Cedric Ogbuehi took a step forward

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-13-2017, 04:32 PM)McC Wrote: It's a process and the process ain't over.  If he stops improving, then we got a problem.  If he keeps improving, his confidence will grow and so will his game.  Way too early to declare anything long range about him.

The bottom line is, on that night, the offense was able to make it work.  Yes, it will get tougher but the offense will be getting better too.

If we can run the ball well, that helps a lot.

Barring great physical change (see Leveon Bell) players don't really change this late in the process.
He's 25. Not 21. 

He's likely at this point just what he is. 

[McC]

(08-13-2017, 04:41 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Barring great physical change (see Leveon Bell) players don't really change this late in the process.
He's 25. Not 21. 

He's likely at this point just what he is. 

Are you kidding me?  Guys change a lot physically at that age.  Happens all the time.  You might even say often.

He's better than he was last year.  That alone suggests you might be jumping the gun.  People can improve if they put in the work.   That also happens all the time.  Couple blanket falsities you've stated here.  We'll see in the next three weeks.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-13-2017, 04:49 PM)McC Wrote: Are you kidding me?  Guys change a lot physically at that age.  Happens all the time.  You might even say often.

He's better than he was last year.  That alone suggests you might be jumping the gun.  People can improve if they put in the work.   That also happens all the time.  Couple blanket falsities you've stated here.  We'll see in the next three weeks.

You can't say, from half of a preseason game, that he's better when he shows the same issues from a technique stand point that lead to him being a problem last year.

No, they really don't. There's a vast difference between what you are assuming I mean and what I actually mean.
I highlighted Bell because Leveon lost a lot of weight and was able to drastically change his running style because of it. 



If it were so easy to fix these problems at age 25, why are there bad OL over the age of 25?

These are fundamental problems in his game. They won't magically disappear. 

If they do, great. But I haven't seen any sign of that yet. 

Players at age 25 are basically what they are. 
Unless they drastically change their physical nature like Bell or move to a system that just uses their talents better, like Reggie Nelson from JAX to CIN, they won't change much. 

He still opens his hips and fires wide in pass pro. 
His first step in the run game is also a bit suspect, but I'll have more on that when I have more time to watch him more closely. 

These were problems at TAMU. These were problems in his first 2 years. 
At some point, it might just be who he is. 

Conversely, look at Trey Hopkins who is finally getting his fair shot. 
In college, he displayed proper footwork and hand usage. He was able to move and seal defenders in the run game and sink his hips squarely and hold blocks. 
In the pros...he's doing the same thing. He just doesn't have a ton of hype over him. 

[*Synric*]

(08-13-2017, 05:38 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: You can't say, from half of a preseason game, that he's better when he shows the same issues from a technique stand point that lead to him being a problem last year.

No, they really don't. There's a vast difference between what you are assuming I mean and what I actually mean.
I highlighted Bell because Leveon lost a lot of weight and was able to drastically change his running style because of it. 



If it were so easy to fix these problems at age 25, why are there bad OL over the age of 25?

These are fundamental problems in his game. They won't magically disappear. 

If they do, great. But I haven't seen any sign of that yet. 

Players at age 25 are basically what they are. 
Unless they drastically change their physical nature like Bell or move to a system that just uses their talents better, like Reggie Nelson from JAX to CIN, they won't change much. 

He still opens his hips and fires wide in pass pro. 
His first step in the run game is also a bit suspect, but I'll have more on that when I have more time to watch him more closely. 

These were problems at TAMU. These were problems in his first 2 years. 
At some point, it might just be who he is. 

Conversely, look at Trey Hopkins who is finally getting his fair shot. 
In college, he displayed proper footwork and hand usage. He was able to move and seal defenders in the run game and sink his hips squarely and hold blocks. 
In the pros...he's doing the same thing. He just doesn't have a ton of hype over him. 

So your saying even though his problem is technique his real problem is physically? He would have to dramaticly change physically to fix his mechanics? 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-13-2017, 05:54 PM)Synric Wrote: So your saying even though his problem is technique his real problem is physically? He would have to dramaticly change physically to fix his mechanics? 

No?

Im saying he's not going to change who he is as a player without great physically change. 
He's still soft and not a powerful player. To change that, he would have to change physically.
He's not going to magically become a physical player overnight. 

He's also riddled with technique flaws. 

[*Synric*]

(08-13-2017, 06:37 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: No?

Im saying he's not going to change who he is as a player without great physically change. 
He's still soft and not a powerful player. To change that, he would have to change physically.
He's not going to magically become a physical player overnight. 

He's also riddled with technique flaws. 

Agreed he has alot to work on with his mechanics and he did open his hips to thr outside alot last year but I thought he looked drastically different when attacking in the run game. He was driving through on his blocks instead of just getting hands on and in the way like last season.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-13-2017, 06:42 PM)Synric Wrote: Agreed he has alot to work on with his mechanics and he did open his hips to thr outside alot last year but I thought he looked drastically different when attacking in the run game. He was driving through on his blocks instead of just getting hands on and in the way like last season.

He had a few nice plays but overall he still showed the same issues in the run game. 
He's got a very long way to go. He had 2 spectacularly bad plays vs the run that can be very costly in a real game. 

Other than his size and school, I never got the Cedric appeal. 

[Circleville Guy]

Was he matched up against someone fighting for a job or a vet going through the motions and just looking not to get hurt in a preseason game?

