Camp Battles

[*Synric*]

Everyone knows that Hill and Mixon are going to competing for snaps this season. Here are a couple other battles that I THINK will be happening during camp.

John Ross vs Tyler Boyd - First I have nothing against Boyd he is a good slot guy with good hands, but a guy like John Ross is gonna be hard to keep off the field. I feel Boyd is gonna have problems seeing the field this season because Lafell is a physical guy that is a good blocker not in just the run game but on those rubs and screens. Between Green, Lafell, and Ross the Bengals have the opportunity to move everyone into different spots and create mismatches. In 4 receiver sets Boyd has to beat out Tyler Eifert as the 4th receiver.

Second one is a little more of a stretch but its something to watch when the preseason starts.

Nick Vigil vs Carl Lawson. Lawson will get his share of snaps at SAM linebacker in the preseason. It'll be the first time hes ever played as a LB in a 2 gap system (as far as we know lol), but he could be alot more than just a situational passrusher. Can he catch on quickly to become a Dont'a Hightower? He could be a terror against the run while adequate in coverage, but also on the field to be able to recognize and rush the passer on play action and tear through linemen to get to RBs on screens. He has alot to learn but also has alot of talent. Vigil will be in his second year but hes also moving to a new position. He will know the playbook but he played if not all damn near all his snaps as the MIKE and WILL last season.

[sandwedge]

I disagree about Boyd. He will see a lot of playing time and will be our slot receiver. Personally I thought he played very well his rookie season and will only get better. Ross will get his chance outside. LaFelle, who I like, will give up playing time to Ross as the season progress is my guess. Not saying Ross will never line up in the slot, but I think his roll for now is outside.
As for your second scenario, I don't know a lot about Minter but if Lawson catches on quickly, possibly you could Vigil slide to Mike. I do think Minter is better than Mauluga, but by how much I know idea.
The main camp battle I am interested is with our DBs. Especially who will be our slot cover CB? Possibly even if Jackson can push Jones out of his starting position.... Other than that the back ups at WR should be interesting to watch unfold.

I think the biggest battle will be who wins our kicker battle!!

[*Synric*]

(07-19-2017, 11:39 AM)sandwedge Wrote: I disagree about Boyd. He will see a lot of playing time and will be our slot receiver. Personally I thought he played very well his rookie season and will only get better. Ross will get his chance outside. LaFelle, who I like, will give up playing time to Ross as the season progress is my guess. Not saying Ross will never line up in the slot, but I think his roll for now is outside.
As for your second scenario, I don't know a lot about Minter but if Lawson catches on quickly, possibly you could Vigil slide to Mike.  I do think Minter is better than Mauluga, but by how much I know idea.
The main camp battle I am interested is with our DBs. Especially who will be our slot cover CB? Possibly even if Jackson can push Jones out of his starting position.... Other than that the back ups at WR should be interesting to watch unfold.

I think the biggest battle will be who wins our kicker battle!!

What I'm getting at with Green, Ross, and Lafell is there is no set spots. One play Green/Lafell are outside and Ross in the slot. The next play Ross/LaFell are ouside and AJ Green is in the slot to create mismatches. As for Lawson we could see them throw in some Bill Belicheat style big Nickel defense.


The Defensive backs are interesting and with Jones likely going to miss a couple games due to suspension Jackson had a chance to come in and steal a spot early.


With Margus Hunt gone Will Clarke could be getting a different roll on defense backing up the strongsidr instead of the weakside and getting Hunts snaps inside as a pass rusher.

[Sled21]

We won't know until we see which players have season ending injuries in training camp..... And I doubt Jones is even going to get suspended now.....

[Benton]

(07-19-2017, 12:29 PM)Synric Wrote: What I'm getting at with Green, Ross, and Lafell is there is no set spots. One play Green/Lafell are outside and Ross in the slot. The next play Ross/LaFell are ouside and AJ Green is in the slot to create mismatches. 

I'd be really surprised to see this happen on an every play basis. Maybe once a series plug Green into slot or Boyd outside, sure, I can't see them doing it every down or even every other. Those kinds of change up are designed to catch defenses off guard. If you're shuffling every player on every play, you aren't doing anything unexpected.

