Thread for stat geeks

[eoxyod]

(05-24-2017, 05:03 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah, pretty much what I was gonna say.  Both years looked like they could be THE years......we shall never know.  Those two teams could play o with anyone in the league.

The defense wasn't good enough in 05 to bring us the whole way, but in 2015 it was a real possibility

[Shake n Blake]

(05-24-2017, 05:09 PM)eoxyod Wrote: The defense wasn't good enough in 05 to bring us the whole way, but in 2015 it was a real possibility

Agreed. Assuming no Marvin Lewis choke specials, I think the 2005 team could've beaten the Steelers, but would've lost to the Colts.

At the time Dalton went down, the Bengals were averaging 376.3 yards per game, which would've ranked 5th that year. They averaged 27.8 ppg, which would've ranked 4th. The defense was 11th in yards and 2nd in points allowed. This was certainly the best Bengals team of the Marvin era.

That said, the 2013 team wasn't far behind and was better than the 2005 team. In 2013, we were 10th in yards and 6th in points scored. The defense was 3rd in yards allowed and 5th in points allowed. We all saw the result.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-24-2017, 04:29 PM)eoxyod Wrote: The 05 and 15 offenses were near unstoppable until QB injury came into play

Those were really good offenses...but not the best offense in the league.

In points for...we were 4th in 2005.

Percentage of drives ending in a score was 41.9%. That would rank slightly above the Patriots average since 1999.

Percentage of drives ending with a turnover was 11.2...which was almost exactly what the Patriots averaged over that span.

So basically at our absolute best...we were the Patriots average.

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-24-2017, 12:25 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: No, Marv turned this franchise around when he came here. Fun fact: we didn't win more than 8 games from 1991-2002, and only won less than 8 games 4 times unders Lewis 14 year tenure. big difference. 

What about the 14 seasons before the lost decade +?

1977-1990
106-108 record
That includes 4 seasons with 4 wins, but...
4 playoff appearances with 5 playoff wins and
2 super bowl appearances. 5-4 playoff record overall.

Saying Marv "turned the franchise around" isn't all that it's made out to be when you look at the rest of the Bengals history. 

Even when they were mediocre, record wise in that stretch, they still won playoff games. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-24-2017, 06:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Agreed. Assuming no Marvin Lewis choke specials, I think the 2005 team could've beaten the Steelers, but would've lost to the Colts.

At the time Dalton went down, the Bengals were averaging 376.3 yards per game, which would've ranked 5th that year. They averaged 27.8 ppg, which would've ranked 4th. The defense was 11th in yards and 2nd in points allowed. This was certainly the best Bengals team of the Marvin era.

That said, the 2013 team wasn't far behind and was better than the 2005 team. In 2013, we were 10th in yards and 6th in points scored. The defense was 3rd in yards allowed and 5th in points allowed. We all saw the result.

'13 is why i don't put any stock in "if the QB hadn't been injured" in '05 and '15. 

They still managed to choke a home playoff game away against a team they handled in San Diego earlier in the year. Marv's teams always find some way to choke it away. 

[Thundercloud]

Thanks a lot Shake. Appreciate the work.

[Hoofhearted]

(05-25-2017, 12:49 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: What about the 14 seasons before the lost decade +?

1977-1990
106-108 record
That includes 4 seasons with 4 wins, but...
4 playoff appearances with 5 playoff wins and
2 super bowl appearances. 5-4 playoff record overall.

Saying Marv "turned the franchise around" isn't all that it's made out to be when you look at the rest of the Bengals history. 

Even when they were mediocre, record wise in that stretch, they still won playoff games. 

You finishing my thought of what the biggest problem is then 

Who was in charge from 91 on? There's all you need to know.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-24-2017, 05:09 PM)eoxyod Wrote: The defense wasn't good enough in 05 to bring us the whole way, but in 2015 it was a real possibility

Defense was questionable, for sure.  However, didn't it lead the league in turnovers that year?  I'm going solely off memory there....

[eoxyod]

(05-25-2017, 11:47 AM)Wyche Wrote: Defense was questionable, for sure.  However, didn't it lead the league in turnovers that year?  I'm going solely off memory there....

It did, but it completely relied on turnovers. That's not a consistent enough result made to prove consistent success

[McC]

(05-24-2017, 04:20 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: That 2005 Offense was pretty good with Palmer, Chad, Henry, TJ, Rudi, Kelly, that O Line was bad to the bone.

If Palmer wouldn't had gotten hurt there's no doubt in my mind that the Bengals would be Super Bowl Champs.

It was a great offense. The defense created so many turnovers.  They could be had, though, which brings me to my point.

There is no doubt in my mind that we would have beaten the Steelers that terrible night of the what if.  I don't believe for a second we would have beaten the Colts, though.  I don't believe the '05 team wins the SB because I don't believe they get there.  The Colts owned us in that era.

[sandwedge]

(05-25-2017, 12:49 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: What about the 14 seasons before the lost decade +?

1977-1990
106-108 record
That includes 4 seasons with 4 wins, but...
4 playoff appearances with 5 playoff wins and
2 super bowl appearances. 5-4 playoff record overall.

Saying Marv "turned the franchise around" isn't all that it's made out to be when you look at the rest of the Bengals history. 

Even when they were mediocre, record wise in that stretch, they still won playoff games. 

No doubt we won playoff games then, but we had some bad teams also. Kenny was booed and yanked from the line up a few times. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-25-2017, 12:05 PM)eoxyod Wrote: It did, but it completely relied on turnovers. That's not a consistent enough result made to prove consistent success

Oh, I agree......100%.  However, if you get those turnovers at the most opportune times, ya never know.  I'm with you though, 2015 was the *best* shot.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Talking about the "What If" seasons just goes to show that the Bengals are a bad luck or snake bit team.

From Greg Cook to Stanley Wilson to Tim Krumrei to KiJana Carter to Carson Palmer to Andy Dalton. 50 years of teams good enough to get to the Super Bowl, good enough to win the Super Bowl cut short by stupid and injury.

Let's just hope the next 50 years will break that curse or whatever it is.

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-25-2017, 09:03 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: You finishing my thought of what the biggest problem is then 

Who was in charge from 91 on? There's all you need to know.

Yep. Went straight down the toilet the minute he took over. 

[Bengal Dude]

(05-25-2017, 11:47 AM)Wyche Wrote: Defense was questionable, for sure.  However, didn't it lead the league in turnovers that year?  I'm going solely off memory there....

Those turnovers were huge. Even with all of them we still finished 28th overall in defense.