Tale of Two Andy's

[The Caped Crusader]

I think perhaps the most brought up topic when it comes to discussing sunday's with people I know is Dalton. Sure, the man who touches the ball the most, will receive the most eyes. That being said, arm chair QBing is at an all time high. Even after defending the man with the usual, our offensive line is trash and Ken Zampese couldn't call an effective Madden online game...I finally gave up. Now, I guess we are 'seeing' a 'resurgence'...even still...here are some stats I've compiled...they're interesting.

(All 2017 games)


Under Zampese:

Att/Comp: 36/66
Yards: 394
TD: 0
INT: 4
AVG Comp: 5.4
QB Rating: 52.4
Time Sacked: 8
Avg Pass D Rank: 12.5


Under Lazor:

Att/Comp: 46/57
Yard: 498
TD: 6
INT: 0
AVG Comp: 8.69
QB Rating: 135.05
Time Sacked: 6
Avg Pass D Rank: 14



Defenses are about the same. Quite obvious that Lazor knows how to use Andy (less throws). I'm sure you could delve deeper, but even surface stats these last two games are high quality caliber QB stats.

[Whacked]

DANG. Talk about a stark contrast. Wow.

[*Go Cards*]

Think because Zampese was trying to run his entire offense.

While Lazor has modified play calling per OL being so horrible.

[*SHRacerX*]

Still sacked waaaaayyyyy to often. Needs to give Dalton more bootlegs and waggles. Get him off the same spot. Extends plays and gives our guys more time to get open and changes the target spot for a defensive pass rusher.

It's better, but not good enough yet.

With Ross and Core on the field taking safeties off the line, it could help our rushing attack, but they have to be on the field first. Not sure what the excuse is for Core, but he needs to be out there.

[The Real Deal]

(10-03-2017, 08:08 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Still sacked waaaaayyyyy to often. Needs to give Dalton more bootlegs and waggles. Get him off the same spot. Extends plays and gives our guys more time to get open and changes the target spot for a defensive pass rusher.

It's better, but not good enough yet.

With Ross and Core on the field taking safeties off the line, it could help our rushing attack, but they have to be on the field first. Not sure what the excuse is for Core, but he needs to be out there.

Agreed he’s sacked too often. While still bad, The Oline, believe it or not, has looked just a tad better the last few weeks. IF (big if) it can continue to improve we just might have a shot at getting back in this thing.

But let’s just get by Buffalo first....

[XenoMorph]

(10-03-2017, 09:53 AM)The Real Deal Wrote: Agreed he’s sacked too often. While still bad, The Oline, believe it or not, has looked just a tad better the last few weeks. IF (big if) it can continue to improve we just might have a shot at getting back in this thing.

But let’s just get by Buffalo first....

the OL still looked bad vs a very bad browns team....


But not much we can do about it know except hope they gel over the season


I wouldn't say the key to Dalton is to throw less.... But you do have to have some balance and an offense that works. (our run game didn't work vs the browns either... which is worrysome)

[Aquapod770]

(10-03-2017, 07:41 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Think because Zampese was trying to run his entire offense.

While Lazor has modified play calling per OL being so horrible.

And rotating Smith in at both tackle spots has been huge. It's sad that our tackles are so bad that Andre Smith is a huge improvement. 

[*pally*]

it wasn't just the number of throws but the types of throws that made a difference. There were more roll outs and different targets

[*PhilHos*]

(10-03-2017, 04:45 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: I think perhaps the most brought up topic when it comes to discussing sunday's with people I know is Dalton. Sure, the man who touches the ball the most, will receive the most eyes. That being said, arm chair QBing is at an all time high. Even after defending the man with the usual, our offensive line is trash and Ken Zampese couldn't call an effective Madden online game...I finally gave up. Now, I guess we are 'seeing' a 'resurgence'...even still...here are some stats I've compiled...they're interesting.

(All 2017 games)


Under Zampese:

Att/Comp: 36/66
Yards: 394
TD: 0
INT: 4
AVG Comp: 5.4
QB Rating: 52.4
Time Sacked: 8
Avg Pass D Rank: 12.5


Under Lazor:

Att/Comp: 46/57
Yard: 498
TD: 6
INT: 0
AVG Comp: 8.69
QB Rating: 135.05
Time Sacked: 6
Avg Pass D Rank: 14



Defenses are about the same. Quite obvious that Lazor knows how to use Andy (less throws). I'm sure you could delve deeper, but even surface stats these last two games are high quality caliber QB stats.

Heck, looking at last year's stats under Ken Zampese and a bad OL and it just makes even less sense why so many were too quick to bash Dalton after the first 2 games.

To review, here are his stats from last season:
364 comp 563 att 4,206 yards 18 TD 8 INT 41 sacks 91.8 QB rating

[muskiesfan]

(10-03-2017, 12:05 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Heck, looking at last year's stats under Ken Zampese and a bad OL and it just makes even less sense why so many were too quick to bash Dalton after the first 2 games.

To review, here are his stats from last season:
364 comp 563 att 4,206 yards 18 TD 8 INT 41 sacks 91.8 QB rating

It’s because we have the next Tom Brady as his backup. Duh.

