Yes, our OL is that bad - It's not your imagination

[CornerBlitz]

(10-14-2017, 07:18 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Depending on where we draft we may actually be active in Free agency this year to fix this group.

Don't hold your breath. 

[grampahol]

It kind of makes me hope that we suffer some season ending injuries on the offensive line which would force the team to move on to find some other players to fill in, but I'm not prepared to go that far and actually hope for this to happen. It really makes you wonder why they would continue to have faith in these guys when it's so painfully obvious, but I have to go back to the Washington Generals theory that they're set up to fail as the plan. If we had a great offensive line suddenly and one more great receiver then what? It would ruin the plan to have Rottenbooger ride off into the sunset ala Peyton Manning, Elway and a whole list of has been, washed up QBs who in their last season(s) unexplainably with career ending injuries looming suddenly win it all because it's written in the script..  

[THE PISTONS]

(10-14-2017, 07:42 PM)grampahol Wrote: It kind of makes me hope that we suffer some season ending injuries on the offensive line which would force the team to move on to find some other players to fill in, but I'm not prepared to go that far and actually hope for this to happen. It really makes you wonder why they would continue to have faith in these guys when it's so painfully obvious, but I have to go back to the Washington Generals theory that they're set up to fail as the plan. If we had a great offensive line suddenly and one more great receiver then what? It would ruin the plan to have Rottenbooger ride off into the sunset ala Peyton Manning, Elway and a whole list of has been, washed up QBs who in their last season(s) unexplainably with career ending injuries looming suddenly win it all because it's written in the script..  

You're kind of breaking character...

But in response to your question...because it saves money. Good lineman cost money.

[Pat5775]

(10-14-2017, 07:42 PM)grampahol Wrote: It kind of makes me hope that we suffer some season ending injuries on the offensive line which would force the team to move on to find some other players to fill in, but I'm not prepared to go that far and actually hope for this to happen. It really makes you wonder why they would continue to have faith in these guys when it's so painfully obvious, but I have to go back to the Washington Generals theory that they're set up to fail as the plan. If we had a great offensive line suddenly and one more great receiver then what? It would ruin the plan to have Rottenbooger ride off into the sunset ala Peyton Manning, Elway and a whole list of has been, washed up QBs who in their last season(s) unexplainably with career ending injuries looming suddenly win it all because it's written in the script..  

I feel like that's a yearly narrative around here. There's always a player or position group some of us begrudgingly hope exits via injury because the odds of said player or position group being benched are practically zero.

I have yet to ever reach that point, because I always hate to see players injured. No matter who it is. But I will admit there's certain players I won't lose any sleep over if they're lost for the season. Addition by subtraction can be a very real thing  

[*ochocincos*]

(10-14-2017, 06:28 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: To me a whole bunch of the excuse for our RB's ! Our backs are met in the backfield on probably 1/2 or better of running plays. Most of the other half they're met at the LOS. Perhaps 1 play out of 10 they actually have a decent hole ?

Hell with this line we could have Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, and Earl Campbell and we'd struggle to run the ball !

Lazor is gonna have to get creative for us to have any real chance down the road.

I can’t find the twitter post I saw a few days ago, but I saw a stat that had Mixon as one of the top 3 RBs when it came to making his own yardage. Which goes to show how terrible this OL is if he’s one of the best at that and still just averages 2.8 YPC.


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[StLucieBengal]

(10-14-2017, 07:32 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Don't hold your breath. 

Just saw the list of potential OL free agents and I hope we aren't active other than Andre.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-14-2017, 09:02 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Just saw the list of potential OL free agents and I hope we aren't active other than Andre.

There are some solid centers. That’s about it.


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[RoyleRedlegs]

(10-14-2017, 06:00 PM)Synric Wrote: Why would I? They are one of the worst rushing teams and have let damn near as many sacks as the Bengals line. 

The difference is they grade Thomas and Bitino high which averages out their line per their player grades.

They have Carolina at 2...The chiefs at 13....

I mean seriously can anyone here say thr Browns line is better than the Chiefs with a straight face?

Yes. 
So much of the Browns' OL issues stem from their QB. 
No one worries about the pass game. So they overload vs the run.
Kizer holds the ball trying to extend plays longer than he should. Leads to A LOT of sacks. 
If Joe Thomas is taking short sets and the ball isn't out in a hurry, that's a QB sack 
They also love the RB carousel and we see how well that works. 

KC has a good run blocking OL but between Hunt's breakout and Smith having his best year, they are being given a lot of help there. 

Carolina does have a quietly good OL for the offense they run. 


Now this is all from PFF and I don't care for their OL grades because they focus so heavy on results not the process. 
I wouldn't rank them like that, just in tiers. Browns, Chiefs and Panthers, for me, are all in the same tier. 

[bonesaw]

relax guys. I signed them all up for some MMA training with Jay Glazier during the bye week. Everything is gonna be cool from here on out

[phil413]

(10-14-2017, 03:49 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Ran across this article today and it confirms that our OL just plain sucks.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/10/13/16462840/pff-ranks-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-bengals-30th

Here are some interesting quotes:



Russell Bodine 43.3, 28th ranked Center

Jake Fisher 42.6, 58th ranked Tackle
Cedric Ogbuehi 40.6, 60th ranked Tackle

I honestly thought Boling would take a hit like Zeitler did last year taking tickets between two turnstiles.  I'm actually surprised he's over 50.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-15-2017, 12:31 AM)phil413 Wrote: I honestly thought Boling would take a hit like Zeitler did last year taking tickets between two turnstiles.  I'm actually surprised he's over 50.

