The 2012 draft was a masterclass by the front office

[BritishBengal]

The rise of Dre Kirkpatrick is, for me, one of the most exciting storylines coming into this new season. I'll be the first to admit that I hated that pick 3 years ago. I thought he looked stiff on tape and relied heavily on Mark Barron making plays to atone for his mistakes. As the seasons passed it looked like Dre might become another ill-judged Bengals 1st round draft selection as injuries and inconsistent play de-railed his impact. Then BAM! The end of last season the guy exploded. Making crucial game-changing plays and looking far more solid than in seasons past. This renaissance of sorts seems to be continuing, as this offseason his growing confidence and stellar play shines through, attracting positive attention from those close to the team. It is fair to say there is a buzz about him.

This made me, out of curiosity, look back at the 2012 draft. The more I delved into it the more I realise this, perhaps even more than the 2011 draft, was the moment this team escaped its mundane and underwhelming past.

The players selected that draft were as follows:
1)Dre Kirkpatrick*
2)Kevin Zeitler*
3)Devon Still
4)Mohammed Sanu
5)Brandon Thompson*
6)Orson Charles
7)Shaun Prater
8)Marvin Jones*
9)George Illoka*
10)Dan Herron

I'll start with those players that didn't make it. As a 2nd overall pick, on the field, Still has been a disappointment. Off it of course he has been an inspiration and hero. Which leads to an interesting thought of whether, in reality, this was the real steal of the draft. Orson Charles showed talent but (rightly or wrongly) didn't stick around. Prater too showed a lot of talent but injuries set him back, he has been with the Vikings and now Zim since 2013. Boom Herron didn't show it here but had a great run with the Colts last year and showed that he too was probably a smart pick.

Next lets look at the pick in the 3rd Sanu has been a solid role player, and about as much as you would expect from a 3rd round pick. A good red-zone threat and a multi-talented player (perfect passer).

You'll notice the players asterisked. This is because all these selections came about directly or indirectly from smart moves made by the front office. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I will use it. Looking at the other corners that went before and after Kirkpatrick (Morris Claibourne, Stephon Gilmore, Janoris Jenkins, Casey Hayward, Trumaine Johnson, Josh Robinson) you could argue Dre has a shot at becoming the best corner of that class. This pick as we know was a result of the Palmer trade, Dre was an Oakland pick. The selection of Zeitler came as a result of a trade down with New England. They took the talented Chandler Jones, but at the time we were in the market for O-line help. Many were horrified when we passed on DeCastro, but in truth Zeitler has probably had the better career thus far. Not only this but in moving down the Bengals aquired an extra 3rd round pick, a pick that would turn into Brandon Thompson. The 5th round was a triumph. Marvin Jones came thanks to traded Chad to the Pats, and Illoka thanks to trading Keith Rivers to the Giants. Both Keith and Chad are now out of the NFL. That year we didn't have a 7th round pick because that was traded with David Jones for Reggie Nelson. Our 7th round pick that year became Jeris Pendleton a DT who has only seen one regular season game with the Colts.

If you look at it, the picks we had that were our own that year all flopped other than Sanu. In 2012 and 2013 the Bengals turned;

David Jones
Keith Rivers
Chad Johnson
Carson Palmer

into

Reggie Nelson
Dre Kirkpatrick
Brandon Thompson
Marvin Jones
Gio Bernard-Part of the Palmer trade, 2nd round in 2013
Cobi Hamilton-Part of the Chad trade, 6th round in 2013

We often give this organisation a lot of stick in the way it deals with personnel and being 'conservative' in FA. However when you stop and think about what it has done, rather quietly, these last few years, you can understand why. It managed with a few moves in 2012 to assemble a core of young players (and Reggie) that have been the foundations to a lot of recent success.

Here is to another successful year!

[XenoMorph]

2nd rounder turn out to be a bust

DAvid jones for nelson was 2010...

