Anyone notice whit's poor play yesterday

[Luvnit2]

(09-19-2017, 10:31 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: No.

I can tell you still haven't looked at his contract and you are misquoting or misunderstood what I wrote. There is no point continuing this discussion until you look at his contract and get your information straight.

Really? Do you understand if the team has a cap hit in year one of 12.5 million and year 2 (if cut) of 6 million, it equates to a 18.5 on year contract if he is cut. Again, I used your numbers so no need to read basing my thoughts on you reading it. I assumed you were accurate.

This means 18.5 million was guaranteed using your numbers, so if one year Whittworth takes home 18.5 million. Please explain what I am missing using your numbers.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-19-2017, 11:00 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Really? Do you understand if the team has a cap hit in year one of 12.5 million and year 2 (if cut) of 6 million, it equates to a 18.5 on year contract if he is cut. Again, I used your numbers so no need to read basing my thoughts on you reading it. I assumed you were accurate.

This means 18.5 million was guaranteed using your numbers, so if one year Whittworth takes home 18.5 million. Please explain what I am missing using your numbers.

Again, completely wrong.

First of all, he doesn't have a cap hit of $12.5 million in year one. Anyone who has looked at his contract can see that which means you still haven't looked at his contract.

Do you understand the cap hit and the guaranteed money are different? Obviously not.

Do you understand the dead cap space includes money that was already paid in previous years, but is pro rated for cap accounting purposes? Obviously not.

Claiming he gets paid $18.5 million for one season if he is cut is completely wrong. Now, you have a choice; look at his contract and educate yourself or continue to spread misinformation.

[CJD]

"I don't need any sour grapes."

[McC]

Whit on one leg with one arm in a sling is better than CedO will ever be. An off day by him is better than CedO will ever have. I take no comfort in any struggles he might have.

[Whatever]

(09-19-2017, 10:06 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That's correct. His cap hit for this year is less than $10 million. Does he get paid $18 million for one year if he is cut like Luvinit wrote?  No. If he is cut after one season he gets the guaranteed money and that's all. Or about $2.5 million more in guaranteed money than the Bengals offered. And if the Rams do cut him after one year they have less than $6 million in dead cap space which they can pro rate over 2 years. Both Whit's cap hit and cash pay out for this year is less than the franchise tag for linemen, also. All in all, the only way this is a bad deal for the Rams is if Whit suddenly starts to play like Ogbuehi.

It's still a bad deal if Whit continues to play like a middle of the pack LT and they are paying him elite money.  If he continues to play at his current level, they will probably have to cut him next year when his cap number balloons to $12+ mill.  That means close to $6 mil in dead money, which is a quality starter at most positions.  If they pro rate it, $3 mil over two years is still an average starter at a lot of positions or a quality rotation player.

If the Rams were a playoff team, then the deal may be worth the gamble.  However, they aren't.  Whit is just an expensive stopgap that they going to need to look at replacing next year.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-19-2017, 01:23 PM)Whatever Wrote: It's still a bad deal if Whit continues to play like a middle of the pack LT and they are paying him elite money.  If he continues to play at his current level, they will probably have to cut him next year when his cap number balloons to $12+ mill.  That means close to $6 mil in dead money, which is a quality starter at most positions.  If they pro rate it, $3 mil over two years is still an average starter at a lot of positions or a quality rotation player.

If the Rams were a playoff team, then the deal may be worth the gamble.  However, they aren't.  Whit is just an expensive stopgap that they going to need to look at replacing next year.

Are the Bengals a playoff team?

[*Synric*]

(09-19-2017, 09:09 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: '13!

That's when Boling went down with the ACL, he moved to LG and Collins started at LT, paving his unmotivated rear to the stupid contract Tampa gave him.

Never forget Whit pulling around Collins and de cleating a safety with one hand lol.

[Whatever]

(09-19-2017, 02:58 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Are the Bengals a playoff team?

We sure don't look like one.  However, we wanted to go year to year so we wouldn't be saddled with a bunch of dead money when we had to cut ties.

