ESPN DOWN GRADES BENGALS DUE TO HEAD COACH

[grampahol]

The Bengals are our team folks for better or worse. We can complain from now till we all die of old age and hand the same legacy of complaints on to our kids and even grandkids and many have done just exactly that and see what it's gotten anyone. The simple truth about these teams is regardless of where they end up in the standings they win. Even the Browns with their perennial 1-15 records can still pay out millions in salaries every single season and never lose. 
Kevin Zietler left a winning franchise to play for Cleveland NOT because of their winning track record, but because they're also winners who can pay him millions of dollars. 
Its the old switcheroo trick as old as Roman times when Ceasar gave the people blood sport in exchange for letting him rule over them. So we get modern day blood sports in exchange for letting the ruling class rule over us and the Mike Browns of the world run profitable teams despite never really winning the whole shebang. 
Hey, if you really want to complain let's all get together and kill off all the ruling class and run things another way, but beware that we had better win that fight because the ruling class would have us killed in a heartbeat than give up on their ruling status.  And even then there would be just a different group of ruling elite yet to be annointed.
/end rant on how things REALLY work  

[Hoofhearted]

(07-13-2017, 10:40 AM)grampahol Wrote: The Bengals are our team folks for better or worse. We can complain from now till we all die of old age and hand the same legacy of complaints on to our kids and even grandkids and many have done just exactly that and see what it's gotten anyone. The simple truth about these teams is regardless of where they end up in the standings they win. Even the Browns with their perennial 1-15 records can still pay out millions in salaries every single season and never lose. 
Kevin Zietler left a winning franchise to play for Cleveland NOT because of their winning track record, but because they're also winners who can pay him millions of dollars. 
Its the old switcheroo trick as old as Roman times when Ceasar gave the people blood sport in exchange for letting him rule over them. So we get modern day blood sports in exchange for letting the ruling class rule over us and the Mike Browns of the world run profitable teams despite never really winning the whole shebang. 
Hey, if you really want to complain let's all get together and kill off all the ruling class and run things another way, but beware that we had better win that fight because the ruling class would have us killed in a heartbeat than give up on their ruling status.  And even then there would be just a different group of ruling elite yet to be annointed.
/end rant on how things REALLY work  

So pretty much every activist group out there are "complainers" because they don't support them the way someone else would?

[*Go Cards*]

(07-13-2017, 10:12 AM)Wyche Wrote: I get your sentiment.....but it wasn't so much quitting as it was "I would rather retire than play another down for this team".  Read what Megatron had to say about his early retirement in Detroit.  He pretty much said the same thing, and retired.  From what I gather, it's also what led Barry Sanders to call it quits early.  

True, but the time to do this without being a quitter is when ones contract expires. 

Not right after signing a huge contract. 

[sandwedge]

(07-13-2017, 10:02 AM)jj22 Wrote: Marvin is stale. All of his teams (no matter the changes in personnel) look alike (undisciplined and can't win big games, can't beat the Steelers, schooled by rookie qb's, bad challenges in big games, poor use of timeouts, no pressure on qb's in big games, star players disappear in big games). Expecting anything different in this 5th rebuild is insane. This "new" team won't reach it's heights under Marvin.  There's always hope, if you ignore history and the writing on the walls. But let's be realistic for a second, we've read this script before. This is like Saw 15.

^This^ 
My biggest fear! We have more speed pretty much everywhere on the field and we keep doing what we have for the last 12 years. We get a good lead in the game and then we "rope-a-dope" the rest of the game only to lose or have to attempt a game winning FG.  Marvin's clock management is probably the worst ever.  A minute or so to go in the 1st half, the offense folds up their picnic chairs and head home. The biggest change I can see us ever making is being more aggressive. Offense that goes full throttle and a defense that blitzes like mad men. (Please no more MJ dropping back in coverage)

[*Nately120*]

(07-13-2017, 07:59 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This own has never blamed Dalton's lack of success in the postseason on Mike Brown.  Has Marv had some lame game plans?  Sure, but I don't even put it on him.  I have always said that their losses have been a function of many variables from poor play to injuries.