Ocho trade was 2011.. so was keith rivers

[BritishBengal]

(08-19-2015, 10:56 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: 2nd rounder turn out to be a bust

DAvid jones for nelson was 2010...

Ocho trade was 2011..  so was keith rivers

I realise that those two trades were earlier. But the culmination of the two was in 2012, as it was in 2012 we drafted Illoka and in 2012 that the 7th round pick we gave up for Nelson was drafted. I wasn't being totally exact but I think it represents a key year, when a lot of the pieces of the puzzle came together.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Boy......Iloka and Marvin Jones were the steal of that draft.....

[BayouBengal]

I agree that was an awesome draft year, good read.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-19-2015, 12:46 PM)BayouBengal Wrote: I agree that was an awesome draft year, good read.

Indeed it was.....and if Dre continues to flourish....it's a grand slam.

[Shake n Blake]

Call me a hater, but I'm not quite as impressed by the '12 draft. Don't get me wrong, I think it was a good draft, but I don't see it as the grand slam, genius draft that OP does.

1)Dre Kirkpatrick
2)Kevin Zeitler
3)Devon Still
4)Mohammed Sanu
5)Brandon Thompson
6)Orson Charles
7)Shaun Prater
8)Marvin Jones
9)George Illoka
10)Dan Herron

Of these picks, only the 5 I bolded were hits IMO. Of those 5, only Zeitler and maybe Iloka have been studs (so far). Out of 10 draft picks, that's solid, but I don't think it's amazing or anything. If DreKirk and MJ take another step this year, it'll look better.

Still, Thompson, and Charles were whiffs with quality picks, but MJ and Iloka help make up for that. We did get great value for Palmer, but I think that wasn't so much Mike Brown's genius as it was the stupidity/desperation of the Raiders.

Considering that we had an extra 1st, 3rd, and a pair of extra 5ths, I think this draft was pretty average.

[XenoMorph]

(08-19-2015, 01:24 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Call me a hater, but I'm not quite as impressed by the '12 draft. Don't get me wrong, I think it was a good draft, but I don't see it as the grand slam, genius draft that OP does.

1)Dre Kirkpatrick
2)Kevin Zeitler
3)Devon Still
4)Mohammed Sanu
5)Brandon Thompson
6)Orson Charles
7)Shaun Prater
8)Marvin Jones
9)George Illoka
10)Dan Herron

Of these picks, only the 5 I bolded were hits IMO. Of those 5, only Zeitler and maybe Iloka have been studs (so far). Out of 10 draft picks, that's solid, but I don't think it's amazing or anything. If DreKirk and MJ take another step this year, it'll look better.

Still, Thompson, and Charles were whiffs with quality picks, but MJ and Iloka help make up for that. We did get great value for Palmer, but I think that wasn't so much Mike Brown's genius as it was the stupidity/desperation of the Raiders.

Considering that we had an extra 1st, 3rd, and a pair of extra 5ths, I think this draft was pretty average.

while they arent with us anymore i believe Herron is still on the colts and Prater the Vikings.

But i agree it wasnt a grand slam by any means.

[Shake n Blake]

(08-19-2015, 01:27 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: while they arent with us anymore i believe Herron is still on the colts and Prater the Vikings.

But i agree it wasnt a grand slam by any means.

Still and Thompson are still here. Charles is with the Saints. I still don't count these players as good draft picks.

Herron did burn us for 141 yards and a TD in the playoffs though. 

[Luvnit2]

(08-19-2015, 10:13 AM)BritishBengal Wrote: The rise of Dre Kirkpatrick is, for me, one of the most exciting storylines coming into this new season. I'll be the first to admit that I hated that pick 3 years ago. I thought he looked stiff on tape and relied heavily on Mark Barron making plays to atone for his mistakes. As the seasons passed it looked like Dre might become another ill-judged Bengals 1st round draft selection as injuries and inconsistent play de-railed his impact. Then BAM! The end of last season the guy exploded. Making crucial game-changing plays and looking far more solid than in seasons past. This renaissance of sorts seems to be continuing, as this offseason his growing confidence and stellar play shines through, attracting positive attention from those close to the team. It is fair to say there is a buzz about him.