Like lining a lineman up at FB. You can catch a defense off guard lining him up and actually passing him the ball or handing it off, but if you line him up every play at FB, they're going to just treat him like a FB. A really bad, slow FB that you don't want to pass or run.


I agree with Mr. Wedge. Most likely Boyd will play slot, Lafell will be outside and Ross will see his time coming in for them and Green here and there. If he plays at game speed, then they'll start giving him more of Lafell's playing time; if he isn't getting it, he'll just stay in the rotation. Boyd, Lafell, Green... nobody is going to play every down of every game. Whether they need a break or get injured, they're going to need someone to step in... and, for now, that'll be Ross.

[*Synric*]

(07-19-2017, 03:30 PM)Benton Wrote: I'd be really surprised to see this happen on an every play basis. Maybe once a series plug Green into slot or Boyd outside, sure, I can't see them doing it every down or even every other. Those kinds of change up are designed to catch defenses off guard. If you're shuffling every player on every play, you aren't doing anything unexpected.

Like lining a lineman up at FB. You can catch a defense off guard lining him up and actually passing him the ball or handing it off, but if you line him up every play at FB, they're going to just treat him like a FB. A really bad, slow FB that you don't want to pass or run.


I agree with Mr. Wedge. Most likely Boyd will play slot, Lafell will be outside and Ross will see his time coming in for them and Green here and there. If he plays at game speed, then they'll start giving him more of Lafell's playing time; if he isn't getting it, he'll just stay in the rotation. Boyd, Lafell, Green... nobody is going to play every down of every game. Whether they need a break or get injured, they're going to need someone to step in... and, for now, that'll be Ross.

You took the one play next play a little literally. I agree I don't see it happening every play, but having all 3 on the field allows them to do so at any time. I think it will be hard to take Ross off the field. He will keep defenses honest so they can't cheat up in short and intermediate routes like they did last season. They did not draft Ross at 9 because they thought he would be a gimmick player and take 10 snaps a game.

[Gohards]

I'm very interested in Cody Core. I thought that he always looked like he had a lot of promise.

[*bfine32*]

Camp Battles:

Starting RB

#2 WR

#2 (OK we know it will be #1) TE

C

RDE

RDT

MLB

Starting CBs

SS

[J24]

3 biggest battles
1.) Nickle DT- underrated position and will get 60% of the snaps- Deshawn Williams vs Wallace Gilberry vs Marcus Hardison.
2.) Nickle LB- again will get majority of snaps- Virgil vs Rey vs frjdaelm vs Shawn Williams
3.) Right guard- starter- Smith vs westerman

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Camp battles always make a team better. Remember the almost-battle between Andy Dalton and AJ McCarron two summers ago? There's no doubt AJ made Andy a better quarterback and 2015 was an amazing year for the Bengals.

My camp battle du jour for 2017 will involve Russell Bodine and JJ Dielman for the starting center position. Now being next to Andre Smith at right guard will make most any center better but I give JJ better than even odds at earning the starting position. If he doesn't, this will push Russell into a level of play he hasn't been able to reach yet.

[Whatever]

(07-19-2017, 03:30 PM)Benton Wrote: I'd be really surprised to see this happen on an every play basis. Maybe once a series plug Green into slot or Boyd outside, sure, I can't see them doing it every down or even every other. Those kinds of change up are designed to catch defenses off guard. If you're shuffling every player on every play, you aren't doing anything unexpected.

Like lining a lineman up at FB. You can catch a defense off guard lining him up and actually passing him the ball or handing it off, but if you line him up every play at FB, they're going to just treat him like a FB. A really bad, slow FB that you don't want to pass or run.


I agree with Mr. Wedge. Most likely Boyd will play slot, Lafell will be outside and Ross will see his time coming in for them and Green here and there. If he plays at game speed, then they'll start giving him more of Lafell's playing time; if he isn't getting it, he'll just stay in the rotation. Boyd, Lafell, Green... nobody is going to play every down of every game. Whether they need a break or get injured, they're going to need someone to step in... and, for now, that'll be Ross.