Carson is the only player in the modern NFL era that I can think of that got over tens of millions of dollars from a team, and walked out on them during a contract.  So, this is his stance against the poor owner and coach?  Quit?  "Here, son, sit on dad's lap and let me tell you about the time I quit".  I'm sure that would make any kid proud of their dad.
Palmer had a better line and better weapons than Dalton.  He did not have as good a defense.  Should Dalton pout and quit because the Bengals have drafted more talent on the defensive side of the ball instead of drafting great offensive linemen and weapons for him?  Good thing Dalton is more of a team guy that makes no excuses. 

 Dalton is more of the Kurt Warner school.  Kurt Warner took two of the worst franchises in NFL history to Super Bowls and won one of them.  He didn't complain about their poor GMs or coaches, he simply worked his ass off and made the team better.  That is a man.  Not a quitter.  

Carson Palmer made a business decision which prolonged his career and got him closer to the SB than Mike Brown has been (not a huge accomplishment, granted).  You are putting way too much of your own feelings into this, but to each his own.  It's quite telling that Dalton has the chance to be the first franchise QB Mike Brown has ever had that doesn't end up demanding a trade.

Some folks say being a man is honoring your contracts.  Some might say being a man involves standing up for what you believe is right.  Marvin and Carson both wanted out after 2010 and Mike Brown wouldn't listen to either of them.  Carson gave up on Mike and moved on and Marvin gave up on Mike and stayed to coast out his career.  The fact that we are sitting here 6 seasons removed from 2010 and still complaining about Marvin Lewis speaks volumes, as well.  So, maybe Dalton is the kind of man who can play for a crap owner and HC his entire career, but that doesn't make him an automatic saint in my book.  
Again, to each his own.

(07-13-2017, 10:12 AM)Wyche Wrote: I get your sentiment.....but it wasn't so much quitting as it was "I would rather retire than play another down for this team".  Read what Megatron had to say about his early retirement in Detroit.  He pretty much said the same thing, and retired.  From what I gather, it's also what led Barry Sanders to call it quits early.  

Yep.  Two organizations that are leading the NFL in playoff win droughts have players losing faith in owners that are simply there to make money.  The owner has a right to do that if he/she wants and players have a right to "quit" on a losing mentality if they want, too.  Of course, we each have the right to see the people involved as we like.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-13-2017, 10:12 AM)Wyche Wrote: I get your sentiment.....but it wasn't so much quitting as it was "I would rather retire than play another down for this team".  Read what Megatron had to say about his early retirement in Detroit.  He pretty much said the same thing, and retired.  From what I gather, it's also what led Barry Sanders to call it quits early.  

And NFL players wonder why teams don't want to significantly front-load a contract or still have incentives in contracts....so this kind of situation doesn't happen.

I don't really remember hearing Palmer say he wanted to retire, but just that he didn't want to be here any longer.  And, judging by his play, he didn't really want to be a Raider.  Again, Kurt Warner:  Man.  Carson Palmer:  Quitter.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-13-2017, 05:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Some folks say being a man is honoring your contracts.  Some might say being a man involves standing up for what you believe is right.  

More than just honoring your contract or standing up for what you believe in, I think a large part of what makes guys like Dalton, Warner, and Brees so special to me is that they aren't pointing the finger at their supporting cast and blaming them for not getting them to the Super Bowl, they instead get more involved in the game planning, etc, and try to raise the play of those around them to the highest level.  
Warner and Brees got theirs with teams that had a much worse history than the Bengals.  When Dalton gets a ring for this team, he will have accomplished an amazing feat with a team no one thought would ever have a chance when he took over....just like Warner and Brees.  
Yes, my personal feelings are involved.  Palmer took a proverbial dump on the one thing I love more than just about everything except my family after getting paid as one of the top 3 QBs in the league.  Never looked at his own piss-poor play, but pointed the finger at the franchise.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-13-2017, 05:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Carson Palmer made a business decision which prolonged his career and got him closer to the SB than Mike Brown has been (not a huge accomplishment, granted).  You are putting way too much of your own feelings into this, but to each his own.  It's quite telling that Dalton has the chance to be the first franchise QB Mike Brown has ever had that doesn't end up demanding a trade.

