2018 Changes will be like Lipstick on a Pig

[depthchart]

Having no Coaches under contract after the 2017 season offers Mike Brown likely his last chance to get it right.

The only problem is that GM Mike Brown informed his coaches that "talent is not the problem" which tells me that GM Mike Brown thinks that he has been doing his job as GM just fine.

Whitworth being a part of a Solid Plan to turn around the Rams by helping protect their young developing QB may not resonate with GM Mike Brown as being an example of another GM understanding the value of Mike Brown's players more than he does.

The Rams turnaround after firing Jeff Fisher and replacing him with Sean McVay is near amazing.

While they retained the same GM (Les Snead) they radically altered their strategies. Brought in Defensive Guru Wade Phillips. Acquired LT Andrew Whitworth and two veteran wide receivers in Sammy Watkins & Robert Woods.

Sean McVay given authority to change the Jeff Fisher culture and influence the Rams GM enough to chart a new course that is working.

The problem we have in Cincinnati is that "talent" has been part of the problem which is contrary to what Mike Brown said to his coaches who are also part of the problem.

The Rams saw Andrew Whitworth as a "talent" that they prized which makes their GM look smarter than our GM.

All Bengal Coaches contracts expire after 2017.

A Major Culture change will have to take place.

Players like Pac Man and maybe others may have to be moved out in conjunction with a New Coach from outside this Organization like a Sean McVay being brought in.

We don't just have a Marvin Culture that needs changed as the Jeff Fisher Culture was changed with the Rams.

We have a GM/Owner Culture that must first admit that he contributed to the Sinking Ship. Mike Brown allowed the Rams to acquire Whitworth to solve their Left Tackle problem. He must Own this mistake and others.

Mike Brown's last chance to get it right falls on himself.

He must seek out highly sought after candidates (like the next Sean McVay) for his Head Coaching job that come from proven systems or winning teams, invest some dollars into his coaching Staff at all levels and at his next Head Coach's discretion. Let that Head Coach bring in a Wade Phillips caliber co-ordinator as the Rams did if he choses. Invest dollars into it since it is your last chance.

Then let that New Coaching Staff shape how you General Manage, Mr. Brown.

Let them Reshape the Mike Brown Culture by supplying them with the talent they think best fits what they want to do. Players with skill sets and personalities that fit the New Coaching Staff's Culture have to be identified by that New Coaching Staff. Not you.

Your Culture is embodied by the Chad's and Pac Man's of the league.

You change Mr. Brown or it won't.

You have to stop putting Lipstick on this Pig...

[kevin]

I like your Lipstick On A Pig....I often use Tuxedo On A Pig.....we both agree as long as Mike Brown in charge, it's all a joke. ...I sent you rep points for Lipstick On A Pig. New coach and new players would just be more lipstick on the piggy Brown Family.

[depthchart]

(11-06-2017, 04:00 PM)kevin Wrote: I like your Lipstick On A Pig....I often use Tuxedo On A Pig.....we both agree as long as Mike Brown in charge, it's all a joke.  ...I sent you rep points for Lipstick On A Pig.   New coach and new players would just be more lipstick on the piggy Brown Family.

Sadly, I think Mike Brown is of the opinion that he can just "tweak" things with a few new coaches while not realizing that the whole Culture of the team needs changed.

That he made no mistakes himself in the area of providing talent for his coaches.

That he can over see a New Culture being created when he himself was the Architect of the Old Failed Culture.

Someone else has to create this New Culture without his Finger Prints being on it or it won't be New.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-06-2017, 04:12 PM)depthchart Wrote: Sadly, I think Mike Brown is of the opinion that he can just "tweak" things with a few new coaches while not realizing that the whole Culture of the team needs changed.

That he made no mistakes himself in the area of providing talent for his coaches.

That he can over see a New Culture being created when he himself was the Architect of the Old Failed Culture.

Someone else has to create this New Culture without his Finger Prints being on it or it won't be New.