I disagree.  Ross simply changes the way the opposing defense plays with his deep speed.  LaFell was much more productive and is a better blocker than Boyd.  Boyd has proven to be a decent possession receiver, but that's it.  The fact that teams don't have to respect Boyd downfield makes it easier for teams to double AJ and put extra men in the box against the run.

At the start of the year, I see AJ and LaFell as the starters with Ross the primary #3.  Boyd will get snaps in relief to keep the top 3 fresh.  Ross will probably move into the #2 job as the season goes on.  Boyd might outplay LaFell for the #3 spot, or might lose snaps to Core and or Malone.  With the additions at the skill positions in the draft, it's obvious that the Bengals feel they need more speed out there on offense, and Boyd just hasn't displayed the tools to threaten anyone.

[jj22]

I think Boyd will be Daltons 3rd down target. Look for Lafell in early downs, Boyd on 3rd (and 4th down if needed). He's clutch and has Daltons trust

I'm interested in the back up Left and Right tackle battle. I'm wiling to wait and see on Big Ced (do we have a choice), but what happens if he goes down? I don't want to see them move Fisher again. Do they have a choice is what I'm interested in seeing.

[coachmcneil71]

(07-19-2017, 11:07 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think Boyd will be Daltons 3rd down target. Look for Lafell in early downs, Boyd on 3rd (and 4th down if needed). He's clutch and has Daltons trust

I'm interested in the back up  Left and Right tackle battle. I'm wiling to wait and see on Big Ced (do we have a choice), but what happens if he goes down? I don't want to see them move  Fisher again. Do they have a choice is what I'm interested in seeing.

Agree about Boyd. I think some may be undervaluing his skill set & offensive flexibility.

[Sled21]

You can't sleep on Malone either.....

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-19-2017, 11:17 AM)Synric Wrote: Everyone knows that Hill and Mixon are going to competing for snaps this season. Here are a couple other battles that I THINK will be happening during camp.

John Ross vs Tyler Boyd - First I have nothing against Boyd he is a good slot guy with good hands, but a guy like John Ross is gonna be hard to keep off the field. I feel Boyd is gonna have problems seeing the field this season because Lafell is a physical guy that is a good blocker not in just the run game but on those rubs and screens. Between Green, Lafell, and Ross the Bengals have the opportunity to move everyone into different spots and create mismatches. In 4 receiver sets Boyd has to beat out Tyler Eifert as the 4th receiver.

Second one is a little more of a stretch but its something to watch when the preseason starts.

Nick Vigil vs Carl Lawson. Lawson will get his share of snaps at SAM linebacker in the preseason. It'll be the first time hes ever played as a LB in a 2 gap system (as far as we know lol), but he could be alot more than just a situational passrusher. Can he catch on quickly to become a Dont'a Hightower? He could be a terror against the run while adequate in coverage, but also on the field to be able to recognize and rush the passer on play action and tear through linemen to get to RBs on screens. He has alot to learn but also has alot of talent. Vigil will be in his second year but hes also moving to a new position. He will know the playbook but he played if not all damn near all his snaps as the MIKE and WILL last season.

I think Ross will likely focus on the X spot, previously held by LaFell, on a rotational basis with Cody Core.  He can go in motion for a number of slants and crossing routes as well.  LaFell seems like the odd man out, but I think he will likely rotate in the slot with Boyd.  If Boyd doesn't start hot, Lafell will earn more and more snaps.  I think they really like Boyd, but he has to be all-in every snap.  He disappeared at times last season.

I think it will be interesting to see Vigil and Lawson.  Lawson could start at base and become a pass rushing end on passing downs when they go to nickel, whereas I don't see Vigil lining up at end at all...he will likely be the starting nickel backer.  I am excited about Lawson, almost as much as Willis, but I feel he will get the typical "ease in to it" rookie playing time early on, while Vigil will be out there a great deal.  

I think Uzomah might pass Kroft on the depth chart.  He has worked a great deal on his blocking and appears to be a significantly better receiver.  Kroft has been a huge disappointment thus far, and I hope he proves me wrong this year when he is 100% healthy.  The 2 TE and 2 WR with single back formation that goes:  Uzomah and Eifert, Ross and Green, with Mixon or Gio in the backfield has me salivating.   I'm sure after working so much with Hill, Lafell (who is a solid guy but doesn't get much separation), no healthy TEs to speak of, and a rookie 6th rounder in Core (who showed in week 17 what he is capable of), that Dalton is pretty excited as well. 

