O line struggeling

[Hoofhearted]

(08-09-2017, 11:10 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's almost as if Management accepts mediocrity isn't it?

Just so we don't go back to the 3-13 90's.

That's what their actions have told us - not their mouth tho. 

[jj22]

Regardless of the mistake with Whit/Z they should have never went into this year with no backup at LT. If anything for Ced's injury history. Just careless the risk/gamble they are taking with Dalton in his prime.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-09-2017, 11:03 AM)Whatever Wrote: From a coaching staff perspective, I would have canned Marvin and Company after the SD loss, but that's a whole different can of worms.

Absolutely......

[THE PISTONS]

(08-09-2017, 11:37 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: First it was an aging LT, now it's because his play dropped off? Even though Whitworth allowed one sack after Week 5 last season. Over a two-year stretch, he allowed 38 total pressures, two fewer than what Greg Robinson -- the former No. 2 overall pick who will now move to the right side -- allowed in 2016 alone. And all throughout, Whitworth has been crazy durable, starting 126 of the Bengals' 128 games over the last eight years, including all 48 since 2014.


I totally get the fact he was a fan favorite, hence why the disgruntlement from the fans. You don't treat guys like Whit this way. 

The funny thing is had we kept him on a 1 or 2 year deal...the same people that are talking about how his play dropped off would be talking about how management was going all in and wanting to win.

When you don't win a single playoff game in 25 years I suppose fans have to rationalize things to keep following this team. It's an ego investment. Nobody wants to think that the team they follow is inept. So they shift the metrics of success - 5 playoff appearances in a row!

[THE PISTONS]

(08-09-2017, 11:50 AM)jj22 Wrote: Regardless of the mistake with Whit/Z they should have never went into this year with no backup at LT. If anything for Ced's injury history. Just careless the risk/gamble they are taking with Dalton in his prime.

And it's not like we're capped out. We have $18.6 million in cap space!

[Lawless_1]

(08-09-2017, 12:05 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The funny thing is had we kept him on a 1 or 2 year deal...the same people that are talking about how his play dropped off would be talking about how management was going all in and wanting to win.

When you don't win a single playoff game in 25 years I suppose fans have to rationalize things to keep following this team. It's an ego investment. Nobody wants to think that the team they follow is inept. So they shift the metrics of success - 5 playoff appearances in a row!

The o-line was bad last year. I saw no reason to spend that much to keep a bad o-line intact. Granted the line might be worse but come next year when we have to re-sign Burfict and maybe Eifert how bad would it be to not have the money thanks to blowing it on a bad o-line who's best player is in his twilight year?

[*ochocincos*]

(08-09-2017, 12:06 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And it's not like we're capped out. We have $18.6 million in cap space!

#ThoseExtensionsTho

[Whatever]

(08-09-2017, 09:28 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ask yourself if the Bengals are committing all resources possible to winning.

The Steelers lose players because they are at or over the cap...and they restructure deals to get guys.

The Bengals lose guys when they have lots of cap space...and tell fans it's so they can re-sign future free agents. Until those free agents want market value...then they let them walk.

Even with a Top 5 roster and playoff success in their sites...they didn't bring that free agent or two in to put us over the top.

Is the goal to have cap space every year or is it to win a Super Bowl?

The Steelers ended 2016 $6.2 mil under the cap.  The Bengals were $5.1 mil under.  Now, the Steelers have had some years where they were only $2-3 mil under, but we're talking an average difference pet year equivalent to one Andre Smith/LaFell/Minter signing.  The Steelers have also hurt themselves by not allowing themselves enough cap room to get a long term deal done with Bell, who is playing FT chicken with them this offseason, and lost Timmons, Jarvis Jones, and Wheaton this offseason.

[Whatever]

(08-09-2017, 09:34 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So basically Whitworth left and you're going to spin it like he wasn't worth signing from a performance standpoint?

In another post somebody is telling me that the Bengals offered him the same  money as the Rams and he chose to leave.

Which is it?

The bottom line is one of Whitworth or Zeitler should have been franchise tagged. Personally I would have kept Zeitler. They could have still signed Smith then to play Tackle and had a decent line.

Pretty much every player on the roster has shxt the bed come playoff time, from Dalton to Green to Whit and Z.  To say those guys have no responsibility for that is silly.

Whit was still a good player last year, no doubt, but his time is about up.  Again, I would've liked to keep him, but I would not jeopardize getting deals done with Eifert and Burfict to do so.  We saw last year just how important Eifert is to this offense putting points on the board.  While I think he crosses the line way too much, the D plays better with a healthy, in shape Burfict flying around.  Those guys are in their primes and have a lot of football left.  Whit has one, maybe two years left.

[Whatever]

(08-09-2017, 09:26 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We have $17-18 million cap space and Smith costed what $3 million a year? That's $21 million.

Tag Zeitler for $13 million and we'd still have $8 million cap space now...

Or keep rationalizing the cheap spending strategy of a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 25+ year...

Nobody with any brains is paying $13.8 mil for a good, but not great, RG.  

You tag Z, and you still need to sign a T for depth(which Andre is doing double duty as T depth).  That puts you down to $4-5 mil, which isn't enough to get an extension done with Eifert or Burfict, so you go into next year with one tag and all three as FA, and probably lose 2 of them.  Instead, you let Z walk this year, get a long term deal done with one of the others with the money you saved this year, then tag the other guy next year and hopefully get a long term deal done.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-09-2017, 12:22 PM)Lawless_1 Wrote: The o-line was bad last year. I saw no reason to spend that much to keep a bad o-line intact. Granted the line might be worse but come next year when we have to re-sign Burfict and maybe Eifert how bad would it be to not have the money thanks to blowing it on a bad o-line who's best player is in his twilight year?

