According to yahoo, Bengals tied with Giants for 18th best QB options in the NFL

[Pat5775]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/tom-brady-matt-ryan-ranking-every-nfl-teams-quarterback-situation-185432048.html

I'm not exactly a Dalton homer though I'm far from a hater. But are they serious? They made it sound like the sacks he took last year were all his fault, yet they praise 9th ranked Russell Wilson for making the Seahawks good in a "bad year" and mention his offensive line the worst in the league. They didn't even take into account Dalton was up there in the 2015 MVP talk with Newton and Palmer before his thumb injury. Dalton may not be top ten worthy but he's certainly better than "tied for 18th". Blows my mind how we (mainly, Dalton) never gets any respect.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Sounds legit

[Shake n Blake]

Wilson: 353-546-4219-21-11
92.6 rating (ranked 14th)
41 sacks

Dalton: 364-563-4206-18-8
91.8 rating (ranked 15th)
41 sacks

The seasons couldn't be any more similar. Even the rushing numbers were close. The fact that the narratives are so different tells you all you need to know about the media. I guess if Dalton wins a SB, he won't get this kind of treatment, but I have to wonder who would have the ring if they'd swapped teams.

[*ochocincos*]

(06-29-2017, 02:55 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/tom-brady-matt-ryan-ranking-every-nfl-teams-quarterback-situation-185432048.html

I'm not exactly a Dalton homer though I'm far from a hater. But are they serious? They made it sound like the sacks he took last year were all his fault, yet they praise 9th ranked Russell Wilson for making the Seahawks good in a "bad year" and mention his offensive line the worst in the league. They didn't even take into account Dalton was up there in the 2015 MVP talk with Newton and Palmer before his thumb injury. Dalton may not be top ten worthy but he's certainly better than "tied for 18th". Blows my mind how we (mainly, Dalton) never gets any respect.

Rankings like this assume that young guys like Winston, Mariota, Carr, Prescott still have room to grow after coming off an improved and (very) good year. After six seasons, Dalton isn't given that same optimism. He's viewed as being as good as he'll ever get. Just like Joe Flacco also got similar praise that Mariota and Prescott are getting for exceeding expectations, but if you look back at Flacco, he's only just now surpassed 4,000 yards passing in a season and doesn't have a great TD-to-INT ratio. Kaepernick also had the same optimism after 2013-2014 and we know how that turned out. I think Prescott and Mariota especially will be similar to Flacco/Kaepernick and won't improve much from what they've already shown. I do think that Carr should be top 10, but ahead of Roethlisberger or Cam is a bit wishful thinking than truth at this point.

What I don't get is the love for Tyrod Taylor. He's only ever had around 3500 total yards on offense and has been carried by a great run game and solid defense. His ranking even states they expect him to grow by adding more weapons. I honestly don't see it. I think he'll follow the same path Kaepernick did and when all is said and done, Dalton will prove to be better.

[BFritz21]

I saw that and got pissed off but then remembered that we're Bengals fans and it's par-for-the-course.

Honestly, if our line holds up, we'll prove everyone wrong and all of these sites that have our team ranked in the 20s can take it and shove it up their pie hole.

The line does worry me, though, and I feel like our year could be shot before it even gets started. I'm holding out hope that Mixon can keep defenses honest and that our tackles can at least be average, but the fear will be there until we put it on the field.

[Shake n Blake]

(06-29-2017, 03:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Rankings like this assume that young guys like Winston, Mariota, Carr, Prescott still have room to grow after coming off an improved and (very) good year. After six seasons, Dalton isn't given that same optimism. He's viewed as being as good as he'll ever get. Just like Joe Flacco also got similar praise that Mariota and Prescott are getting for exceeding expectations, but if you look back at Flacco, he's only just now surpassed 4,000 yards passing in a season and doesn't have a great TD-to-INT ratio. Kaepernick also had the same optimism after 2013-2014 and we know how that turned out. I think Prescott and Mariota especially will be similar to Flacco/Kaepernick and won't improve much from what they've already shown. I do think that Carr should be top 10, but ahead of Roethlisberger or Cam is a bit wishful thinking than truth at this point.

