Who is more valuable in the open market, AJM or Dalton?

[thillan]

(11-08-2017, 12:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No he wasn't. 

... Yes, he was in talks for the MVP race. Regardless of placements, that's impressive. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-08-2017, 12:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No he wasn't. 

Yes, he was.

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000572299

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/183541/five-reasons-why-andy-dalton-is-the-leading-mvp-candidate

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2015/10/5/9454991/andy-dalton-tabbed-nfl-mvp-candidate

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/10/12/nfl-morning-after-andy-dalton-mvp-candidate/

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-mvp-projection-oddsmakers-make-andy-dalton-a-top-3-favorite/

https://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-5-players-most-likely-to-win-the-2015-mvp-award.html/?a=viewall

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Quote:Through the first four weeks of the season, Dalton has done something that only two other quarterbacks have done since the NFL-AFL merger in 1970: Put up a QB rating of at least 115.0 in his first four games.

[thillan]

(11-08-2017, 12:14 PM)I thinkWyche Wrote: Yes, he was.

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000572299

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/183541/five-reasons-why-andy-dalton-is-the-leading-mvp-candidate

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2015/10/5/9454991/andy-dalton-tabbed-nfl-mvp-candidate

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/10/12/nfl-morning-after-andy-dalton-mvp-candidate/

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-mvp-projection-oddsmakers-make-andy-dalton-a-top-3-favorite/

https://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-5-players-most-likely-to-win-the-2015-mvp-award.html/?a=viewall

This has to be one of the things I'm most upset about by far with this team. 2015 Andy Dalton was AWESOME, I felt so confident in him. Now, every time the ball goes in the air for a deep pass, I say to myself, "Yeah, that's probably going out of bounds." 

I mean, if he hits a wide open AJ Green on Sunday (who BURNED Ramsey on that play), we have a touchdown and he isn't so upset now. And we could possibly be going into the half with the lead. Instead, it sails out of bounds. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-08-2017, 12:21 PM)thillan Wrote: This has to be one of the things I'm most upset about by far with this team. 2015 Andy Dalton was AWESOME, I felt so confident in him. Now, every time the ball goes in the air for a deep pass, I say to myself, "Yeah, that's probably going out of bounds." 

I mean, if he hits a wide open AJ Green on Sunday (who BURNED Ramsey on that play), we have a touchdown and he isn't so upset now. And we could possibly be going into the half with the lead. Instead, it sails out of bounds. 

Yeah, I think he has gotten the "yips".  He's feeling pressure that isn't there at times, and is rushing EVERYTHING.  The thing that frustrates me is, this is essentially a replay of what we saw about ten years ago.  You have a QB that can't move very well (Palmer), and you let the line go to shit.  You now have a QB that struggles when under constant pressure, and you let the line go to shit.  I mean, do these guys not read the scouting reports on their OWN players?

EDIT: Let's not forget, at the beginning of 2016, he was still playing well. Put up 366 yds on the Jets in week 1 while being sacked 7 times. I think the constant hits have gotten to him, and thrown his internal clock all out of whack.....which has also affected his mechanics.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-08-2017, 12:21 PM)thillan Wrote: This has to be one of the things I'm most upset about by far with this team. 2015 Andy Dalton was AWESOME, I felt so confident in him. Now, every time the ball goes in the air for a deep pass, I say to myself, "Yeah, that's probably going out of bounds." 

I mean, if he hits a wide open AJ Green on Sunday (who BURNED Ramsey on that play), we have a touchdown and he isn't so upset now. And we could possibly be going into the half with the lead. Instead, it sails out of bounds. 

Which goes back to the OL problems. I can't help but wonder if Dalton isn't so worried about getting hit and sacked, he probably stands there and throws a beautiful bomb that drops into AJ's breadbasket. But, because the OL sucks more than a thread started by CornerBlitz, it's in his head messing up his internal clock and messing with his confidence levels. 

With that said, Dalton still needs to overcome those issues. He had time to make that throw and he has shown he can make that throw, so there's really no excuse for him missing that throw even if it just sounded like I was making an excuse for him; I was giving a reason for the overthrow, not an excuse. I'm not absolving Dalton of a bad pass. He threw a bad pass. But, there's a reason why he did. That's all I'm saying. Am I rambling? I feel like I'm rambling. You guys would tell me if I'm rambling, right? 'Cause I don't like when other people ramble and I don't want to be a hypocrite by rambling myself. Okay, now I'm definitely rambling. Anyway ... how's the weather for you guys?

BTW, CornerBlitz, I'm just messing with you. Not all your threads suck. This one definitely does, though. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-08-2017, 12:14 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yes, he was.

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000572299

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/183541/five-reasons-why-andy-dalton-is-the-leading-mvp-candidate

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2015/10/5/9454991/andy-dalton-tabbed-nfl-mvp-candidate

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/10/12/nfl-morning-after-andy-dalton-mvp-candidate/

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-mvp-projection-oddsmakers-make-andy-dalton-a-top-3-favorite/

https://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-5-players-most-likely-to-win-the-2015-mvp-award.html/?a=viewall

Don't have time to read through all that stuff but didn't the Panthers start like 8 or 9-0 that year as well along with Newton putting up better numbers he would have had to been the frontrunner for the entirety of that season. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-08-2017, 12:34 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Don't have time to read through all that stuff but didn't the Panthers start like 8 or 9-0 that year as well along with Newton putting up better numbers he would have had to been the frontrunner for the entirety of that season. 