It's very rare for the person responsible for said culture to actually admit culture is bad. More often than not, the person in charge needs to be removed for there to be a culture shift.

[depthchart]

(11-06-2017, 04:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It's very rare for the person responsible for said culture to actually admit culture is bad. More often than not, the person in charge needs to be removed for there to be a culture shift.

Exactly...

For example:

If Mike hires a New Coach or two and then brings back Pac Man next year at an old age discount then the Culture remains the same.

If he learns nothing from letting the Rams sign Whitworth away then no chance of a better future.

Saying Coaches had enough talent to win with absolves him of Blame in his own mind.

He wises up enough to change himself or he repackages the same old product.

[Sled21]

Y'all can hack on Pac all you want.... he may have dropped off a little as a corner, but in reality he is one of only a few players on this team that acts like they give a damn if they win or not.

[bengals73]

(11-06-2017, 04:57 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Y'all can hack on Pac all you want.... he may have dropped off a little as a corner, but in reality he is one of only a few players on this team that acts like they give a damn if they win or not.

I agree with you here. Pac Man is still a baller and honestly I think he has given up on the coach(es) and it's showing.  He still however has more passion than a lot of them. 

[depthchart]

(11-06-2017, 04:57 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Y'all can hack on Pac all you want.... he may have dropped off a little as a corner, but in reality he is one of only a few players on this team that acts like they give a damn if they win or not.

I agree that Pac Man is a competitor & wants to win.

Wants respect and fights for it even to the point of a costly Playoff game penalty.

I'd take that over players that quit but both likely need to go.

A New Coaching Staff may need some authority to part ways with a player like Pac Man to bring in their own Culture.

Keeping Pac Man in 2018 would signal to me that Mike Brown is tweaking things rather than allowing a New Coach to shape things in his own image.

[bengals67]

The only chance for Bengals ( before lease expires and they move because of poor attendance and no new tax payer funded stadium) is to hire a coach with a  history of a winning attitude/experience/culture and then let him hire his entire staff, add scouts,  build practice facility and do what ever other top NFL or major college team would do.

This is never going to happen.

That Marv and Alexander are still employed as coaches and Bodine remains the center are exhibits 1,2 and 3.

[kevin]

(11-06-2017, 04:12 PM)depthchart Wrote: Sadly, I think Mike Brown is of the opinion that he can just "tweak" things with a few new coaches while not realizing that the whole Culture of the team needs changed.

That he made no mistakes himself in the area of providing talent for his coaches.

That he can over see a New Culture being created when he himself was the Architect of the Old Failed Culture.

Someone else has to create this New Culture without his Finger Prints being on it or it won't be New.

Already this turning into Pacman or Lewis and anything but Mike Brown.....I'm old, but not old enough to remember Paul Brown fired in Cleveland. I of course have heard a lot about it.   For the first time ever, I'm thinking and wishing their was a modern day Art Modell to FIRE Mike Brown.   You can't even say the game has changed and passed him by as Art tried to say about Paul Brown who is an Ohio State, Cleveland, Cincinnati Legend.  I will say Mike Brown isn't a Has Been, he's a Never Was.  His 27 years of futility speak for itself. ......No, the whole Art Modell and Paul Brown thing brought Paul Brown and Pro Football to Cincinnati.  Paul Brown insisted he be the owner and no more Art Modell types and for the 23 years Paul Brown owned the Bengals, we did have the Ohio Football Legend and he knew football.   The problem is Mike Brown inherited the same " I can't be fired " situation.   I really wish there was an Art Modell type to Fire Mike Brown.  I've never wished for an Art Modell type here before until this day.   Until then, it's all lipstick on a pig.

[depthchart]

(11-06-2017, 05:57 PM)bengals67 Wrote: The only chance for Bengals ( before lease expires and they move because of poor attendance and no new tax payer funded stadium) is to hire a coach with a  history of a winning attitude/experience/culture and then let him hire his entire staff, add scouts,  build practice facility and do what ever other top NFL or major college team would do.

This is never going to happen.