What I don't get is the love for Tyrod Taylor. He's only ever had around 3500 total yards on offense and has been carried by a great run game and solid defense. His ranking even states they expect him to grow by adding more weapons. I honestly don't see it. I think he'll follow the same path Kaepernick did and when all is said and done, Dalton will prove to be better.

Heck...Tyrod's own team barely wants him. It was rumored they'd let him walk, but they brought him back on essentially a cheap 1 year contract when there were no clear upgrades available. 

Quote:The Buffalo News' Vic Carucci reports the sense from the Combine is that the Bills are leaning toward moving on from Tyrod Taylor.

The Bills can't seem to make up their mind, and reports have been flip-flopping back and forth on this subject for weeks. Speaking at the Combine, coach Sean McDermott would only say the organization is still evaluating Taylor. Per Carucci, if the $30.75 million guaranteed wasn't tied to Taylor over the next two years, the Bills would likely be bringing him back for 2017. Taylor has been unwilling to renegotiate his contract. The 49ers, Browns, and Jets are expected to show interest in Taylor if he ends up being released by Buffalo.

----------------------

Tyrod Taylor has agreed to a restructured contract to stay with the Bills.

Buffalo didn't have good alternatives, unless it wanted to accept a clear downgrade like Nick Foles and use the money saved from Taylor to improve the team elsewhere. Smartly, GM Doug Whaley realized keeping Taylor was the best option. New OC Rick Dennison campaigned for Taylor after the two worked together in Baltimore. Taylor isn't a top-end passer, but he is a top-20 NFL quarterback whose dual-threat and deep-passing ability give Buffalo's run game a significant boost. The Bills have finished 12th and 10th in the NFL in points scored in Taylor's two seasons as a starter.

The latest news is that the Bills are planning on having an open QB competition for 2017:

Quote:Speaking with the MMQB's Peter King, new Bills GM Brandon Beane promised an "open competition" at quarterback.

Coach Sean McDermott initially said Tyrod Taylor is the quarterback of the future, but he amended after Beane's comments, saying it "remains to be seen." Beane added Monday that the Bills will continue to "turn over every stone" until they are "100 percent set" at quarterback. Despite a completely new front office and coaching staff, it is clear Taylor's spot atop the depth chart remains precarious. He would leave over $8.5 million in dead cap, but the Bills can get out of Taylor's contract after this season.

[*bfine32*]

When analyst after analyst from site after site puts Andy closer to 20 than to 10 who is wrong? Them or those that say they are wrong. I look at that list and see "about right"' I could make a case that Andy gets the nod over Tannehill and Taylor; however, I could make an equally strong case that Rivers and Smith should be above him.

I find the ranking to be close and the comments to be promising. What do folks want?

[*ochocincos*]

(06-30-2017, 01:00 AM)bfine32 Wrote: When analyst after analyst from site after site puts Andy closer to 20 than to 10 who is wrong? Them or those that say they are wrong. I look at that list and see "about right"' I could make a case that Andy gets the nod over Tannehill and Taylor; however, I could make an equally strong case that Rivers and Smith should be above him.

I find the ranking to be close and the comments to be promising. What do folks want?

Andy in the 11-15 range.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-30-2017, 08:50 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Andy in the 11-15 range.

^^^^^This..... :andy:

[*bengalfan74*]

Andy Dalton gets a 3 or 4 spot reduction just because he's a Bengal. Like it or not, fair or unfair that's just how it is !

Outside of the Cincinnati area and our site and other die hard fans the Bengals still get a little snicker from most folks when they're mentioned. We're probably a rung above league laughing stock, but just barely.

And until we can beat Pittsburgh and win a couple playoff games, especially the Super Bowl we're (Dalton included) going to get no respect.

[*ochocincos*]

(06-30-2017, 11:04 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Andy Dalton gets a 3 or 4 spot reduction just because he's a Bengal. Like it or not, fair or unfair that's just how it is !