Just because the line was bad doesn't mean that you improve it by letting your 2 best players go.

Plus...the cap is supposed to rise a lot next year too. We could have franchise tagged Zeitler AND still kept Burfict and Eifert. It wasn't an either/or scenario.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-09-2017, 12:06 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And it's not like we're capped out. We have $18.6 million in cap space!

As others said we have to extend Burfict and Eifert.

I would of tagged Whit if it was me but Whit wanted a multiple year deal.

Sucks but we just have to hold out hope Og plays decent.

We should of brought in another LT in FA though as a backup plan tho even if Landon Lechler has looked decent shouldn't
of counted on it. In the end we are where we are and that is based on hope. Love seeing Willie Anderson working with Og
and Fisher.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-09-2017, 12:29 PM)Whatever Wrote: The Steelers ended 2016 $6.2 mil under the cap.  The Bengals were $5.1 mil under.  Now, the Steelers have had some years where they were only $2-3 mil under, but we're talking an average difference pet year equivalent to one Andre Smith/LaFell/Minter signing.  The Steelers have also hurt themselves by not allowing themselves enough cap room to get a long term deal done with Bell, who is playing FT chicken with them this offseason, and lost Timmons, Jarvis Jones, and Wheaton this offseason.

The Steelers also have 6 Super Bowl wins. The Bengals have 5 playoff wins in their entire franchise history.

Fans can talk about how they manage the cap poorly and can't come to terms with guys like Bell. But...they win Super Bowls. Jones and Wheaton weren't key players. Timmons was getting slow.

[Whatever]

(08-09-2017, 09:37 AM)Wyche Wrote: ......but he's a HUGE part of it.  When you're constantly getting beat at the point of attack with NTs in your backfield nearly as soon as the back gets the ball.....you've got big problems against quality defenses.  Also, we have no idea how well he calls the blocking assignments at the LOS.  If he sucks as badly at that as he does blocking and snapping....well.....you know......

He's been an issue, no doubt.  However, I have to assume he's good at making the line calls and adjustments.  If he wasn't, we'd see more assignment errors out of the others.  I just look at him as the Dhani Jones of the OL.  Mediocre individual player, but gets the other pieces in the right place.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-09-2017, 01:18 PM)Whatever Wrote: He's been an issue, no doubt.  However, I have to assume he's good at making the line calls and adjustments.  If he wasn't, we'd see more assignment errors out of the others.  I just look at him as the Dhani Jones of the OL.  Mediocre individual player, but gets the other pieces in the right place.

You don't know that he's making brilliant calls out there. We do know that he grades out poorly by PFF.

Dhani Jones started on other teams in the NFL. I doubt that Bodine would. He's a backup at best on most teams and maybe even out of the league like Maualuga.

[Socal Bengals fan]

I can't believe people defend Bengals management. We average one playoff win a decade in the 50 year history. Think about that for a second . It's safe to say let's try a different strategy this ones not working

[THE PISTONS]

(08-09-2017, 01:35 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: I can't believe people defend Bengals management. We average one playoff win a decade in the 50 year history.  Think about that for a second  .  It's safe to say let's try a different strategy this ones not working

Yeah...but we manage our cap cleaner than the Steelers.

WHO'S REALLY the WINNERS???

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-09-2017, 01:18 PM)Whatever Wrote: He's been an issue, no doubt.  However, I have to assume he's good at making the line calls and adjustments.  If he wasn't, we'd see more assignment errors out of the others.  I just look at him as the Dhani Jones of the OL.  Mediocre individual player, but gets the other pieces in the right place.

(08-09-2017, 01:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You don't know that he's making brilliant calls out there. We do know that he grades out poorly by PFF.

Dhani Jones started on other teams in the NFL. I doubt that Bodine would. He's a backup at best on most teams and maybe even out of the league like Maualuga.

Yeah, I mean, part of the problem with others on the line could be Bodine's error, or it could be the other way around.  That's why I said in the quoted text "we have no idea"....

[*ochocincos*]

(08-09-2017, 01:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You don't know that he's making brilliant calls out there. We do know that he grades out poorly by PFF.

Dhani Jones started on other teams in the NFL. I doubt that Bodine would. He's a backup at best on most teams and maybe even out of the league like Maualuga.

I would be fine with Bodine being a backup. He's a decent backup option. But with the current roster, I don't think there's a good option to start over him. Westerman or TJ Johnson might be better than Bodine, but I feel at this point it's more than a hope rather than a certainty.

If he flounders again this year, I really want to see a center with experience at that position in college drafted by the Bengals within the first three rounds. Given the Bengals' lack of priority for investing a first round draft pick at the position, I'll hope for someone like Frank Ragnow in the second or third round (currently where projected according to CBS Sports).
https://withthefirstpick.com/2017/07/19/frank-ragnow-arkansas-2018-nfl-draft-scouting-report/
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-2018-prospect-profile-arkansas-frank-ragnow-leads-the-pack-at-center

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-09-2017, 02:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I would be fine with Bodine being a backup. He's a decent backup option. But with the current roster, I don't think there's a good option to start over him. Westerman or TJ Johnson might be better than Bodine, but I feel at this point it's more than a hope rather than a certainty.

If he flounders again this year, I really want to see a center with experience at that position in college drafted by the Bengals within the first three rounds. Given the Bengals' lack of priority for investing a first round draft pick at the position, I'll hope for someone like Frank Ragnow in the second or third round (currently where projected according to CBS Sports).
https://withthefirstpick.com/2017/07/19/frank-ragnow-arkansas-2018-nfl-draft-scouting-report/
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-2018-prospect-profile-arkansas-frank-ragnow-leads-the-pack-at-center

Nice options.....or......dare I say it.......a good FA C if one's available.