I keep hearing that Marvin and Dalton are the problem

[THE PISTONS]

(11-09-2017, 04:06 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Merv is responsible for putting the best guys out there. Merv is responsible for the draft and he has enough clout to get Brown to go out and get people. It may not be Merv's fault that both Zeitler and Whit signed elsewhere, but I don't see why he didn't get Brown to go out and get guys to replacem them. I firmly believe that Merv thought Og and Fisher would be "good enough". 

So you think fixing the line was as easy as Marvin asking MB to go sign a couple of quality guys?

That's pretty funny. You think Marvin wanted to ride into the season with the guys we had?

[*PhilHos*]

(11-09-2017, 04:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So you think fixing the line was as easy as Marvin asking MB to go sign a couple of quality guys?

That's pretty funny. You think Marvin wanted to ride into the season with the guys we had?

No, I don't think it's as easy as just signing a couple of guys, but the fact that they didn't ATTEMPT to sign someone else suggests that they (Brown and Merv) were willing to go with the guys we had. 

[eoxyod]

(11-09-2017, 12:36 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Is Marvin a great coach? No. But he took a team that was as bad as the Browns are now to respectable.

Irrelevant. He's had too much time to just let us be respectable. It's a defeatist attitude that makes negative sense. People are too afraid of change and taking a chance, so we are okay in mediocrity. 

Is Dalton a great QB? No. But he plays for a team that can't run the ball, doesn't invest in interior offensive line, and retains poor coaches.

A QB that only operates under perfect conditions is not a good QB. He's average. You are significantly less likely to win with an average QB

We have a bad coach and owner, those are not 2 mutually exclusive concepts. We can't control who owns the team so we can go after what we can control, and there is more than Mike Brown that needs to be changed.

[nickndfl]

                 OL practice pictures. Hope they get it done against the Titans.

[THE PISTONS]

It would be funny if Marvin ended up coaching the Browns or Ravens.

[CornerBlitz]

(11-09-2017, 01:13 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The thing is, Marvin did have success, in terms of the regular season and reaching the playoffs...including a very impressive 5 year run.

The problem is, that as a coach, he hasn't shown himself to be capable of taking a team to the next step, or to regularly compete when the lights are the brightest.

Had he been able to win a couple of those playoff games, we would probably being viewing him much differently. Instead, he - and his teams - have failed on every occasion.

At some point, despite the owner or other obstacles, he has been in position to change his own narrative multiple times and hasn't been able to do so. IMO, he's an OK coach, capable of building a roster and creating a certain level of success...but that's where he plateaus, and any hopes of getting beyond that point fall victim to his limitations as HC.

Very well put. I still believe that Marvin is a good enough coach where if he was blessed with a great QB, they'd do just fine. I think with a mediocre QB and mediocre coordinators, Marvin can't coach this team to victories like other elite coaches.

[Circleville Guy]

(11-09-2017, 12:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes. I'm not convinced he'd be a great HC...but if you put him on the Steelers I think he'd have similar success to Tomlin. They're VERY similar coaches.

This is a franchise that has playoff games in 3 of 49 seasons. It's the Siberia of the NFL.

To me Tomlin looks intense and Marvin acts like a pushover.

[Circleville Guy]

Oh, and Marvin would still lose close games due to his clock mismanagement.

[Shake n Blake]

1. Marvin is a solid coach and talent evaluator.

2. Mary's 8-30 prime time record and 0-7 playoff record didn't happen by accident. Those are more a Marvin issue than a Mike Brown issue.

3. Sure, Mike Brown has hindered Marv by not building a practice facility, avoiding FA and having a tiny scouting department. Those things have held us back.

4. That said...We've had the talent to win. How so many 10+ win teams could fail so consistently against the Steelers, and in big games (prime time/playoff) is mind boggling. The numbers are there though. Hard not to blame Marv for that.

