Expiration date on our core players

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-23-2017, 10:46 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You said it yourself, maybe our next QB is a HOF franchise QB and better than AD. Our defensive guys are very good, but none of them are hall of fame material. My point is the future could easily be better as the roster turns over, it could be worse, but we have no idea yet.

Geno Atkins will be a HoF candidate. He will almost certainly finish his career in the top 50 all-time in sacks (as a DT it is impressive and he needs 33 more to get there, so even as low as 6/yr for the next 5yrs), have 5+ 1st team All-Pros (3 right now), 2-3 2nd team All-Pros (1 right now), have 9+ Pro Bowls (at 5 right now)... and that's a conservative-ish estimate. We also don't know if/when the Bengals don't get him some actual help outside of Dunlap, and not knowing where he'll go after his contract is up. He could go to NE or Denver or something and win a SB or two, making him a lock.

He's led NFL DTs in sacks in 4 of his 7 years, with the three non-years coming from being a part-time rookie, a injury-shortened year (still 6 sacks in 9 games), and the year following that.

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Burfict would be a HoFer if he had played his entire career with the Steelers, but probably not any other team.

[*bengalfan74*]

Lots of good points already made.

I'd say 3 years is way pushing it, like others have said so many things can and most likely will happen.

If we get 2 more years with them all together we'll be flying ! So in summary the time is now - period.

[grampahol]

The draft is and always has been and always will be a crap shoot. The real difference i think is whether a team can coach up players to become impact players. I'm not sold on high picks for that matter. We've had some pretty darn good undrafted players and picked up some who were either cut by other teams or acquired by trade although the trades are far and few between.. As it's always said, it doesn't matter how a player gets into the league. What matters is what they do once they get there..

[grampahol]

Something else, every player has a 'best if used by' date, but with the youth movement also comes risk of them either getting injured or just not panning out as expected. Every player regardless of how good they are will reach the point when they just don't have it to keep up with the younger players and so every team, champions or cellar dwellers have to keep bringing in young players. It's just part of the game. Not every season is going to have the greatest drafts. Some will be great, but on average most won't so they have to go with undrafted, trades, free agency and so on. 
I don't necessarily expect the big stars of today to be big stars of tomorrow.  Every player is one torn tendon or one fractured bone away from the end of their careers. The really really lucky ones get to play their entire career relatively injury free, but those are far and few between. 
Can they reload successfully year after year?  That's anyones guess, but they will always have to reload. Some years they can keep most of them and some years they have to wholesale them out and replace with youth, but that's a never ending cycle as long as people pay money to watch young men beat themselves up for a fist full of dollars.  
I think if this current crop of newly minted players can stay healthy they have a pretty good shot of this team being tough to beat. 
Marvin ain't gonna be around forever so the question is who replaces him when he's gone?  I'm not big on the idea of change just for the sake of change unless the replacement can do a better job. He ain't the greatest HC ever, but he's far from the worse.  

[Shake n Blake]

(08-22-2017, 02:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Three years IMO. Maybe could stretch it out a year or two beyond that, but you're getting into potential decline with age.

Burfict will be 27 in September.
Green just turned 29.
Atkins is 29.
Dunlap is 28.
Boling is 28.
Kirkpatrick will be 28 this season.
Iloka is 27.
Dalton will be 30 this season, but QBs last longer than the other position players. However, once he hits 35, you have to start wondering when the decline will come.

Most of those guys should have 3-4 more years of playing at a high level. Some a couple more. Dalton should have 7-8 more effective seasons.

(08-22-2017, 03:05 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Not everyone is as good or will be as durable as Whit lol.
I personally was sad to see Whit leave, but I thought three years was too long. I would have rather just franchise tagged him.

Pretty obvious that guys like Whit are the exception. He works his ass off and he's aging well. I still was ok with not signing him to a multi year deal. Shame we didn't bring in competition/insurance for Og though. I guess they didn't learn anything watching him wreck our season last year.

[HarleyDog]

(08-23-2017, 07:40 PM)grampahol Wrote: The draft is and always has been and always will be a crap shoot. The real difference i think is whether a team can coach up players to become impact players. I'm not sold on high picks for that matter. We've had some pretty darn good undrafted players and picked up some who were either cut by other teams or acquired by trade although the trades are far and few between.. As it's always said, it doesn't matter how a player gets into the league. What matters is what they do once they get there..

If the coaching is not effective, then your left with a kid who was taught college level football. Coaches are everything to a rookie. They need to teach what it's like to be a pro (both on and off the field). We don't teach, we don't coach! Rookies want to be taught, but in our scheme, they are supposed to watch and learn from the bench. You have to wait your turn. Then, when your called upon, you run on the field with an unloaded gun because you've been under coached.

I once heard a story from a gentleman who as a star in high school, went to U.D. and at practice for the team was wanting to be coached but couldn't get the attention to perform. Therefore, after practice, he walked to the coach one day to ask him what time it was just to get some attention. The coach looked at him and said, "look at your watch!" He had his watch on his arm. He was pretty embarrassed, but you get my point. He knew what time it was, he just wanted to be noticed.

[Luvnit2]

(08-23-2017, 06:21 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Geno Atkins will be a HoF candidate. He will almost certainly finish his career in the top 50 all-time in sacks (as a DT it is impressive and he needs 33 more to get there, so even as low as 6/yr for the next 5yrs), have 5+ 1st team All-Pros (3 right now), 2-3 2nd team All-Pros (1 right now), have 9+ Pro Bowls (at 5 right now)... and that's a conservative-ish estimate. We also don't know if/when the Bengals don't get him some actual help outside of Dunlap, and not knowing where he'll go after his contract is up. He could go to NE or Denver or something and win a SB or two, making him a lock.

He's led NFL DTs in sacks in 4 of his 7 years, with the three non-years coming from being a part-time rookie, a injury-shortened year (still 6 sacks in 9 games), and the year following that.

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Burfict would be a HoFer if he had played his entire career with the Steelers, but probably not any other team.

I hope you are right on Geno, but he has a lot of work to do to make the HOF. He needs to start in 2017 with double digit sacks so he can hit the numbers and make the HOF.