[*Synric*]

(08-13-2017, 06:46 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He had a few nice plays but overall he still showed the same issues in the run game. 
He's got a very long way to go. He had 2 spectacularly bad plays vs the run that can be very costly in a real game. 

Other than his size and school, I never got the Cedric appeal. 

Lol yea me either. I liked the tackle they just played against Donovan Smith.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-13-2017, 06:53 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Was he matched up against someone fighting for a job or a vet going through the motions and just looking not to get hurt in a preseason game?

He got a lot of reps, so both. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-13-2017, 06:54 PM)Synric Wrote: Lol yea me either. I liked the tackle they just played against Donovan Smith.

I wasn't particularly a fan of his either. 
But he's showing some real improvement. 

I still have to rewatch Fisher's game to see what we have there. 

[Circleville Guy]

(08-13-2017, 06:56 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He got a lot of reps, so both. 

What I was getting at is in a real game he will match up against established starters going all out. Game one is when I'll pay attention. I believe that he can help with his confidence in preseason and practice technique. Game one will tell us more on if he's gonna get pushed around or not.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-13-2017, 07:21 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: What I was getting at is in a real game he will match up against established starters going all out. Game one is when I'll pay attention. I believe that he can help with his confidence in preseason and practice technique. Game one will tell us more on if he's gonna get pushed around or not.

Even though Preseason games are just "glorified practice", do not forget the old saying, "How you practice, is how you play".  It means much more to developmental guys, like Ogbuehi, than it does for the established vets.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-13-2017, 06:46 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He had a few nice plays but overall he still showed the same issues in the run game. 
He's got a very long way to go. He had 2 spectacularly bad plays vs the run that can be very costly in a real game. 

Other than his size and school, I never got the Cedric appeal. 

I'm not seeing it man. I can see questioning the passpro. He was pushing guys around in the run game. Mauling. POA and 2nd level...other than one time.

Passpro...i hear what you're saying. But i only saw the old Ced one time that comes to mind. On the check down where Mixon jitterbugged his way for nice yardage, off the snap Ced was horrific. He opened right up and stuck his arm out right away. The defender, after a nice little hug from Ced broke it back inside for a pressure before McCarron got it off to MIxon. 

Other times, i think 2 come to mind, he was late adjusting to the outside speed and the DE went right around him. 

There were several other times he was very solid and technique sound. 

If you watch it back a couple times, you might be a little surprised that it was better than you initially thought. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-13-2017, 08:24 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'm not seeing it man. I can see questioning the passpro. He was pushing guys around in the run game. Mauling. POA and 2nd level...other than one time.

Passpro...i hear what you're saying. But i only saw the old Ced one time that comes to mind. On the check down where Mixon jitterbugged his way for nice yardage, off the snap Ced was horrific. He opened right up and stuck his arm out right away. The defender, after a nice little hug from Ced broke it back inside for a pressure before McCarron got it off to MIxon. 

Other times, i think 2 come to mind, he was late adjusting to the outside speed and the DE went right around him. 

There were several other times he was very solid and technique sound. 

If you watch it back a couple times, you might be a little surprised that it was better than you initially thought. 

First run play of the game. Took a false step. Lost depth and the FB rand into him with the gap closed. 

Then the obvious one where he just didn't even touch Spence.

Another one he whiffed on a LB going to the second level. 

Those are off the top of my head. And I was only really watching vs starters for Tampa. 

As for the pass pro, sorry but I really just think you are wrong and/or looking for the wrong things. Just because the play didn't result in a sack or hit, doesn't mean he did it well. They designed the offense so he wouldn't look like shit.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-13-2017, 08:30 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: First run play of the game. Took a false step. Lost depth and the FB rand into him with the gap closed. 

Then the obvious one where he just didn't even touch Spence.

Another one he whiffed on a LB going to the second level. 

Those are off the top of my head. And I was only really watching vs starters for Tampa. 

As for the pass pro, sorry but I really just think you are wrong and/or looking for the wrong things. Just because the play didn't result in a sack or hit, doesn't mean he did it well. They designed the offense so he wouldn't look like shit.

I'm not even talking about the result. 

I'm talking about foot spacing, keeping his back straight and his shoulders square, then reacting to the rush while using his hands properly to control the rusher. 

No doubt he whiffed a few times. In another post i went play by play and said whether i thought he won or lost the snap. 

Considering how bad he looked last year, compared to the improvement i saw last night, i do think there's some hope that he can not be the weak link. And in the run game....i never paid much attention to him in the past here...i was very surprised how well he moved guys, considering how he's been crushed (rightly so) the last couple years. 

He's gonna miss some plays. You already know that everyone does. If he can continue to progress and cut those down...i think he'll be fine. 

P.S. for that one whiff on the 2nd level, i can think of 2 off the top of my head where he made an effective first block then took the 2nd defender out of the play.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-13-2017, 08:30 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: They designed the offense so he wouldn't look like shit.

I absolutely agree that the design was to give the new guys a much easier road.

[*rfaulk34*]

The funny part of this thread is, the title is "Cedric Ogbuehi took a step forward" and as you pointed out, on the first snap, everyone drove left and his first step was back. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

I'll have more time to thoroghly discuss this tomorrow when I can re-watch the entire game.
I've only had time to watch the first drive a few times to focus on 70, 61 and 66.

[Essex Johnson]

(08-13-2017, 04:41 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Barring great physical change (see Leveon Bell) players don't really change this late in the process.
He's 25. Not 21. 

He's likely at this point just what he is. 

To be blunt you really have no idea what you're talking about