Some folks say being a man is honoring your contracts.  Some might say being a man involves standing up for what you believe is right.  Marvin and Carson both wanted out after 2010 and Mike Brown wouldn't listen to either of them.  Carson gave up on Mike and moved on and Marvin gave up on Mike and stayed to coast out his career.  The fact that we are sitting here 6 seasons removed from 2010 and still complaining about Marvin Lewis speaks volumes, as well.  So, maybe Dalton is the kind of man who can play for a crap owner and HC his entire career, but that doesn't make him an automatic saint in my book.  
Again, to each his own.



Yep.  Two organizations that are leading the NFL in playoff win droughts have players losing faith in owners that are simply there to make money.  The owner has a right to do that if he/she wants and players have a right to "quit" on a losing mentality if they want, too.  Of course, we each have the right to see the people involved as we like.

Agree wholeheartedly with everything you say here.

One thing I'd like to add to the Marv/Andy dynamic.....I was having a few beers the other night with a college buddy that was in town from his new home in Katy, TX.  Yep, Andy's hometown.  He says you wouldn't believe the intensity of high school football in the area.  His high school stadium is just down the road from where my friend lives, and he says it rivals some college fields.  He was just talking about where he was living now, and out of the blue brings up ".....it's not like Andy Dalton isn't used to pressure situations in the bright lights."  We weren't even discussing Bengals football......

(07-14-2017, 08:16 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: And NFL players wonder why teams don't want to significantly front-load a contract or still have incentives in contracts....so this kind of situation doesn't happen.

I don't really remember hearing Palmer say he wanted to retire, but just that he didn't want to be here any longer.  And, judging by his play, he didn't really want to be a Raider.  Again, Kurt Warner:  Man.  Carson Palmer:  Quitter.  

I get your sentiment, I really do, but he said something to the effect that he would rather retire than play another down for the Bengals, and that's exactly what he did until the Raiders called.  He played pretty decent off the couch under Hue Jackson, then the wheels fell off and the team went to the toilet.  I think it's pretty telling of both the Raiders and Bengals that he had two of his best ever seasons (albeit one shortened by another knee) well into his thirties with nerve damage in his throwing shoulder and bum knees in Arizona under Arians.  What's that say about the other two organizations?  

I guess we just have differing viewpoints on this subject ol buddy, and there's nothing wrong with that. :andy:

[Hoofhearted]

(07-14-2017, 08:16 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: And NFL players wonder why teams don't want to significantly front-load a contract or still have incentives in contracts....so this kind of situation doesn't happen.

I don't really remember hearing Palmer say he wanted to retire, but just that he didn't want to be here any longer.  And, judging by his play, he didn't really want to be a Raider.  Again, Kurt Warner:  Man.  Carson Palmer:  Quitter.  

Yea, he technically retired then they traded him to Raiders for a first and a second, which they got Dre and Gio for.

But without hijacking this thread, calling Carson a quitter is pretty much sour grapes. Millions and millions of people don't like where they work at and end up leaving. Are they quitters because they didn't like where they work? I don't think so. They just know what they want.

And we got a kings ransom back for him, so I am happy it worked out for both sides. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-14-2017, 10:49 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yea, he technically retired then they traded him to Raiders for a first and a second, which they got Dre and Gio for.

But without hijacking this thread, calling Carson a quitter is pretty much sour grapes. Millions and millions of people don't like where they work at and end up leaving. Are they quitters because they didn't like where they work? I don't think so. They just know what they want.

And we got a kings ransom back for him, so I am happy it worked out for both sides. 

I'm happy with the results as well, and people can call it sour grapes, but I feel that taking the money he did and quitting was shitty to his teammates and the organization that drafted him.