That Marv and Alexander are still employed as coaches and Bodine remains the center are exhibits 1,2 and 3.

Mike Brown has in a sense Planned for the possibility of this bad season by not having any Coaches under contract after this 2017 season.

Exactly what Mike Brown has in his head to do about it is the question.

We will likely get to see his idea of Change from the Marvin Era to something else but I have low hopes of what that Grand Plan ends up being.

[*bengalfan74*]

I 1000% agree the only thing that will make a difference with this team is a complete, wholesale, clean sweeping change. All coaches gone - a few players out.

I very seriously doubt MB will ever let it happen. Oh he may (I'll believe it when I see it) not renew Marvin's contract ? I just can't see him cleaning house and hiring a new HC and letting him hire his own staff. He's not going to allow anyone that much control !

And he's never going to allow the new HC to pick his own players totally on his own. Remember the Chris Henry incident ? I completely believe MB was the driving force behind standing pat with the crappy O-line this season.

So basically the only true hope we have is that a new HC can somehow wrangle some leverage away from MB. I'll believe it when I see it. I truly believe Mike thinks he's doing a good job as GM.

[Hammerstripes]

(11-06-2017, 06:52 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I 1000% agree the only thing that will make a difference with this team is a complete, wholesale, clean sweeping change. All coaches gone - a few players out.

I very seriously doubt MB will ever let it happen. Oh he may (I'll believe it when I see it) not renew Marvin's contract ? I just can't see him cleaning house and hiring a new HC and letting him hire his own staff. He's not going to allow anyone that much control !

And he's never going to allow the new HC to pick his own players totally on his own. Remember the Chris Henry incident ? I completely believe MB was the driving force behind standing pat with the crappy O-line this season.

So basically the only true hope we have is that a new HC can somehow wrangle some leverage away from MB. I'll believe it when I see it. I truly believe Mike thinks he's doing a good job as GM.

I'm pretty sure the next head coach will be able to hire his own staff since all of the coaches contracts are up.  That really doesn't give up that much control.

As for the O-line, probably have to blame Tobin and Alexander for that one.  They drafted 2 young tackles and put the plan in place to have them take over.  Decent plan, shitty players.

[BengalsRocker]

(11-06-2017, 06:57 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I'm pretty sure the next head coach will be able to hire his own staff since all of the coaches contracts are up.  That really doesn't give up that much control.

As for the O-line, probably have to blame Tobin and Alexander for that one.  They drafted 2 young tackles and put the plan in place to have them take over.  Decent plan, shitty players.

I believe Tobin needs to start taking some blame.

He got some admiration a while back but really has seemed to miss a lot lately.

Alexander will be asked "So Buddy...  ya want another go round?" from Brown.

He's a lifer.  No matter what else changes.

We can't nuke that friggin' cockroach.

[Bengalholic]

This offseason really would be the perfect opportunity to make some real changes, starting with the HC...and without any coaches under contract, it would be a chance to put together a staff with new personalities, new ideas, new voices and new approaches. 

[depthchart]

(11-06-2017, 07:21 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: This offseason really would be the perfect opportunity to make some real changes, starting with the HC...and without any coaches under contract, it would be a chance to put together a staff with new personalities, new ideas, new voices and new approaches. 

Mike Brown has actually teed the ball up for this kind of change by having Zero coaches under contract after 2017.

You would think his advancing age would be a motivator to make wide sweeping changes.

By choosing not to have coaches under contract he must have some kind of Master Plan in mind.

I think Changes are coming for sure and the more we lose the rest of the way out the greater the changes may be.

[MTBengalsFan]

(11-06-2017, 06:30 PM)depthchart Wrote: Mike Brown has in a sense Planned for the possibility of this bad season by not having any Coaches under contract after this 2017 season.

Exactly what Mike Brown has in his head to do about it is the question.

We will likely get to see his idea of Change from the Marvin Era to something else but I have low hopes of what that Grand Plan ends up being.