5. Sure, any coach is going to be hindered by Mike Brown, but if the talent is there (it has been, probably 7-8 times)...you have to capitalize. Marv has been incapable of doing that. To say the least.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-10-2017, 12:22 AM)Circleville Guy Wrote: To me Tomlin looks intense and Marvin acts like a pushover.

Honestly, I don't think the Steelers ever would've hired Marv, and mentality is probably why. Marv is nothing like Chin or Tomlin.

[The Caped Crusader]

I'd happily take Marvin for GM. I'd also happily take someone else as coach...

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-10-2017, 12:08 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Very well put. I still believe that Marvin is a good enough coach where if he was blessed with a great QB, they'd do just fine. I think with a mediocre QB and mediocre coordinators, Marvin can't coach this team to victories like other elite coaches.

Why? He had Carson Palmer, and he still choked. He always has. Against top flight teams, Lewis' teams always look flat, ill prepared, and never adjust.  Uf we run out to a big lead early....we can win, otherwise we're in trouble.  I guess if Merv had red hair....you'd be blaming him....lol.

[Daddy-O]

(11-09-2017, 01:07 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Who do you replace Bodine with? The front office is the ones who should bring someone else in.

re: Bodine - We have 1st and 2nd Round picks who can't start Day 1. Yet Bodine gets drafted as a 4th Round pick and handed the starting job. They didn't look to free agency for competition.

Thought Marvie was part of the front office.  Not.  The notion that he wrestled some control away from Mike Brown is ludicrous.  Marvie knows how important and OL is or he shouldn't be coaching.

Bottom line is Marvie has no say other than which rookies to sit on game day.  

Face it Bengals fans every year is Groundhog Day.

[*Synric*]

(11-10-2017, 02:33 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Honestly, I don't think the Steelers ever would've hired Marv, and mentality is probably why. Marv is nothing like Chin or Tomlin.

I've always thought Tomlin was way overrated and is given credit for some some excellent coordinators. 

[Hoofhearted]

(11-10-2017, 04:15 AM)Wyche Wrote: Why? He had Carson Palmer, and he still choked. He always has. Against top flight teams, Lewis' teams always look flat, ill prepared, and never adjust.  Uf we run out to a big lead early....we can win, otherwise we're in trouble.  I guess if Merv had red hair....you'd be blaming him....lol.

I wonder how Marv would do in the college ranks?

[THE PISTONS]

(11-10-2017, 09:56 AM)Synric Wrote: I've always thought Tomlin was way overrated and is given credit for some some excellent coordinators. 

I agree...but really excellent coordinators is almost as important as the HC. You need good ones.

The Bengals just slide the next man in position when one leaves.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-10-2017, 09:56 AM)Synric Wrote: I've always thought Tomlin was way overrated and is given credit for some some excellent coordinators. 

Kinda like Merv?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-10-2017, 10:32 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I agree...but really excellent coordinators is almost as important as the HC. You need good ones.

The Bengals just slide the next man in position when one leaves.

Not always, Zimmer and Gruden come to mind.....and not coincidentally, those were some good years for the Bengals offensively and defensively.....and I feel Hue was a good move to replace Jay.  Other than that, you're right, and the struggles show it.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-10-2017, 10:10 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I wonder how Marv would do in the college ranks?

I dunno, rah rah type shit seems to go hand in hand at that level......we no Merv ain't no rah rah guy.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-10-2017, 12:08 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Very well put. I still believe that Marvin is a good enough coach where if he was blessed with a great QB, they'd do just fine. I think with a mediocre QB and mediocre coordinators, Marvin can't coach this team to victories like other elite coaches.

That's right, Merv's not to blame. It's not like Merv has the authority to chose his own coordinators. It's not like Merv is the one who forces his coordinators to not make halftime adjustments. I't not like Merv is the one who routinely kneels and/or calls nothing but run plays at the end of the first half, regardless of score. It's not like Merv is the one who stops being aggressive after getting a lead.

But, in all seriousness, I do agree with you that Dalton is a great QB and once we fix the offensive line, we'll start to win again whether under Merv or someone else.