This was from Peter King's MMQB today.

"But I’m going to defer my grinchiness for the moment because of something one scout told me the day Joe Mixon was drafted. “Best back I’ve scouted in the draft since Adrian Peterson,” he said.

I am excited to see the kid in camp.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-21-2017, 07:53 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: NFL Network had a segment called Splitting The Touches where it goes through backfields and predicts how many carries each of the main backs will get per game.

Hill- 3

Gio- 11

Mixon- 20

First off, I still think Hill gets cut before the season starts, but I was happy with him only getting three carries if he stays because he has become a ballerina in the backfield and doesn't hit the holes.

I think our backfield has a hell of a lot more touches than 34 a game just between Bernard, Mixon, and whoever our third back is because we won't want to wear Mixon down, but he's a great back, so I don't see him taking a lot of big hits, and I also think he'll get 5 or so catches in the pass game. I see him getting 25 touches a game, although I do think Marvin might be too cautious with him in not wanting to run him into the ground, which I don't think is a possibility at 25 a game considering he's not a pounder. He can lower his pads and pound if need-be, but he's just great when he gets a bit of space, so he doesn't need to be a pounder.

Gio with 10 might make sense except I think we'll have the ball a lot more and so he'll have a lot more opportunities. I also think see him in the slot a lot more as a receiver and we'll use him a lot more in the scat-back type, sort of in a Darren Sproles type role.

Am I right in thinking that this "expert" evaluation was off?

I actually hope it is somewhat like that, might be off a bit but if Mixon is getting the majority of the touches we are doing
the right thing. With his vision and hands the dude should be deadly out there. Hill has such bad vision and doesn't hit the
hole hard anymore, like you said, he dances around too much and thinks he is a scat back.

I doubt they cut Hill though, he is still good at punching it in the endzone.

I sure hope Gio gets back to being that player before the Shazier hit, if so we will have a great RB duo once again. Loved
his burst and fearlessness he had before that hit. Gio coming off injury is another reason why Mixon should be the main
guy and is another reason i doubt we cut Hill.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-22-2017, 10:50 AM)Au165 Wrote: It's not about touches so much as it's about snaps. Reason being you can be in on a passing play that had no intentions of going to you and it can be checked to a run and the same goes for the inverse. You want to be able to get on the field, and for a rookie that comes down to being able to pass protect. From everything I have seen Mixon can pass protect which means he should be able to see the field often early on.

(05-22-2017, 11:19 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yessir. Mixon was rated something like 98% in pass pro efficiency, so he's going to be better than Hill at this which means he will most likely see more snaps than Hill. But Hill will probably get more "touches" than Mixon, especially early on. 

This, i understand why CJD and some don't think Mixon will start on day one cause of the past but he is a great pass
blocker already and Dalton has already spoken of being excited about the guy cause of his versatility and that he has
great hands. Mixon will do too well in the Preseason for him to not be the main dude IMHO.

Hill will be the short yardage back most likely. He will definately get more than 3 touches a game.

[Bronze Bengal]

I agree Mixon will get the most touches per game but no way Hill only gets three. Good article though.

[fredtoast]

Hard to say withoiut knowing Gios health status, but if he is 100% healthy Hill will not get a lot of touches.

That being said Hill is not near as bad as some people here like to claim. Last year he was 18th in rushing yards, 8th in rushing tds, and 31st (out of 42 RBs with at least 100 carries) in yards per carry. Those aren't great stats, but not near bad enough to get a young player released.

[*ochocincos*]

For as frustrating as Hill has been from a YPC standpoint, he's scored a lot of TDs in the past three years. In an offense that was so bad at getting into the end zone, Hill was one of the few who actually was able to do so, so you keep him primarily for that reason.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-21-2017, 08:23 PM)Quantum Bengal Wrote: I'm hoping Mixon is our primary back.  But, I do realize Marvin isn't a fan of playing rookies. We know what Hill is at this point, I think Mixon has the potential to be special.

Andy Dalton
AJ Green
Jermaine Gresham
Jordan Shipley
Carlos Dunlap
Vontaze Burfict
Leon Hall
JJo
Jeremy Hill
Gio Bernard
Russell Bodine
Odell Thurman
David Pollack
Tyler Boyd
Tyler Eifert
Kevin Zeitler
Rey Maualuga
Keith Rivers
Andrew Whitworth
Chris Perry
Eric Steinbach

(05-21-2017, 10:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If I were to guess I'd say Hill has the most carries of any RB in out backfield. I also think Gio will have more touches than Mixon

It could go that way. It might not. I think it's really hard to tell right now. A lot depends on how Mixon looks in TC.

(05-22-2017, 11:19 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yessir. Mixon was rated something like 98% in pass pro efficiency, so he's going to be better than Hill at this which means he will most likely see more snaps than Hill. But Hill will probably get more "touches" than Mixon, especially early on. 

This is what I think greatly increases the odds of Mixon seeing significant touches. He's ready to hit the ground running. Honestly, I think it'd be dumb to spend a 2nd rounder on a risky RB, then have him sit a year. Rarely do you see a RB get drafted that high only to see him sit the bench as a rookie. RB is probably the position where a rookie is most likely to have an impact, as there really isn't as much to learn.

[BFritz21]

(05-22-2017, 09:14 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The Bengals will love their shiny new toy in Mixon, both as a RB and as a receiving threat.  I do, however, think they will try to ease him in to the rotation and not wear him out the first half of the season.  

Since Brad interpreted "touches" as carries, I would say that Hill will get quite a bit more than three and Mixon less than 20.  Hill will get every opportunity to take advantage of defenses having one less guy in the box as he will be playing for a new contract.  Not here, but for somewhere else.  You don't cut a guy in his contract year, at least not at the beginning of the season.  If at the mid-point Hill is an absolute liability, I could see them greatly reducing his snaps, but they want that compensatory pick when he signed somewhere else next year.  Look at what the Bengals got in the 6th round this year.  I really doubt they would not keep him in an effort to earn another later compensatory pick.