[kevin]

Like many sports publications, I downgrade the Bengals going into 2017 due to their huge question marks on Offensive Line. The Bengals Ownership is hoping that letting Whitworth and Zeitler go in free agency saves money and they can still win. I agree with most NFL preseason predictions that say if the Bengals huge gamble at offensive line doesn't work, it is 3rd or last place in AFC North for Bengals. All the finesse players Bengals drafted won't help Bengals one bit if no blocking. Bengals didn't address O Line in free agency much and really didn't address it in 2017 Draft.

I always down grade Bengals on MIKE BROWN....Since Paul Brown died, not one play-off win.....The Mike Brown Era : Before Marvin Lewis, no play-offs and often worst team in NFL if not worst team in all sports. ...After Marvin Lewis, In play-offs 7 out of 15 seasons. So at least Marvin Lewis has had the team more competitive than Sam Wyche, Dave Shula, Bruce Coslett or Dick LeBeau under Mike Brown. Lewis has only had a couple 4 win seasons in the huge rebuilding of the worst team in sports, where as all Wyche, Shula, Coslett and Lebeau had was 4 win seasons under Mike Brown. ....So there are Two Eras in Bengals History much like history BC and AD....PB and MB....PB who won National Championship at Ohio State and Built and won National Championships with Cleveland Browns also built Cincinnati Bengals and as owner lived to see his Bengals in 2 Super Bowls......MB took the Super 1980's right into the worst team in sports 1990's and early 2000's. At least he did something right hiring Marvin Lewis who began to rebuild the worst team in any sport and has had them in play-offs 7 out of 15 years and around .500 in most of the non play-off years with only a 2 or 3 bad years. The Bengals at least being in the play-offs 6 out of the last 8 seasons is a miracle no other coach came close to under Mike Brown.

So the no play-off wins falls on Mike Brown since coaches have came and gone, but Mike Brown has been the owner and GM over all that time since. .....and going into 2017 the down grade is the offensive line, which again is Mike Brown. He didn't feel Max Montoya was worth paying. He didn't feel Zeitler was worth paying. Nothing has changed. If this team can not block in 2017, Blame Mike Brown for going cheap on Zeitler and Whitworth.

That said, I'm sure Coach Lewis and staff will be trying to coach up the all new Offensive Line. It won't be easy to get them ready in August for September with player union cut backs in practice time. If Coach Lewis and staff gets blocking and a .500 or better season out of this bunch, it will be a Great Coaching effort. I'm hoping Coach Lewis and staff can coach them up in August and during season, and make it 7 play-offs in last 9 years, which considering Mike Brown is just Great Coaching.

Now I have been a Bengal Fan since 1968. My Dad was the one on the Bengals Bus first due to Paul Brown and a Pro AFL Team in Cincinnati as we lived in Reds Country, so my dad was a fan before their first game. I became a fan more than my brother. He still watched Browns on Sunday on TV in basement not as good as new color one upstairs . I admit, the NFL Browns had a good team in 68 and 69. In 1970 both teams were in the NFL and same AFC Central. I rooted for Reds, Bengals as did my dad. I think my brother was still a Browns Fan at heart. My Brother was Vietnam draft age and joined the Air Force on his own so at least he had a choice. My dad moved to St Pete Florida in 1974. My Dad became a Tampa Bay Bucs and a Tampa Bay Bandit in the USFL Fan. My brother rooted for Browns, then Bucs and then when Joe Montana joined the Chefs claimed he was a life long Chiefs Fan. Neither of them followed the Bengals under Mike Brown. They both laughed at me still a Bengals Fan as the team stunk under Mike Brown. I am the only one in The Family that followed The Bengals from 1968 to now. I can say there were 2 era's. Paul Brown Alive of 60's, 70's and 80's up to 1990 Play-Off win season...and Paul Brown Dead and Mike Brown from 1991 to Now.....I am glad Coach Lewis came along, because in 2002 I had reached the point I could no longer watch Mike Browns sorry, lousy, awful team, but Coach Lewis did an amazing rebuilding job in spite of Mike Brown as a cheap, cheap owner of no scouts and no GM. I really liked when Ocho lousy attitude and Carson wanting traded were replaced by Green and Dalton. I got behind that 2011 team even it it took years to win. I love how these guys went to 5 straight play-offs. I know some of you don't, but I could care less about what some of you think...5 straight play-offs for this Cincinnati franchise is just amazing. I would love to see the team bounce back in 2017. I've been around long enough to know how bad our offensive line is going into this season, again, Thanks to Mike Brown....If the new line can come together and BLOCK....That is the question. That is THE KEY. ..If they can, the sky is the limit. If they can't, blame Mike Brown, not Coach Lewis. Mikey Boy is the one who never ever believes in paying Offensive Lineman, hence Max Montoya and others. Paul Brown had a great O Line in 1970's and 1980's...Mike Brown has never understood the need for the O Line as Paul Brown did.