I find this whole thread really sad. I've followed the Bengals since the beginning. I no longer have any hope for the future of this team. Mike Brown will never change. He'll eventually hand the reigns to Katie, and it will be more of the same. Cheap SOB needs to hire a GM and step the *** out of the way. Marvin is a disaster of a head coach. I've got a friend who loves to remind me of how putrid they were before Marvin, and I respond with remembering two painful Super Bowl games, long before Marvin made making the playoffs completely acceptable. I predicted 5-11 to start the season after the Bengals didn't add any offensive linemen worth a damned and let our two best slip away.

I just don't see things getting better in the next couple of years. I would LOVE to be wrong. It sure isn't much fun to root for Cincy sports teams these days.

[kevin]

(11-06-2017, 07:37 PM)MTBengalsFan Wrote: I find this whole thread really sad. I've followed the Bengals since the beginning. I no longer have any hope for the future of this team. Mike Brown will never change. He'll eventually hand the reigns to Katie, and it will be more of the same. Cheap SOB needs to hire a GM and step the *** out of the way. Marvin is a disaster of a head coach. I've got a friend who loves to remind me of how putrid they were before Marvin, and I respond with remembering two painful Super Bowl games, long before Marvin made making the playoffs completely acceptable. I predicted 5-11 to start the season after the Bengals didn't add any offensive linemen worth a damned and let our two best slip away.

I just don't see things getting better in the next couple of years. I would LOVE to be wrong. It sure isn't much fun to root for Cincy sports teams these days.

OK you said it.  I considered going for the joke earlier.  You just said Mike Brown will hand the reigns to Katie, and it will be more of the same Cheap. .....Katie becoming lipstick on a pig.

OK, I will say the same for all of them. Mike Browns son. The grand kids. The great grand kids.  The nephews, the nieces, the married in to the family relatives.  Aunts and Uncles and the entire Clan.   So to Katie and the women of the world, I'll just say Katie is not the pig with lipstick. She is only part of the pig.  The real pig is the family nepotism on The Bengals.  It is the huge mistake of Paul Brown.  Now Paul Brown was being a good father and The Godfather as after Art Modell he set up another NFL team, still in Ohio, still with same initials as he wore his old CB cap in practice.  He set it up so he and his family would never lose the team to another Art Modell.  THE PROBLEM IS that was OK as long as Paul Brown was alive.  Once Paul Brown The Godfather died, there really is nobody in this family capable of running the family business.   From Mike Brown to Katie to all Mike Browns kids, to all the grandchildren, to all the great grandchildren.  To the married in laws, to all the Aunts, Uncles, Nephews, Nieces.  To the entire Family juiced in on the payroll in some title or another as if they know anything about football, AND THEY DON'T.    If you look at the Bengals Front Office, it is mostly all these relatives, on the payroll, with some front office job title after their names.  This does 3 things.  It gives all in this family a job no matter how stupid they are, like an elected official getting all his idiot relatives government civil service jobs, which is how most federal, state and local government jobs are filled.  The 2nd thing is it keeps the money in The Family Godfather Style.  The 3rd thing is it keeps the Bengals from winning. There are too many Bozo's on the Bus.   TOO MUCH NEPOTISM. 

So this Family Business built around Brown Family nepotism from Mike Brown down to great grand kids to some idiot moron married in IN-Law.   It's NOT GOOD.  In 27 years after Paul Brown died, not one play-off win.  THAT IS THE PIG....The entire Family that inherited Paul Browns team after he died.   This entire clan of relatives after the funeral is THE PIG.   They are the PIG because not a one of them has proven they have any business in an NFL Front Office with an NFL title after their name.  They wouldn't be in any NFL Front Office if not for being in The Family.  