I didn't interpret touches and carries and actually pointed out that out in my description of Mixon in the passing game, and I think that that's another reason that Mixon gets a lot more touches because of what he offers as a receiver.

I didn't even think about the compensatory pick, but that's a great point.

Let's hope that, if we do keep him, he realizes that this season is an audition for a new team and stops sissy-footing around in the backfield.  

(05-22-2017, 12:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I actually hope it is somewhat like that, might be off a bit but if Mixon is getting the majority of the touches we are doing
the right thing. With his vision and hands the dude should be deadly out there. Hill has such bad vision and doesn't hit the
hole hard anymore, like you said, he dances around too much and thinks he is a scat back.

I doubt they cut Hill though, he is still good at punching it in the endzone.

I sure hope Gio gets back to being that player before the Shazier hit, if so we will have a great RB duo once again. Loved
his burst and fearlessness he had before that hit. Gio coming off injury is another reason why Mixon should be the main
guy and is another reason i doubt we cut Hill.

Other people mentioned Hill's short yardage abilities, too, but let's not overlook that Mixon is no slouch at lowering his pad levels and driving into the endzone, either.

I just see Mixon as a do-it-all guy that can take our offense to the next level.

I can see us keeping Hill because of us needing another between-the-tackles back, but, if I had it my way, I'd cut Hill and use that money to overpay a FA center if one comes available.

Then again, there is the compensation pick factor.

[Hoofhearted]

(05-22-2017, 02:18 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This is what I think greatly increases the odds of Mixon seeing significant touches. He's ready to hit the ground running. Honestly, I think it'd be dumb to spend a 2nd rounder on a risky RB, then have him sit a year. Rarely do you see a RB get drafted that high only to see him sit the bench as a rookie. RB is probably the position where a rookie is most likely to have an impact, as there really isn't as much to learn.

I wouldn't put a whole lot of emphasis on that stat tho. It goes without saying that taking on a blitzing LB or DL in the NFL is vastly different than NCAA. NFL also does a better job of disguising those blitzes. But he will be better than Hill as a rookie in pass pro, and we'll be running a lot more quick read plays, so that means that Mixon should be running out of the slot or backfield over Hill every week in those instances. Mixon will almost certainly get more snaps than Hill, but I doubt he gets more touches, especially when Gio returns. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-22-2017, 08:28 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think people who expect Mixon to start on week 1 and get 20 to 25 touches from that game and going forward will be disappointed.

Unless he just shreds the preseason. But even then, you still have to hold your breath with Marv when there's an incumbent. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-22-2017, 01:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Hard to say withoiut knowing Gios health status, but if he is 100% healthy Hill will not get a lot of touches.

That being said Hill is not near as bad as some people here like to claim.  Last year he was 18th in rushing yards, 8th in rushing tds, and 31st (out of 42 RBs with at least 100 carries) in yards per carry.  Those aren't great stats, but not near bad enough to get a young player released.

He really isn't as bad as made out, i just think more was expected of him after his rookie year.

If you play out his current stats over the course of 10 years, he's just shy of 10,000 yards and 100 TDs. That's not bad at all if the consistency holds up.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-22-2017, 02:55 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I wouldn't put a whole lot of emphasis on that stat tho. It goes without saying that taking on a blitzing LB or DL in the NFL is vastly different than NCAA. NFL also does a better job of disguising those blitzes. But he will be better than Hill as a rookie in pass pro, and we'll be running a lot more quick read plays, so that means that Mixon should be running out of the slot or backfield over Hill every week in those instances. Mixon will almost certainly get more snaps than Hill, but I doubt he gets more touches, especially when Gio returns. 

He's a better pass blocker than Hill was coming out, and Hill obviously played a lot. With as many rookie RBs as I see playing every year, I think people either (a) overestimate how important pass blocking is for a RB (none of them are going to be great at stopping 250+ lb defenders) or (b) how hard it is to teach a RB how to block at the NFL level. 

Basically, I see no reason not to play Mixon from jump unless he somehow disappoints in TC. They took the risk for a reason. Now play him. He can't be worse than what we had last year.

Plus the drafting of Mixon all but ensures that Hill won't be around next year. Why wait to integrate Mixon when he's clearly the future lead back?

[McC]

(05-22-2017, 08:17 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think those numbers make sense by the end of the year but I will be absolutely shocked if Mixon has anywhere close to 20 carries per game in the first 3 to 4 weeks of the season.

I think he'll probably get closer to 10 touches per game until around week 8.

Also, no way Hill gets cut. He's our starting RB. He won't be next season, but for the time being, Mixon needs to surpass him. And we all know how slow Lewis is to promote a rookie over an established veteran; even if he should.

Take on the baggage and make him sit?  I doubt it.

[McC]

I say the job is Mixon's to lose. Jeremy will get carries but how many will depend on what he does with them. Hopefully, Burkhead turned a light on for the coaches.

[CJD]

(05-22-2017, 03:45 PM)McC Wrote: Take on the baggage and make him sit?  I doubt it.

I don't recall saying he should sit...

[McC]

(05-22-2017, 03:54 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't recall saying he should sit...

Sit, as in not start.  My bad.  No offense.

[PikesPeakUC]

I think the three running backs are good compliments for each other. Bernard, the agile pass catcher, Hill, the bruiser, and Mixon who's the all-around guy. With the growth of committees in football, it makes sense to keep all three and use them in their roles of strength, especially considering that all three will possibly take a beating behind the O-Line. The more options you have, the better.