Dalton has never really had a fair chance since he got here. Didn’t go to a big time school, didn’t win a national title, didn’t win a Heisman. Plus, we took him in the second round. If he were so good, he’d have went in the first(yes, the haters say stupid things like that).

What he’s done for this franchise and city deserves a helluva lot more love than he gets. Fans can’t wait to boo and call for McCarron. The way a lot of fans treat and talk about him, you’d think we trot out the same shit the Browns do.

[Deanlj69]

(10-03-2017, 08:56 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: It’s because we have the next Tom Brady as his backup. Duh.

Dalton has never really had a fair chance since he got here. Didn’t go to a big time school, didn’t win a national title, didn’t win a Heisman. Plus, we took him in the second round. If he were so good, he’d have went in the first(yes, the haters say stupid things like that).

What he’s done for this franchise and city deserves a helluva lot more love than he gets. Fans can’t wait to boo and call for McCarron. The way a lot of fans treat and talk about him, you’d think we trot out the same shit the Browns do.

Not a hater but definitely not an apologist who has an excuse for everything he does poorly. I simply now base it on his ability to win big games. If you have excuses for that then there is no reasoning with you. As of now his career can be summed up as Mr Regular Season

[Shake n Blake]

(10-03-2017, 09:48 PM)Deanlj69 Wrote: Not a hater but definitely not an apologist who has an excuse for everything he does poorly. I simply now base it on his ability to win big games. If you have excuses for that then there is no reasoning with you. As of now his career can be summed up as Mr Regular Season

As of now, Marv's career can be summed up as Mr Regular Season.

Is Dalton really the only player over the last 15 years that needs an "excuse" for his poor play in the playoffs (or prime-time)?

[The Caped Crusader]

(10-03-2017, 08:08 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Still sacked waaaaayyyyy to often.  Needs to give Dalton more bootlegs and waggles.  Get him off the same spot.  Extends plays and gives our guys more time to get open and changes the target spot for a defensive pass rusher.

It's better, but not good enough yet.  

With Ross and Core on the field taking safeties off the line, it could help our rushing attack, but they have to be on the field first.  Not sure what the excuse is for Core, but he needs to be out there.

This is what GB and Seattle do. GB is far more successful with it. Try to extend plays, and allow more passes deep. This is why we aren't seeing many targets downfield.

[Bilbo Saggins]

(10-04-2017, 12:48 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: As of now, Marv's career can be summed up as Mr Regular Season.

Is Dalton really the only player over the last 15 years that needs an "excuse" for his poor play in the playoffs (or prime-time)?

Took the words right outta my mouth. Marvin Lewis has been to the playoffs with 3 different QBs - not a single one has a good post season passer rating. 

[The Caped Crusader]

(10-04-2017, 02:18 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Took the words right outta my mouth. Marvin Lewis has been to the playoffs with 3 different QBs - not a single one has a good post season passer rating. 

They all struggle in primetime...and all have offenses that mysteriously vanish at halftime with a lead...


Interesting..

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-04-2017, 02:18 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Took the words right outta my mouth. Marvin Lewis has been to the playoffs with 3 different QBs - not a single one has a good post season passer rating. 

Four.

[The Caped Crusader]

(10-04-2017, 03:29 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Four.

And to piggy back on that...


McCarron posted a 68.3 quarterback rating...so four QBs that have performed abysmal under Marvin...

[Atomic Orange]

(10-03-2017, 09:48 PM)Deanlj69 Wrote: Not a hater but definitely not an apologist who has an excuse for everything he does poorly. I simply now base it on his ability to win big games. If you have excuses for that then there is no reasoning with you. As of now his career can be summed up as Mr Regular Season

 The Marvin Lewis led Bengals are 8-30 in primetime and playoff games. 

[PDub80]

Andy had 1 good HALF against the Packers (sorry, but leading the team to 1 field goal and 2 fg tries in the 2nd half is pitiful given the talent around him) and a big game against the Browns who are the worst team in the league by miles. I'll reserve judgment until after the Bills and Steelers.

The thing that encourages me is that Andy blatantly missed game changing/winning throws against the Ravens, Texans, and Packers or the Bengals would be 4-0. The rest of the team played well enough to have won those 3 games if Andy would have played even just a good game from start to finish.

The new OC has helped the entire offense, but I'm not laying the blame for 1 & solely on Zampese. The Bengals would have won those games if Andy had been anything but putrid. AD's floor (how bad he can be) is what worries me. His ceiling is sky high, but he's too inconsistent to stay up there for long. Hopefully he can catch a hot streak and only crash land 2 more times the rest of the way. Fingers crossed.

[muskiesfan]

(10-03-2017, 09:48 PM)Deanlj69 Wrote: Not a hater but definitely not an apologist who has an excuse for everything he does poorly. I simply now base it on his ability to win big games. If you have excuses for that then there is no reasoning with you. As of now his career can be summed up as Mr Regular Season

I'm not making any excuses for the guy. He's needs to play better in the postseason. His coach isn't doing him any favors though. Lewis hasn't has postseason success with any QB. That's not saying Dalton doesn't need to play better or isn't a part of the problem. That's just saying he is far from the only problem.