People are getting too wrapped up in the cap charge for this year.  If Whit gets cut after this year, between his cap hit this year and the acceleration of bonus money puts his total cap charge for one year of play over $15 million.  If he gets cut after year two, it's $22.8 mill over 2 years.  That's why most former FO people have said this is a bad deal.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-19-2017, 04:50 PM)Whatever Wrote: We sure don't look like one.  However, we wanted to go year to year so we wouldn't be saddled with a bunch of dead money when we had to cut ties.

People are getting too wrapped up in the cap charge for this year.  If Whit gets cut after this year, between his cap hit this year and the acceleration of bonus money puts his total cap charge for one year of play over $15 million.  If he gets cut after year two, it's $22.8 mill over 2 years.  That's why most former FO people have said this is a bad deal.

We could have easily franchise tagged him which would have bee for 1 year.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-18-2017, 10:55 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: For all of you wanting to resign whit. He was absolute garbage against the redskins. The sack he gave up against kerrigan caused goff to fumble it cost rams game. He was getting beat quite frequently yesterday.

Yeah, i didn't get to see the 2nd half but he sure didn't look like the good old Whit we had here.

Weird seeing him in a Rams uniform as well.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-19-2017, 04:50 PM)Whatever Wrote: We sure don't look like one.  However, we wanted to go year to year so we wouldn't be saddled with a bunch of dead money when we had to cut ties.

People are getting too wrapped up in the cap charge for this year.  If Whit gets cut after this year, between his cap hit this year and the acceleration of bonus money puts his total cap charge for one year of play over $15 million.  If he gets cut after year two, it's $22.8 mill over 2 years.  That's why most former FO people have said this is a bad deal.

Is $6 million a lot of dead money? If they pro rate it they wouldn't be able to sign a player of Andre Smith's caliber two years running. Wow, imagine this team with Andre Smith's replacement next season.

[BengalsBong]

(09-18-2017, 11:17 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: What did Ced show at RT that would make anyone think he'd be any good at LT?

He played LT in college and he was drafted to be our LT so why would you determine if he could play LT by playing RT??

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-19-2017, 06:18 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: He played LT in college and he was drafted to be our LT so why would you determine if he could play LT by playing RT??

Well, then you know he had more starts at RT and G during college than LT, right? And generally if offensive lineman can play LT they can also play RT. Every draft season we hear about college LTs that may have to move to RT in the NFL. How many times have you heard a college RT might have to move to LT in the NFL? Zero.

Do you think he will suddenly get better at LT blocking more athletic pass rushers?

[SunsetBengal]

(09-18-2017, 12:17 PM)Wyche Wrote: To be fair, the Coliseum seats at least 95K.  That's a lot of seats to fill.

I think I heard someone on the radio say that the combined attendance of both LA teams was around 55K.  Now, the Rams game sold over 60K tickets, but had a ton of no-shows.  Likely because they had tickets as low as $6.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(09-19-2017, 06:18 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: He played LT in college and he was drafted to be our LT so why would you determine if he could play LT by playing RT??

He played so poorly at LT he got switched to RT.  After giving up 7 sacks in like 7 games. As a 5th year senior no less..  

[Whatever]

(09-19-2017, 05:39 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Is $6 million a lot of dead money?  If they pro rate it they wouldn't be able to sign a player of Andre Smith's caliber two years running. Wow, imagine this team with Andre Smith's replacement next season.

$6 mil is a lot of dead money.  Guys like Minter, Bolling, and LaFell all make less than $6 mil a year.  The Rams have the 16th most dead money with $5.71 mil this year.  A $6 mil cap hit alone would be more than half the teams in the league, and a quarter of the league has under $3 mil in dead money.  $6 mil on one contract is a lot of dead money.  The median salary for a starting G is $3 mil a year.  Just because Andre Smith is overpaid for a guy who couldn't win a starting job doesn't mean $3 mil is a trivial amount of cap space.  You can find plenty of solid contributors making that much or less.  Plus, that $3 mil can be the difference between keeping/signing a player or losing them.

Seriously, your logic is basically akin to buying a car worth $15k for $20k, then saying it's a great deal because you got a lower monthly payment by stretching out the financing an extra year.  I really hope some people on here don't manage their own finances the same way they think the Bengals should manage theirs.  

