Expiration date on our core players

[Luvnit2]

(08-23-2017, 11:30 AM)Wyche Wrote: While true, franchise QBs are typically hard to come by.....plus with the spread offense dominating the college landscape, it makes it harder and harder to find a day 1 ready NFL caliber QB.  We were very fortunate to land Dalton after Palmer......remember the list of QBs prior we had?  Only Jeff Blake was really a serviceable QB....maybe Jon Kitna.  

My point is we have no idea how the future shakes out, many assume our window is closing and we will get worse versus even considering the possibility we may be better as we turn the roster. I thought life after Palmer would be Jeff Blake like again, it was not. Is it good enough? Nope, we still are not reaching our post season goals, but AD has been much more consistent winning than Palmer was with Chad so there is that. There are many ways to get better, to assume because some of our good players age we immediately go down is pessimistic in my view.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-23-2017, 11:57 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: My point is we have no idea how the future shakes out, many assume our window is closing and we will get worse versus even considering the possibility we may be better as we turn the roster. I thought life after Palmer would be Jeff Blake like again, it was not. Is it good enough? Nope, we still are not reaching our post season goals, but AD has been much more consistent winning than Palmer was with Chad so there is that. There are many ways to get better, to assume because some of our good players age we immediately go down is pessimistic in my view.

Very true, the assumption of the window closing is based on the existing core, but there could be equal or better players brought in to keep that window open after the current core exits. We ultimately won't know until that time.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-23-2017, 12:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Very true, the assumption of the window closing is based on the existing core, but there could be equal or better players brought in to keep that window open after the current core exits. We ultimately won't know until that time.

It's hard to say. What I can say is we don't seem to be drafting impact players like we were 7-8 years ago. Dalton, Green, Boling, Dunlap, Atkins were all from the 2010/2011 drafts.

From 2012 Kirkpatrick is the only Bengal on the roster. 2014/2015 look like terrible drafts at this point.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-23-2017, 11:57 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: My point is we have no idea how the future shakes out, many assume our window is closing and we will get worse versus even considering the possibility we may be better as we turn the roster. I thought life after Palmer would be Jeff Blake like again, it was not. Is it good enough? Nope, we still are not reaching our post season goals, but AD has been much more consistent winning than Palmer was with Chad so there is that. There are many ways to get better, to assume because some of our good players age we immediately go down is pessimistic in my view.

I truly get all of that......but I'm basing the statement around QB play.  They're just not that easy to come by.  You could have Megatron in his prime, but if Johnny Fartball is throwing him the ball between shots of liquor and snorting rails, ya ain't gonna win much.  Jeff Blake played on some AWFUL teams, but he was good enough to get us to 8-8 and being competitive.  Dalton is good.  You are 100% correct in asserting that we could get better at many of the skill positions.....I totally agree with that.  However, if we miss on a QB prospect when Andy leaves, we could be in the shitter even with stacked skill positions.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-23-2017, 01:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's hard to say. What I can say is we don't seem to be drafting impact players like we were 7-8 years ago. Dalton, Green, Boling, Dunlap, Atkins were all from the 2010/2011 drafts.

From 2012 Kirkpatrick is the only Bengal on the roster. 2014/2015 look like terrible drafts at this point.

Also a valid point. It really comes down to how confident each individual fan is regarding this team's drafting and development process.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-23-2017, 01:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's hard to say. What I can say is we don't seem to be drafting impact players like we were 7-8 years ago. Dalton, Green, Boling, Dunlap, Atkins were all from the 2010/2011 drafts.

From 2012 Kirkpatrick is the only Bengal on the roster. 2014/2015 look like terrible drafts at this point.

Those are very valid points too.

[Luvnit2]

(08-23-2017, 01:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's hard to say. What I can say is we don't seem to be drafting impact players like we were 7-8 years ago. Dalton, Green, Boling, Dunlap, Atkins were all from the 2010/2011 drafts.

From 2012 Kirkpatrick is the only Bengal on the roster. 2014/2015 look like terrible drafts at this point.

Not drafted, but Burfict may be HOF caliber if he stays healthy.  But I agree, we have not hit on the high impact guys the past few years. Ross is our best draft pick at #9 I think since AJ so maybe he will be the one. I know very early, but I hope we look back in 3 years and say the 2017 draft class was the best in Bengal history. I am optimistic this group can become great.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-23-2017, 01:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Also a valid point. It really comes down to how confident each individual fan is regarding this team's drafting and development process.

Man, they knocked it out of the park there for several years, but the last few have left a lot to be desired.  Hopefully they have bounced back with this year's draft.  Early signs are looking that way....

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-23-2017, 01:57 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Not drafted, but Burfict may be HOF caliber if he stays healthy.  But I agree, we have not hit on the high impact guys the past few years. Ross is our best draft pick at #9 I think since AJ so maybe he will be the one. I know very early, but I hope we look back in 3 years and say the 2017 draft class was the best in Bengal history. I am optimistic this group can become great.