Isn't 50 still considered a bad or below average grade by PFF though?

I'm not trying to say Boling is bad, but maybe it is affecting him.

[GreenCornBengal]

Are the scores an average from all of the games this season? Thought the O line handled a fairly good Bills D line from what I saw. Perhaps the first few games are bringing the scores down a bit?

[HarleyDog]

(10-14-2017, 06:50 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: My fear is this seasons riding with our Bad O-line while letting our two best linemen go is gonna end up ranking up there in the top 5 Bengals woulda, coulda, shoulda, FUBARS.

Greg Cook, Bill Walsh, Akili Smith, you know the list. Now add 2016-17 line screw up doing in the window with the core AJ, Andy, Geno, Carlos, Vontaze.

Maybe somebody can pull a rabbit outta their hat ?

Or a head out of their ass!

[*bfine32*]

I know the narrative is oline, oline, oline, but sometimes your playmakers have to make plays. When Ty Montgomery was the lead back in GB he averaged 3.3 YPC, he goes down and Aaron Jones is averaging 5.4 YPC. Did their oline get that much better?

Right now Gio Bernard is averaging 4.6 YPC behind the same oline that Mixon is averaging 2.8 YPC. So do they block better for Gio? You know a big reason a RB might get hit often behind the LOS? He spends too much time there.

In their most recent game they gave up 1 sack to a Bills team that has 12 on the year. I fully realize that Andy get sacked because of oline and Andy doesn't get sacked because of Andy.

This is not to say the oline is performing well, they are not, but as I mentioned earlier I don't know how much stock I put in a ranking that has CLV and GB olines top 10 and has NYG above anyone. I also grow tired over every other thread being about the poor oline and the few threads that are not about the oline become...."but the oline". To make an omelette you have to break a few eggs, we are currently in the egg breaking stage in 3 of our 5 Oline positions. The constants are Boling and Bodine and they were a fine combination against the run last year.

So maybe, just maybe we can talk about something else every now and then. Hell, Marvin thinks there are too many "oline sucks" threads

[THE PISTONS]

(10-14-2017, 08:47 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I feel like that's a yearly narrative around here. There's always a player or position group some of us begrudgingly hope exits via injury because the odds of said player or position group being benched are practically zero.

I have yet to ever reach that point, because I always hate to see players injured. No matter who it is. But I will admit there's certain players I won't lose any sleep over if they're lost for the season. Addition by subtraction can be a very real thing  

What does that say about the team that some fans wish that a guy gets injured and can't play to force the team to upgrade a weak position?

Shouldn't management WANT to improve the team???

[THE PISTONS]

(10-14-2017, 09:02 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Just saw the list of potential OL free agents and I hope we aren't active other than Andre.

Yeah that's the thing. And that's why guys like Kevin Zeitler sign high contracts. Supply/Demand and the fact that the salary cap rises by $10 million each year.

Teams generally retain their quality lineman so the limited amount of guys that hit free agency receive a huge payday.

Like I believe Nate Solder is a free agent. No way would we pay him.

The team may replace Center...because Bodine is a free agent and any contract he signs would be higher than his rookie deal. So they'll draft a 3rd Round Center and start him. Probably a 30% change that a 1st Round Center is ready to go and good in Year 1...but the bar is low on Bodine.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-14-2017, 09:36 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Yes. 
So much of the Browns' OL issues stem from their QB. 
No one worries about the pass game. So they overload vs the run.
Kizer holds the ball trying to extend plays longer than he should. Leads to A LOT of sacks. 
If Joe Thomas is taking short sets and the ball isn't out in a hurry, that's a QB sack 
They also love the RB carousel and we see how well that works. 

KC has a good run blocking OL but between Hunt's breakout and Smith having his best year, they are being given a lot of help there. 

Carolina does have a quietly good OL for the offense they run. 


Now this is all from PFF and I don't care for their OL grades because they focus so heavy on results not the process. 
I wouldn't rank them like that, just in tiers. Browns, Chiefs and Panthers, for me, are all in the same tier. 

The Browns are such an outlier in a lot of things. You almost have to throw them out when doing analysis.

But you hit the nail on the head with your post.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-15-2017, 02:34 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Isn't 50 still considered a bad or below average grade by PFF though?

I'm not trying to say Boling is bad, but maybe it is affecting him.

Boling overall this year grades out at 75.3 which is considered Average.

I'm pretty sure that 50 is considered Poor.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(10-15-2017, 11:07 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Browns are such an outlier in a lot of things. You almost have to throw them out when doing analysis.

But you hit the nail on the head with your post.

Thanks. Carolina does have a LT as bad or worse than ours, but Cam mitigates a LOT of that which does influence the PFF grades a bit for that spot. Can't give up a pressure if the QB is already running....but from LG to RT they are set pretty solid and have Moton waiting in the wings. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(10-15-2017, 02:34 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Isn't 50 still considered a bad or below average grade by PFF though?

I'm not trying to say Boling is bad, but maybe it is affecting him.

That's the PFF grade style though. It's impacting him as far as double teams and stunts aren't being picked up as smoothly. 
And it impacts his pulling when the C/RG/RT aren't making the right blocks (or any blocks) when he's pulling around. 

He's been playing at his same high level for the most part. 
PFF is almost all results based. 
Process matters too.