Right now the Bengals are looking at a 4 win season with this Offensive Line thanks to Mike Brown Strikes Again....but I'm hoping Coach Lewis works some more miracles with this Mike Brown franchise and gets some blocking out of these guys. Only Blocking will improve our chances of winning, nothing else.

[OrangeLacroix]

IMO, Cincy pro sports have it too easy.

Nowhere would 22 and 26 consecutive years of accomplishing zero in the playoffs be tolerated.

The way the NFL and MLB are set up, teams luck into playoff success all the time, even once a decade.

The amount of ineptitude it takes to go 20+ years without a playoff win, for both Franchises, is truly amazing

The Bengals may very well hit 30 years, and the Reds are years away too.

Cincy Pro sports are a joke - The players melt in the spotlight and choke time after time after time.

Marvin Lewis is a huge piece of the tolerated ineptitude. He should been fired 5 years ago.

[*Nately120*]

(07-14-2017, 08:33 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yes, my personal feelings are involved.  Palmer took a proverbial dump on the one thing I love more than just about everything except my family after getting paid as one of the top 3 QBs in the league.  Never looked at his own piss-poor play, but pointed the finger at the franchise.  

That's all well and good, but you have to admit the one thing you love more than just about everything except your family is a business that is run by a guy who isn't trying to make said business as great as it can be.  Carson Palmer was an employee who didn't feel the organization was trying to win and he wanted to play for one that was.  So be it. The fact that you think Carson is a piss poor QB is also telling of your sour grapes mentality because he was top 3 at least once in Cincy and he's been top 3 once since he left. The guy has been an NFL starting QB for over a decade and you can ask the Browns/Texans/Jets etc if those sort of players grow on trees.

Only in pro sports do people like you and me take to heart the way a business is run.  I can't imagine us rooting for various sandwich shops and taking it personally when they do well, or don't do well, or hire and fire and lose employees.

[kevin]

(07-15-2017, 10:15 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: IMO, Cincy pro sports have it too easy.

Nowhere would 22 and 26 consecutive years of accomplishing zero in the playoffs be tolerated.

The way the NFL and MLB are set up, teams luck into playoff success all the time, even once a decade.

The amount of ineptitude it takes to go  20+ years without a playoff win, for both Franchises,  is truly amazing

The Bengals may very well hit 30 years, and the Reds are years away too.

Cincy Pro sports are a joke - The players melt in the spotlight and choke time after time after time.

Marvin Lewis is a huge piece of the tolerated ineptitude.   He should been fired 5 years ago.

