Who is the Bengals Offensive MVP in 2017-18?

[*ochocincos*]

(07-10-2017, 02:41 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: Okay all you homers. Show me the stats on Dalton throwing 50+ yard passes the last few years. I watch the games and saw very few of them. Look at Manning passing deep all the time to his receivers. I recall a hail mary last year, but tell me more.

PFF considers a "deep ball" to be 20+ yards downfield before a catch is made.

I haven't seen the final rankings, but halfway through last season, Dalton was 2nd in deep ball yardage with 697 yards and had very good deep ball completion percentage (51.3%) and QBR (120.4). The thing though is most of his deep ball success came with AJ Green (56% of completions for 379 yards). Dalton had attempted the 6th-highest attempt percentage at that point in the season with 13.5%. This indicates that he tried a decent amount, it wasn't just a couple tries to skew the numbers.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-the-nfls-10-best-deep-passers-this-season

[bengalguy71]

(07-09-2017, 10:20 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: My problem with AJ Green is that Dalton can't throw a deep pass. 

I don't want to start another thread and subject that has been beaten to death, but I think there should be a forum rule here that when you make a 'matter of fact' statement like this, accompany it with facts to support it.

[SunsetBengal]

How this poll isn't lopsided for Andy Dalton, is beyond me. It's high time for some naysayers to admit that Andy is a damn good QB. I'm not going to flood you with links and stats, I don't need to. You have the ability to look them up.

[McC]

(07-10-2017, 03:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: PFF considers a "deep ball" to be 20+ yards downfield before a catch is made.

I haven't seen the final rankings, but halfway through last season, Dalton was 2nd in deep ball yardage with 697 yards and had very good deep ball completion percentage (51.3%) and QBR (120.4). The thing though is most of his deep ball success came with AJ Green (56% of completions for 379 yards). Dalton had attempted the 6th-highest attempt percentage at that point in the season with 13.5%. This indicates that he tried a decent amount, it wasn't just a couple tries to skew the numbers.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-the-nfls-10-best-deep-passers-this-season

Basically, Ady is one of the best deep ball throwers in the game.

Given time, which is a big if at this point, I think he'll be throwing a bunch of deep balls this year.  And watch out for the wheel routes too.  Mixon covered by a LB is an all day mismatch.

[*Go Cards*]

(07-10-2017, 01:19 PM)ochocincos Wrote: ...followed by Eifert going elsewhere in FA next year (perhaps Cleveland?)...

Thought this exact same thing while typing it out. lol

Hope we are wrong though. 

Yet if he does get injured this season ? Will be more than ready to part ways with Tyler.

[grampahol]

Hmmm..offensive mvp should be open to all players on the offensive side of the ball. Far be it from me to suggest Ogbuihi, but if he somehow is able to pull it off and play lights out all season I'd have no problem with saying any drastically improved offensive lineman.. 
I'm not necessarily going to predict that, but I do hope it comes to fruition. For all we know at this point it'll be Andre Smith blowing out huge holes on the right side for Mixon and/or Hill or both. 

[Brownshoe]

Dalton easy. He's going to have another deep threat in Ross, and he's going to FINALLY have a running game with Mixon now. I think he will actually have better numbers than his 2015 season. Dalton has already shown multiple years that he's one of the better deep passers in the league, and he's shown that he can easily read defenses and audible into plays that gain big yardage. If he actually had weapons in 2014 and 2016 I would say that his numbers would have been extremely good from 2013 to now. Dalton has always played outstanding when he's had decent weapons to throw to, and this year he should have really good weapons.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-10-2017, 01:08 PM)Go Cards Wrote: With Ross and AJ keeping safeties honest and Mixon bringing attention to the running game.

Believe Tyler Eiffert is in line for a monster year.

If he can stay healthy that is.

Agreed, and in a contract year, with Uzomah showing pretty well before his own injuries, he had better.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-10-2017, 01:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Last year the TE franchise tag was $9.1m.

If Eifert has a monster healthy season, tagging him is no issue at all. A second year would be ~$11m, which isn't as much as it seems considering just this offseason the TE market got destroyed by a ton of random TE getting $7m/yr+ contracts.

Think of it as basically two 1yr/$10m contracts, which he can earn if he stays healthy and productive, or don't get if he's not. It's really the best route for the Bengals rather than a long term deal.

Great point, and with Whitworth and Zeitler not on this roster, there should be money to make this and AJs deal happen.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-10-2017, 02:41 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: Okay all you homers. Show me the stats on Dalton throwing 50+ yard passes the last few years. I watch the games and saw very few of them. Look at Manning passing deep all the time to his receivers. I recall a hail mary last year, but tell me more.

What he showed you were stats on Dalton throwing the ball deep relative to his peers.  He threw it deep less last year because he didn't have the personnel to block, nor anyone but AJ (constantly doubled) had the separation to get deep.

I have a feeling we will be one of the most dangerous big-play teams in the NFL this season.  Both by average AND number of bombs.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-10-2017, 10:29 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How this poll isn't lopsided for Andy Dalton, is beyond me.  It's high time for some naysayers to admit that Andy is a damn good QB.  I'm not going to flood you with links and stats, I don't need to.  You have the ability to look them up.

I agree 100%, but when I called it MVP, I was trying to take in to account what that individual's impact would be on the entire offense.  Dalton can't improve the running game by himself, no matter how efficient he is at the short passing game.