So the Entire Brown Family is THE PIG....and you can change all the coaches....you can change all the players....IT'S BEEN DONE BEFORE.....A new coach would be the 6th coach after Paul Brown died from Wyche past Lewis.   A new quarterback would be, lets see, Boomer, Kilingler, Blake, Boomer, Smith, Kitna, Palmer, Dalton and there were others.  .....Lets just say since Paul Brown died they HAVE BLOWN IT UP many times with new coaches and new players.....BUT ALWAYS LIPSTICK ON THE PIG......ALWAYS LIPSTICK ON THE PIG......The PIG is the entire Brown family.   A family that did not get here on football knowledge.  They all have NFL job titles only because they are somehow in the family of the late and very dead Paul Brown.  The entire juiced in family is THE PIG and coaching and player changes is just more lipstick.  In 27 years this pig has worn a ton of lipstick. They are like the idiot civil service worker at the post office or BMV or other government jobs and you ask who in the world hired this idiot. Then you find out the idiot and every idiot in the family has government jobs because they are related to an elected official. Bengals Front Office is the same nepotism for all family idiots.

So talk of all new coaches, new QB, new players.....It's ALL LIPSTICK ON THE SAME OLD PIG.....and why I gave the OP rep points because he nailed it. Lipstick on a pig.......Everybody be Honest. If Mike Brown was not family and just a GM, wouldn't he have been fired long ago before Sam Wyche fired. At least before Dave Shula fired. You bet your corporate assets he would have been

PS ADDITION. In no way am I saying all government workers are related to an elected official or are idiots. Just as in the movie The Green Mile, the good workers know there are idiots in because they are related to somebody. So I'm not insulting all government workers and most of them are good postal workers and such, but even they know the juiced in dummies related to an elected official. The problem with Bengals is the nepotism starts and Mike Brown and down the family tree so much in the Front Office, and most NFL teams would have fired them long ago. WE have Mike Brown as President. We have Pete Brown as Senior Vice President and Player Personnel double dipping as a GM in payroll. We have Katie Brown Blackburn as Executive Vice President. We have Paul Brown Jr as Vice President and player personnel double dipping. We have Katie's Troy Blackburn as Vice President. There is an Andrew Brown as director of sales analytics. There is an Eric Brown as Managing Director of Paul Brown Stadium. My guess is if you look at it good, just about all of the aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces have a paycheck with Bengals. It's good for their family, it just keeps the team from ever winning. Too much nepotism, not enough people who really know NFL football.

[Daddy-O]

(11-06-2017, 04:57 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Y'all can hack on Pac all you want.... he may have dropped off a little as a corner, but in reality he is one of only a few players on this team that acts like they give a damn if they win or not.

Great, so Pac get's pissed off if they lose, so do I.

btw, Pac isn't doing anything anymore to prevent the losing.  Marv can take him and his other non-productive vets with him.

[depthchart]

(11-06-2017, 07:37 PM)MTBengalsFan Wrote: I find this whole thread really sad. I've followed the Bengals since the beginning. I no longer have any hope for the future of this team. Mike Brown will never change. He'll eventually hand the reigns to Katie, and it will be more of the same. Cheap SOB needs to hire a GM and step the *** out of the way. Marvin is a disaster of a head coach. I've got a friend who loves to remind me of how putrid they were before Marvin, and I respond with remembering two painful Super Bowl games, long before Marvin made making the playoffs completely acceptable. I predicted 5-11 to start the season after the Bengals didn't add any offensive linemen worth a damned and let our two best slip away.

I just don't see things getting better in the next couple of years. I would LOVE to be wrong. It sure isn't much fun to root for Cincy sports teams these days.

Mike Brown likely does not see himself as part of the problem which means no stepping back in any way on his part.

He likely sees the Glass as half full by focusing on positives. Like his pick of Carl Lawson in the Draft.

Mike likely gets goose bumps over that Lawson pick while learning little from losing Whitworth.

A selective Focus on positives while telling the Coaches that they have enough Talent on the Roster to win without Zeitler & Whitworth.

5 straight Playoff appearances, an 8 and 0 start and some Division titles likely dominate his mind as reasons why he himself is doing just Fine as a GM.

Therefore, in his mind, he just needs to Tweak things around him like maybe some of the Coaching Staff that he may now see as holding him back as a GM.