Coach Lewis has had Bengals in play-offs 6 of the last 8 years.....Considering how awful Mike Brown is as a very cheap owner and GM of almost no scouts and had no idea how to run the team after THE GREAT PAUL BROWN died....See, the real problem is Mike Brown.  Look at where The Bengals were with Paul Brown alive in 1990. Then look at how the non football lawyer, I repeat lawyer, Mike Brown ruined this franchise. ...I think the rebuilding job Coach Lewis has done from 2003 on and having a Mike Brown team even in the play-offs this much is Great Coaching.  Mike Brown Sux's

How bad were the Bengals in 2002 before Lewis hired in 2003 ? People at work with tickets couldn't sell them. They said people at stadium couldn't give their tickets away, and certainly not sell or scalp them...People at work no longer wanting to go, tried to give me free Bengals tickets and parking pass but I refused....In 2002 I watched Bengals in bed, often going to sleep. A game at Tennessee and a game with Jets were two of the most boring NFL games ever played in the history of NFL. No way I was driving to Cincinnati to watch the Mike Brown suxs 2002 Bengals. My word, City Council and lawyers filed a law suit against Mike Brown over new stadium and lousy team not worth the tax payer money....People forget how god awful bad it was before Coach Lewis turned this franchise around, but Mike Brown is still cheap as owner and GM and almost no scouts. Mike Brown sux's. ..I liked Paul Brown, not Mike Brown.

[OrangeLacroix]

(07-15-2017, 10:58 AM)Nately120 Wrote: That's all well and good, but you have to admit the one thing you love more than just about everything except your family is a business that is run by a guy who isn't trying to make said business as great as it can be.  Carson Palmer was an employee who didn't feel the organization was trying to win and he wanted to play for one that was.  So be it.  The fact that you think Carson is a piss poor QB is also telling of your sour grapes mentality because he was top 3 at least once in Cincy and he's been top 3 once since he left.  The guy has been an NFL starting QB for over a decade and you can ask the Browns/Texans/Jets etc if those sort of players grow on trees.  

Only in pro sports do people like you and me take to heart the way a business is run.  I can't imagine us rooting for various sandwich shops and taking it personally when they do well, or don't do well, or hire and fire and lose employees.

Sandwich shops do not represent an entire City

There are not only 32 sandwich shops in the world

Sandwich shops are not put on network TV for 20 hours per week, in primetime. 

Sandwich shops are not involved in a 39.6 billion dollar TV deal

And, TaxPayers do not pay for the Sandwich shops


What a horrible example 

[Pat5775]

(07-14-2017, 10:49 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yea, he technically retired then they traded him to Raiders for a first and a second, which they got Dre and Gio for.

But without hijacking this thread, calling Carson a quitter is pretty much sour grapes. Millions and millions of people don't like where they work at and end up leaving. Are they quitters because they didn't like where they work? I don't think so. They just know what they want.

And we got a kings ransom back for him, so I am happy it worked out for both sides. 

Good point. I've never blamed Carson for wanting out, and I never will. 9/10 times I'd be in the the "Carson is a quitter" club. But he played for Mike Brown's Bengals. And with the Bengals, it's just different.

So many people seem to be under the impression that Carson is the only one to demand a trade from this organization. He's not. He's one of several. He's just the only one who stuck to his guns when he made his "trade me or I retire" demand. If anything, people should be upset with the organization for making yet another player want out, this time a franchise QB. 

The man walked away with tens of millions of $$$ coming his way in the next few years. Does anyone think that was easy? Imagine how bad things were in this organization that the face of the franchise completely lost faith in them. 

[*Nately120*]

(07-15-2017, 11:04 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: Sandwich shops do not represent an entire City

There are not only 32 sandwich shops in the world

Sandwich shops are not put on network TV for 20 hours per week, in primetime. 

Sandwich shops are not involved in a 39.6 billion dollar TV deal

And, TaxPayers do not pay for the Sandwich shops


What a horrible example 

Look, I realize the NFL is a monopolistic oligopoly with revenue sharing, salary caps, and other things that make it different than a sandwich shop.  The point is we are rooting for a business.  People inherit and run business as they see fit, not as their employees do, not as their patrons/fans etc. do.

And isn't it a little cruel/presumptuous of you to say that a crappy football team represents the entire city?  Oof.