Other big battles for snaps:  MJ and Willis.  MJ has not had the impact needed by a RDE, although he is at least solid against the run.  The improved LB corps should only make the run defense better.  I can't wait to see Willis and Lawson off the edge.  With Dunlap on one side, Geno and Billings in the middle, the RDE should have some real opportunities.  I also hope Willis gets to spell Dunlap from time to time to keep him fresh....Willis played almost his entire senior season at LDE and generated some serious numbers from that side.  

Fej vs. Williams.  Marv appears pretty high on my guy Fej.  It could be an attempt to get more concentration and film study out of Williams, but Fej is getting some snaps at nickel backer and in very limited action last year, showed he can make an impact.  Derron Smith feels like the forgotten man, and he appears to me to be a better "center fielder" than Williams.  Maybe not as physicial, but a ball-hawk.  Regardless, with these four, I feel that safety might be our deepest position group next to WR.  

Andre Smith vs. Alex Redmond and Christian Westerman.  If Andre shows up fat and out of shape, pulls a hammy the first time he bends over, I think he will become a backup pretty quickly.  The Bengals are very high on both of these guys and that should push Andre to come in at his best.  

[jeremydc]

I don't see any of the defensive rookies having significant snaps barring injuries. However, if injuries do occur, they can step in. The drop off would be at worst minimal.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-19-2017, 06:15 PM)Gohards Wrote: I'm very interested in Cody Core. I thought that he always looked like he had a lot of promise.

Agreed.  One thing I heard from the Bengals was that a minor reservation in drafting Ross was that it would limit Core's opportunities, because they think very highly of him.  He has great size and speed, and is really taking to coaching on his release and his route-running.  

I think he will provide great depth and when Ross gets a series off,  Core will be exploding off the line and some exhausted DBs will not enjoy covering/tackling him.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-19-2017, 07:39 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Camp battles always make a team better.  Remember the almost-battle between Andy Dalton and AJ McCarron two summers ago?  There's no doubt AJ made Andy a better quarterback and 2015 was an amazing year for the Bengals.

My camp battle du jour for 2017 will involve Russell Bodine and JJ Dielman for the starting center position.  Now being next to Andre Smith at right guard will make most any center better but I give JJ better than even odds at earning the starting position.  If he doesn't, this will push Russell into a level of play he hasn't been able to reach yet.

I hadn't really thought much about Dielman pushing Bodine, but it does make a lot of sense.  Competition improves the breed at every position, and Dielman is supposed to be 100% healthy.  There have been a number of late round draft picks that ended up being quality starters in the NFL on the offensive line.  I hope JJ can show some of what the Bengals believe he can be.  Love that he can supposedly play any position on the line.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-20-2017, 09:42 AM)jeremydc Wrote: I don't see any of the defensive rookies having significant snaps barring injuries. However, if injuries do occur, they can step in. The drop off would be at worst minimal.

I don't understand why you would draft Willis and Lawson in the 3rd and 4th round to sit on the bench.  It makes no sense to trot Dunlap and MJ (especially MJ) out there for 97% of the snaps.  I think Willis and Lawson will get significant snaps this season and will push the starters to up their game.  Right now, they are both stronger and faster than the starters. Especially Willis.

[Whatever]

(07-19-2017, 11:07 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think Boyd will be Daltons 3rd down target. Look for Lafell in early downs, Boyd on 3rd (and 4th down if needed). He's clutch and has Daltons trust

I'm interested in the back up  Left and Right tackle battle. I'm wiling to wait and see on Big Ced (do we have a choice), but what happens if he goes down? I don't want to see them move  Fisher again. Do they have a choice is what I'm interested in seeing.

How is Boyd clutch?  He caught 4 passes for 25 yards and one first down in the 4th quarter within 7 last year.  His red zone stats are abysmal.  His production sharply declines as the game goes along.  He's a guy that's folded under pressure so far instead of stepping up.