  I voted Ross because I feel like he will do a number of things by himself:

- Slow down the pass rush
- Take the proverbial top off the defense
- Score points with simple routes that he breaks a tackle (a TD nearly every 5 times he touched the ball in college is sick)
- Help the running game by having safeties play off
- Help the slot WR and TE by pulling defenders deep
- Convert easy 3rd and 5s because of defenders playing off coverage

Now, if Ross was already here and AJ Green was the new addition, I could argue all those things for AJ because he would be the new piece that would be helping to transform this offense from effective to electric.  

It doesn't work without Andy.  He is the leader that had the elite season going with solid weapons around him in 2015 before the injury.  Ross is the missing piece of the puzzle and why the offense will soar to new heights this season.  I have been calling for a player like him for some time, and now the best example of what our team needed was our first round pick and I can't wait to see it work.

[Sled21]

(07-10-2017, 10:16 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Jeremy Hill... WHAAAAAAT

He's talking about for the Bengals, not for the Stealers....

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Since 1957, League MVP's have been either a QB or an RB except on 3 occasions where the MVP was something different...and one of those was a Placekicker, lol, that's crazy.

As for my pick for the Bengals, it will always be the starting Quarterback unless they are Akili Smith, David Klingler and the sort although Klingler had a very strong arm, that kid could throw a football through a tornado, he had a strong arm.

[Butchie Tiger]

If Mixon becomes the starting RB, I'm picking him as he's going to be a beast !!

[bengalguy71]

(07-11-2017, 02:44 PM)Butchie Tiger Wrote: If Mixon becomes the starting RB, I'm picking him as he's going to be a beast !!

Much of the same was said about Hill before his rookie season.

[3wt]

(07-10-2017, 10:16 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Jeremy Hill... WHAAAAAAT

Rep

[*bengalfan74*]

Dalton

IF, and it's a very big if ! The offensive line can get it together Dalton could have a career season. Lots of weapons if he can get the time ?

If the O-line blows as bad as it could there probably won't be any Offensive MVP.

[SunsetBengal]

(07-11-2017, 08:59 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I agree 100%, but when I called it MVP, I was trying to take in to account what that individual's impact would be on the entire offense.  Dalton can't improve the running game by himself, no matter how efficient he is at the short passing game.


  I voted Ross because I feel like he will do a number of things by himself:

- Slow down the pass rush
- Take the proverbial top off the defense
- Score points with simple routes that he breaks a tackle (a TD nearly every 5 times he touched the ball in college is sick)
- Help the running game by having safeties play off
- Help the slot WR and TE by pulling defenders deep
- Convert easy 3rd and 5s because of defenders playing off coverage

Now, if Ross was already here and AJ Green was the new addition, I could argue all those things for AJ because he would be the new piece that would be helping to transform this offense from effective to electric.  

It doesn't work without Andy.  He is the leader that had the elite season going with solid weapons around him in 2015 before the injury.  Ross is the missing piece of the puzzle and why the offense will soar to new heights this season.  I have been calling for a player like him for some time, and now the best example of what our team needed was our first round pick and I can't wait to see it work.

Actually, Andy's effectiveness in the passing game can have a dramatic effect on the running game.  If they go from formations that could mean run or pass, and he passes well, teams will sell out to cover the pass.  Then, the rushing attack gets the benefit of Andy's proliferation in the passing game.

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-10-2017, 02:41 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: Okay all you homers. Show me the stats on Dalton throwing 50+ yard passes the last few years. I watch the games and saw very few of them. Look at Manning passing deep all the time to his receivers. I recall a hail mary last year, but tell me more.

Homers. lol

From '13 through last year... (61 starts)

On passes traveling 31 yards or more, 

35-90 -- 38.8%
1682 yards
18.7 yards per attempt
48.1 yards per completion
13 touchdowns
5 interceptions

103.0 rating

'13- Tied for 1st with 15 passes of 40+ yards
'14- Tied for 18th with 7 passes of 40+ yards
'15- Tied for 8th with 11 passes of 40+ yards
'16- Tied for 3rd with 13 passes of 40+ yards

You watch the games, so it must be the drugs...

For context. Here's Manning in his last 4 full, productive seasons '10, '12-'14 (64 starts)

35-85 -- 41.2%
1508 yards
17.7 yards per attempt
43.1 yards per completion
13 touchdowns
3 interceptions

113.4 rating

'10- Tied for 10th with 9 passes of 40+ yards
'12- Tied for 17th with 7 passes of 40+ yards
'13- Tied for 4th with 13 passes of 40+ yards
'14- Tied for 4th with 11 passes of 40+ yards

I'm starting to wonder which games it is that you're watching...

[*rfaulk34*]

Oh, here's another noted play-extending, throw it down the field QB. 

Big Ben  (57 games)

36-127 -- 28.3%
1699 yards
13.4 yards per attempt
47.2 yards per completion
16 touchdowns
12 interceptions

79.4 rating

'13- Tied for 6th with 10 passes of 40+ yards
'14- Tied for 1st with 15 passes of 40+ yards
'15- 1st with 17 passes of 40+ yards
'16- Tied for 12th with 8 passes of 40+ yards

But back to the topic. It will be....ummmm, Dalton.