(07-15-2017, 11:11 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Good point. I've never blamed Carson for wanting out, and I never will. 9/10 times I'd be in the the "Carson is a quitter" club. But he played for Mike Brown's Bengals. And with the Bengals, it's just different.

So many people seem to be under the impression that Carson is the only one to demand a trade from this organization. He's not. He's one of several. He's just the only one who stuck to his guns when he made his "trade me or I retire" demand. If anything, people should be upset with the organization for making yet another player want out, this time a franchise QB. 

The man walked away with tens of millions of $$$ coming his way in the next few years. Does anyone think that was easy? Imagine how bad things were in this organization that the face of the franchise completely lost faith in them. 

Yeah, I can see how when it happened and when he was on the 4-12 Raiders it seemed like he made a big mistake...but here we are 6 years later still complaining about Mike and Marvin and he isn't.  Maybe we should just admit that he is a quitter but he quit on 2 guys we are still complaining about.  

[*bfine32*]

(07-13-2017, 05:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Carson Palmer made a business decision which prolonged his career and got him closer to the SB than Mike Brown has been (not a huge accomplishment, granted).  You are putting way too much of your own feelings into this, but to each his own.  It's quite telling that Dalton has the chance to be the first franchise QB Mike Brown has ever had that doesn't end up demanding a trade.

Carson did not make a business decision; he made a personal one. No way was his objective to get closer to the Super Bowl when he left here for Oakland. As to the prolonging the career stance that too as incorrect; as he was sacked 1 out of every 20.1 passing attempts in Cincy while being sacked 1 out of every 17.9 attempts since he left (1-16.7 as a Cardinal). Seems both sides might be putting their own feelings in the situation.

As to the demanding a trade part. List the other career QBs drafted during the MB era that have demanded a trade.....

[McC]

(07-15-2017, 12:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Carson did not make a business decision; he made a personal one. No way was his objective to get closer to the Super Bowl when he left here for Oakland. As to the prolonging the career stance that too as incorrect; as he was sacked 1 out of every 20.1 passing attempts in Cincy while being sacked 1 out of every 17.9 attempts since he left (1-16.7 as a Cardinal). Seems both sides might be putting their own feelings in the situation.

As to the demanding a trade part. List the other career QBs drafted during the MB era that have demanded a trade.....

Boomer.

[*Nately120*]

(07-15-2017, 12:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Carson did not make a business decision; he made a personal one. No way was his objective to get closer to the Super Bowl when he left here for Oakland. As to the prolonging the career stance that too as incorrect; as he was sacked 1 out of every 20.1 passing attempts in Cincy while being sacked 1 out of every 17.9 attempts since he left (1-16.7 as a Cardinal). Seems both sides might be putting their own feelings in the situation.

As to the demanding a trade part. List the other career QBs drafted during the MB era that have demanded a trade.....

You have a point, because he said something to the tune of he felt like his career was going to be shortened if he didn't hit the road.  The thing is, other franchises like the Raiders, or Cardinals aren't afraid to hire GMs or fire coaches or do things that show the organization isn't just content with spinning its wheels and just hoping to win.  Even the Browns show some initiative that could possibly convince people they are giving winning an actual shot.

The Raiders were one Tebow miracle away from hosting the Ravens in the playoffs in 2011 and Carson had won some legit games off the couch that year (going into San Diego in primetime and winning to take the division lead from them, was one) so it's not like they were god awful until they fired Hue and went into full rebuild mode.  And the Cardinals went 13-3 (better regular season record than the Bengals have ever achieved) and made it to the NFC Championship game due in no small part because they had a GM and HC who weren't company yes-men.  I'm not saying Carson is a superstar and Dalton isn't, but it's not like Carson is just out there playing for a mere paycheck.  He's been as semi-relevant as the Bengals have been without him.

The Bengals and Carson are both better off for having parted ways.  Can't we all think of that one friend we have who is riding out a miserable marriage where everyone would benefit from a glorious divorce?  

Side note, how long was Carson under contact for?  If he played it out and then tested free agency I wonder which QB's we would have had as options or picked up to replace him.