Yes, totally agree on 55.....and as I said in the above post, early indicators look promising for the class of '17. I'd also add that Trey Hopkins is looking like a nice prospect too.

[Luvnit2]

(08-23-2017, 02:02 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yes, totally agree on 55.....and as I said in the above post, early indicators look promising for the class of '17.  I'd also add that Trey Hopkins is looking like a nice prospect too.

I liked Jackson also when we drafted him so I am hoping a healthy 2nd year CB will team with Jones and Dre to give us a great trio of CB's. I watched Jackson at camp (I admit I am biased as liked him before we drafted him and was glad we got him and Steelers or Ravens did not) and he has great recovery speed. It was not as much a ball hawk that day so my guess he is still playing a little slower as he learns, but hopeful he becomes a shut down CB with an eye for huge plays.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-23-2017, 02:08 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I liked Jackson also when we drafted him so I am hoping a healthy 2nd year CB will team with Jones and Dre to give us a great trio of CB's. I watched Jackson at camp (I admit I am biased as liked him before we drafted him and was glad we got him and Steelers or Ravens did not) and he has great recovery speed. It was not as much a ball hawk that day so my guess he is still playing a little slower as he learns, but hopeful he becomes a shut down CB with an eye for huge plays.

Getting beat isn't a cardinal sin.....staying beat is.

I liked that pick too.....hope it pans out.

[Luvnit2]

Also on the draft picks, we knew Ced. was hurt and a no go as a rookie. But looking back, Dre was hurt year number 1, Dennard was hurt year number 1, Ced and then Jackson. Let's hope we can see a healthy John Ross as when your #1 pick does little or nothing to contribute as a rookie, the draft class immediately goes sideways most of the time.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-23-2017, 02:01 PM)Wyche Wrote: Man, they knocked it out of the park there for several years, but the last few have left a lot to be desired.  Hopefully they have bounced back with this year's draft.  Early signs are looking that way....

Yea it's interesting to look at draft "grades" a day after the draft and then reassess a few years down the road.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-22-2017, 02:17 PM)McC Wrote: We all pretty much know who the core players are.  How many years do these guys have left?       How open is the window?

3 or 4 years for our major stars, AJ, Geno, Burfict and Dunlap.

Ross, Billings, Willis, Mixon, WJ3 could be our future stars though. Maybe Lawson as well.

[Hoofhearted]

(08-23-2017, 01:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's hard to say. What I can say is we don't seem to be drafting impact players like we were 7-8 years ago. Dalton, Green, Boling, Dunlap, Atkins were all from the 2010/2011 drafts.

From 2012 Kirkpatrick is the only Bengal on the roster. 2014/2015 look like terrible drafts at this point.

2014 was Bodine and Hill. 2015 was OG, Fisher and Shaw. 2015 was certainly one of the worst draft classes we've had in during our run. At least they redeemed with a decent '16 class.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-23-2017, 01:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Also a valid point. It really comes down to how confident each individual fan is regarding this team's drafting and development process.

Especially when you don't sign free agents. Here is a list of all the Pro Bowl players the Bengals have drafted in franchise history by round.

As you see, we get the msot in Rounds 1 and 2. It declines sharply after that. This team lets Pro Bowl caliber players leave and touts a compensatory pick. We aren't drafting Pro Bowl caliber guys in the rounds those comp picks come in.

http://www.bengals.com/news/draft-history.html

[*ochocincos*]

(08-23-2017, 03:24 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Especially when you don't sign free agents. Here is a list of all the Pro Bowl players the Bengals have drafted in franchise history by round.

As you see, we get the msot in Rounds 1 and 2. It declines sharply after that. This team lets Pro Bowl caliber players leave and touts a compensatory pick. We aren't drafting Pro Bowl caliber guys in the rounds those comp picks come in.

http://www.bengals.com/news/draft-history.html

Exactly. Just like in fantasy football, if you whiff on your first and second round picks, you'll be in trouble.
The Bengals also need to get more production out of the later round guys during their rookie contracts if they want to stick to their current offseason talent strategy.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-23-2017, 03:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Exactly. Just like in fantasy football, if you whiff on your first and second round picks, you'll be in trouble.
The Bengals also need to get more production out of the later round guys during their rookie contracts if they want to stick to their current offseason talent strategy.

Quite frankly, they need their 1st Round picks starting in Year 1. That's been missing during the last 4 drafts or so.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-23-2017, 03:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Quite frankly, they need their 1st Round picks starting in Year 1. That's been missing during the last 4 drafts or so.

Definitely agree on that. Quit drafting CBs to ride the bench for 2-3 years because you want insurance. That's what cheaper vet CBs are meant for.

[sandwedge]

(08-23-2017, 03:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Quite frankly, they need their 1st Round picks starting in Year 1. That's been missing during the last 4 drafts or so.

I agree but the last few Rd 1 picks have been injured and sat out their 1st year.....