[BengalsBong]

(09-19-2017, 07:02 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Well, then you know he had more starts at RT and G during college than LT, right? And generally if offensive lineman can play LT they can also play RT. Every draft season we hear about college LTs that may have to move to RT in the NFL. How many times have you heard a college RT might have to move to LT in the NFL?  Zero.

Do you think he will suddenly get better at LT blocking more athletic pass rushers?

He will be our starting LT for awhile he was drafted to replace Whit. Fisher was drafted to play RT and I believe he will be starting there for some time also. They are not real great now but look who is their position coach you cant expect a polished product even after three years under his eye. They will need to get better under fire on the field in games not in the classroom. These are called growing pains and it is hard on the players to be bad in front of the world with all the fans hating on them. But they will be better players in the next two to four games is my guess. I just hope the guards and center improve also so we can have a half way decent line this year so we know what direction to go in by the time off season and the draft comes around again. This should have been done last year.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-20-2017, 12:09 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: He will be our starting LT for awhile he was drafted to replace Whit. Fisher was drafted to play RT and I believe he will be starting there for some time also. They are not real great now but look who is their position coach you cant expect a polished product even after three years under his eye. They will need to get better under fire on the field in games not in the classroom. These are called growing pains and it is hard on the players to be bad in front of the world with all the fans hating on them. But they will be better players in the next two to four games is my guess. I just hope the guards and center improve also so we can have a half way decent line this year so we know what direction to go in by the time off season and the draft comes around again. This should have been done last year.

How much has Bodine improved?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-19-2017, 11:55 PM)Whatever Wrote: $6 mil is a lot of dead money.  Guys like Minter, Bolling, and LaFell all make less than $6 mil a year.  The Rams have the 16th most dead money with $5.71 mil this year.  A $6 mil cap hit alone would be more than half the teams in the league, and a quarter of the league has under $3 mil in dead money.  $6 mil on one contract is a lot of dead money.  The median salary for a starting G is $3 mil a year.  Just because Andre Smith is overpaid for a guy who couldn't win a starting job doesn't mean $3 mil is a trivial amount of cap space.  You can find plenty of solid contributors making that much or less.  Plus, that $3 mil can be the difference between keeping/signing a player or losing them.

And prorated it's $3 million a year = 1 fat ass, oft injured Andre Smith past his prime retread. Plus the salary cap went up $12 million this season just like it does every year. So $3 million of $167 million isn't a lot.

Quote:Seriously, your logic is basically akin to buying a car worth $15k for $20k, then saying it's a great deal because you got a lower monthly payment by stretching out the financing an extra year.  I really hope some people on here don't manage their own finances the same way they think the Bengals should manage theirs.  

That's not my logic at all. My logic is I'd rather have Whitworth and Ogbuehi than Ogbuehi and Andre Smith. Why? Because Whitworth is better than both of them, he would have fit under the cap, and if his play suddenly was as bad as Ogbuehi, they could cut him and the only thing the team would miss out on would be signing a shitty free agent like Andre Smith.

I'm not going to hazard a guess as to your logic bacause I don't really care.

[Luvnit2]

(09-19-2017, 11:53 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Again, completely wrong.

First of all, he doesn't have a cap hit of $12.5 million in year one. Anyone who has looked at his contract can see that which means you still haven't looked at his contract.

Do you understand the cap hit and the guaranteed money are different?  Obviously not.

Do you understand the dead cap space includes money that was already paid in previous years, but is pro rated for cap accounting purposes? Obviously not.

Claiming he gets paid $18.5 million for one season if he is cut is completely wrong. Now, you have a choice; look at his contract and educate yourself or continue to spread misinformation.

You are talking cap hits, I am talking actual paid money to Whittworth over 2 years even though he plays one year. He will be paid 18.5 million in bonuses and salary regardless whether he takes one snap in 2018 for the Rams. So, my common sense tells me the deal the Bengals offered is not close to the one offered by the Rams. The Bengals offered a 1 year guaranteed contract for around 12 million.