Outside of the Cincinnati area and our site and other die hard fans the Bengals still get a little snicker from most folks when they're mentioned. We're probably a rung above league laughing stock, but just barely.

And until we can beat Pittsburgh and win a couple playoff games, especially the Super Bowl we're (Dalton included) going to get no respect.

The Bengals have beaten Pittsburgh three times in the past six seasons (3-10 including playoffs). Sure, it's not a winning record against them, but it's not like it hasn't happened since Dalton became QB.

The only thing that matters is Dalton being the QB when the Bengals win playoff games. Yes, plural. If the Bengals win just one, it will be fantastic for the Bengals fans and team itself, but the rest of the NFL won't all of a sudden put Dalton up on the next tier until he does it multiple times.

IMO Dalton will need to make the AFC championship game before he's being discussed with the likes of Newton, Stafford, etc.

[sandwedge]

(06-30-2017, 11:41 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The Bengals have beaten Pittsburgh three times in the past six seasons (3-10 including playoffs). Sure, it's not a winning record against them, but it's not like it hasn't happened since Dalton became QB.

The only thing that matters is Dalton being the QB when the Bengals win playoff games. Yes, plural. If the Bengals win just one, it will be fantastic for the Bengals fans and team itself, but the rest of the NFL won't all of a sudden put Dalton up on the next tier until he does it multiple times.

IMO Dalton will need to make the AFC championship game before he's being discussed with the likes of Newton, Stafford, etc.

I like Stafford, he puts up huge numbers but what has he done? 
Can't stand Newton, but they pretty much made that SB on the backs of their defense. Newton was horrible lastyear. Some may argue he didn't have anyone to throw to but neither did Dalton. Andy pretty much kept this offense competitive lastyear by himself IMO. 
Not to get off topic, but this is kind of like, why is Fouts in the HOF and not Anderson if respect comes from only winning Super Bowls??

[*ochocincos*]

(06-30-2017, 12:00 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I like Stafford, he puts up huge numbers but what has he done? 
Can't stand Newton, but they pretty much made that SB on the backs of their defense. Newton was horrible lastyear. Some may argue he didn't have anyone to throw to but neither did Dalton. Andy pretty much kept this offense competitive lastyear by himself IMO. 
Not to get off topic, but this is kind of like, why is Fouts in the HOF and not Anderson if respect comes from only winning Super Bowls??

You're right, Matt Stafford doesn't have postseason success either. But he's viewed differently because his teams have often suffered from crappy defense and a lack of true playmakers outside of Calvin.

Stafford has about 8,000 more passing yards than Dalton while playing two more seasons, however he missed 19 games his first two years.
Stafford's TD-to-INT ratio is 2.15 whereas Dalton's is 1.75.

It's not like Stafford is projected that much higher than Dalton either. He's around 15 whereas Dalton is 18. So these rankings from people slight Stafford too for lack of postseason success.
But essentially, it will take playoff win(s) to jump Stafford because of the perception of Stafford having less than what Dalton has had to work with and putting up better per-year stats than Dalton on a consistent basis.

Regarding Cam, I shouldn't have lumped Stafford and Cam together. That wasn't my intent to say they are on the same level. Cam's prowess comes from his ability to lead the Panthers to the Super Bowl against Denver after what most people thought would be a disastrous season when Benjamin went down to injury that year. Dalton will need to make the AFC championship game to even be discussed with Cam IMO.

[*bfine32*]

(06-30-2017, 08:50 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Andy in the 11-15 range.

Let's make it easy. Give me you top 14 QBs

[BenZoo2]

Who cares about about theses rankings? Dalton is s good qb. He is not elite. That's not a knock. He's not a bad qb. When looking at dalton you just simply lump him in the tier of good qbs. Is there really a big difference from 10 to 14 to 18? Probably not much


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[*ochocincos*]

(06-30-2017, 04:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Let's make it easy. Give me you top 14 QBs

I've already provided a tier list in another thread. But I'll oblige.