Newton didn't have better numbers.  Read the quote I posted above.  Brady was leading at the stage when most of this was printed, but even PFT insinuated that Dalton was having the best season of anyone.......but don't move the goalposts Nic....14 was still a frontrunner in the MVP discussion in 2015 until the injury.

[Brownshoe]

(11-08-2017, 12:34 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Don't have time to read through all that stuff but didn't the Panthers start like 8 or 9-0 that year as well along with Newton putting up better numbers he would have had to been the frontrunner for the entirety of that season. 

Newton didn't even have a good start to the season that year honestly. His first 8 games in 2015 he had 53% comp, 1820 yards, 14 TDs, 9 INTs, 81.3 rating. That's pretty bad TBH. His defense was reason why he was even doing good so far that year.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-08-2017, 12:55 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Newton didn't even have a good start to the season that year honestly. His first 8 games in 2015 he had 53% comp, 1820 yards, 14 TDs, 9 INTs, 81.3 rating. That's pretty bad TBH. His defense was reason why he was even doing good so far that year.

IIRC, Newton and Wilson both exploded in the 2nd half of that season, while Dalton got injured. 

Dalton was on pace for 4,255 yards, 37 TDs (he had 25 passing and 3 rushing after 12 games), with the best passer rating in the NFL before he went down. On one of the hottest teams in the NFL. Had he finished out the season, he would've been a top 4 candidate along with Newton, Wilson and Brady.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-08-2017, 02:25 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: IIRC, Newton and Wilson both exploded in the 2nd half of that season, while Dalton got injured. 

Dalton was on pace for 4,255 yards, 37 TDs (he had 25 passing and 3 rushing after 12 games), with the best passer rating in the NFL before he went down. On one of the hottest teams in the NFL. Had he finished out the season, he would've been a top 4 candidate along with Newton, Wilson and Brady.

Here is what PFT had to say after week 5 regarding projections:

Quote: Dalton is on pace to finish this season with a career-high 35 touchdown passes, a career-high 4,858 yards, a career-high 67.5 percent completion rate and a career-low six interceptions.

[muskiesfan]

I'm not sure why I bothered voting because this is absolutely ridiculous. No way McCarron would bring in more than Dalton. We're comparing apples to oranges at best and it's not even close. Why does anyone think that an unproven, career back-up is going to bring in more than a proven starter?

Who would bring a bigger return in a trade, Joey Votto or Gavin LaValley? That question is on par with this one.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-08-2017, 02:28 PM)Wyche Wrote: Here is what PFT had to say after week 5 regarding projections:

He mostly maintained that pace. My projections were based on his numbers through the first 12 weeks. Not including the Pitt game because it was only 1 drive.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-08-2017, 02:29 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I'm not sure why I bothered voting because this is absolutely ridiculous. No way McCarron would bring in more than Dalton. We're comparing apples to oranges at best and it's not even close. Why does anyone think that an unproven, career back-up is going to bring in more than a proven starter?

Who would bring a bigger return in a trade, Joey Votto or Gavin LaValley? That question is on par with this one.

The only thing Mac has on Dalton is his age...and he's not even much younger. 3 years.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-08-2017, 02:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: He mostly maintained that pace. My projections were based on his numbers through the first 12 weeks. Not including the Pitt game because it was only 1 drive.

Gotcha, I figured yours were from later in the season.  Too bad they lost him on that fluke play.  I fully believe we would have secured the bye, and the wild card game against Pitt never happens.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-08-2017, 02:36 PM)Wyche Wrote: Gotcha, I figured yours were from later in the season.  Too bad they lost him on that fluke play.  I fully believe we would have secured the bye, and the wild card game against Pitt never happens.

Hard telling how the rest of that Pitt game goes. Dalton getting hurt really had a huge affect on that game.

I think he beats Denver, and I know he torches SF and that cruddy Baltimore team.

[*bfine32*]

2 things:

Andy would bring more on the open Market

Andy had a fine season in 2015. It was Carson Palmer's 2005.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Of course Dalton, he has shown he is at the very least an average starting QB in the NFL that can win games
and has played at an elite level when he had a decent O-line and good weapons.

AJM played like shit this Preseason.

Don't know why Hue and the Browns would offer as much as they did. The guy in their FO saved their ass by
not sending the papers to the right place lol

[CornerBlitz]

Everyone always brings up 2015. Yes, he was great for 3/4 of a season. I was on the bandwagon. How's he been doing the last two seasons?

His value right now is at an all time low. People that think we'd get multiple first and second round picks are on one.

What team right now at this moment would offer a first and second round pick?

[Fan_in_Kettering]

There is a YouTube video out there of Andy Dalton in 2015. He was outrageously good.