1-10 (All better than Dalton will very little to no argument):
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger
Cam Newton
Andrew Luck
Matt Ryan
Russell Wilson
Philip Rivers
Eli Manning

11-15 (None of these really separate themselves over Dalton):
Matthew Stafford
Andy Dalton
Alex Smith
Kirk Cousins (want to see another season like his past two years before I rate him higher)
Derek Carr (want to see more than 3 full seasons, would like to see more than 4000 yards passing given his receiving weapons before I rate higher)

[*bengalfan74*]

(06-30-2017, 11:41 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The Bengals have beaten Pittsburgh three times in the past six seasons (3-10 including playoffs). Sure, it's not a winning record against them, but it's not like it hasn't happened since Dalton became QB.

The only thing that matters is Dalton being the QB when the Bengals win playoff games. Yes, plural. If the Bengals win just one, it will be fantastic for the Bengals fans and team itself, but the rest of the NFL won't all of a sudden put Dalton up on the next tier until he does it multiple times.

IMO Dalton will need to make the AFC championship game before he's being discussed with the likes of Newton, Stafford, etc.

I'm not blaming our abysmal record against Pittsburgh on Dalton, not at all. I'm simply saying until we can win games that matter and get past the Steelers in the playoffs the narrative about Dalton is going to remain in place.

[*bfine32*]

(06-30-2017, 05:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I've already provided a tier list in another thread. But I'll oblige.

1-10 (All better than Dalton will very little to no argument):
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger
Cam Newton
Andrew Luck
Matt Ryan
Russell Wilson
Philip Rivers
Eli Manning

11-15 (None of these really separate themselves over Dalton):
Matthew Stafford
Andy Dalton
Alex Smith
Kirk Cousins (want to see another season like his past two years before I rate him higher)
Derek Carr (want to see more than 3 full seasons, would like to see more than 4000 yards passing given his receiving weapons before I rate higher)

So you have Andy above "separated from":

Marcus Mariota
Carson Palmer
Sam Bradford
Jamis Winston
Dak Prescott

Give him a homer rank of 15th. Why do folks get mad when a site rates him late teens? The dude is a mid-tier QB. Too good to replace, not good enough to carry a team.  Folks that say they want to see more from the young QBs were the same folks that were comparing him to Peyton and Brady after 3 years. 

[Pat5775]

For me, it's not so much the overall ranking, it's just the lack of respect when describing why he's ranked where he is.

"There aren’t many guys who could put up the raw numbers — 18 touchdowns to eight interceptions, over 4,200 yards and a nearly 65 percent completion rate — that Dalton did and be considered a complete bust. The 18 scores were a career low, though, and a seven-touchdown drop-off from 2015."

To me, that just reeks of cynicism. You see it just about everywhere. Plenty of Dalton articles out there are loaded with backhanded compliments and occasionally outright mockery. Once again, they completely ignored what Dalton did in 2015. Dalton was right up there in the MVP talks and was on pace to set some Bengal records before his thumb injury. He was actually getting respect in the media. But they've clearly forgotten all about that. Also, the media always ignores that Dalton has lead the team to the playoffs 5 times in 6 tries, and he did it with a few different coordinators and Marvin F***in' Lewis as his head coach the whole time. That has to count for something.

[*Nately120*]

(06-30-2017, 12:00 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I like Stafford, he puts up huge numbers but what has he done? 
Can't stand Newton, but they pretty much made that SB on the backs of their defense. Newton was horrible lastyear. Some may argue he didn't have anyone to throw to but neither did Dalton. Andy pretty much kept this offense competitive lastyear by himself IMO. 
Not to get off topic, but this is kind of like, why is Fouts in the HOF and not Anderson if respect comes from only winning Super Bowls??

Stafford and Dalton are both guys that play admirably for teams that just don't win. It's s systemic issue with the Lions and Bengals.  As bad as our playoff win drought is the Lions have won a single playoff game since I Love Lucy stopped making new episodes. 

Ouch. The Lions got some 'splainin' to do for that.