This made me, out of curiosity, look back at the 2012 draft. The more I delved into it the more I realise this, perhaps even more than the 2011 draft, was the moment this team escaped its mundane and underwhelming past.

The players selected that draft were as follows:
1)Dre Kirkpatrick*
2)Kevin Zeitler*
3)Devon Still
4)Mohammed Sanu
5)Brandon Thompson*
6)Orson Charles
7)Shaun Prater
8)Marvin Jones*
9)George Illoka*
10)Dan Herron

I'll start with those players that didn't make it. As a 2nd overall pick, on the field, Still has been a disappointment. Off it of course he has been an inspiration and hero. Which leads to an interesting thought of whether, in reality, this was the real steal of the draft. Orson Charles showed talent but (rightly or wrongly) didn't stick around. Prater too showed a lot of talent but injuries set him back, he has been with the Vikings and now Zim since 2013. Boom Herron didn't show it here but had a great run with the Colts last year and showed that he too was probably a smart pick.

Next lets look at the pick in the 3rd Sanu has been a solid role player, and about as much as you would expect from a 3rd round pick. A good red-zone threat and a multi-talented player (perfect passer).

You'll notice the players asterisked. This is because all these selections came about directly or indirectly from smart moves made by the front office. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I will use it. Looking at the other corners that went before and after Kirkpatrick (Morris Claibourne, Stephon Gilmore, Janoris Jenkins, Casey Hayward, Trumaine Johnson, Josh Robinson) you could argue Dre has a shot at becoming the best corner of that class. This pick as we know was a result of the Palmer trade, Dre was an Oakland pick. The selection of Zeitler came as a result of a trade down with New England. They took the talented Chandler Jones, but at the time we were in the market for O-line help. Many were horrified when we passed on DeCastro, but in truth Zeitler has probably had the better career thus far. Not only this but in moving down the Bengals aquired an extra 3rd round pick, a pick that would turn into Brandon Thompson. The 5th round was a triumph. Marvin Jones came thanks to traded Chad to the Pats, and Illoka thanks to trading Keith Rivers to the Giants. Both Keith and Chad are now out of the NFL. That year we didn't have a 7th round pick because that was traded with David Jones for Reggie Nelson. Our 7th round pick that year became Jeris Pendleton a DT who has only seen one regular season game with the Colts.

If you look at it, the picks we had that were our own that year all flopped other than Sanu. In 2012 and 2013 the Bengals turned;

David Jones
Keith Rivers
Chad Johnson
Carson Palmer

into

Reggie Nelson
Dre Kirkpatrick
Brandon Thompson
Marvin Jones
Gio Bernard-Part of the Palmer trade, 2nd round in 2013
Cobi Hamilton-Part of the Chad trade, 6th round in 2013

We often give this organisation a lot of stick in the way it deals with personnel and being 'conservative' in FA. However when you stop and think about what it has done, rather quietly, these last few years, you can understand why. It managed with a few moves in 2012 to assemble a core of young players (and Reggie) that have been the foundations to a lot of recent success.

Here is to another successful year!

great factual analysis

[djs7685]

Wow.

Anyone claiming that this draft was anything short of great needs to go look at your average draft for any team around the league.

Go to Wikipedia, type in a random season and random team, look at their draft, and then come back here and let me know what you think. Here are a few examples, I just put in a recent year and picked a team off the top of my head. I tried to not pick teams that have been just BAD at drafting either to make it fair.

2013 Detroit Lions
Ezekiel Ansah
Darius Slay
Larry Warford
Devin Taylor
Sam Martin
Corey Fuller
Theo Riddick
Michael Williams
Brandon Hepburn

2012 New England Patriots
Chandler Jones
Dont'a Hightower
Tavon Wilson
Jake Bequette
Nate Ebner
Alfonzo Dennard
Jeremy Ebert

2011 San Francisco 49ers
Aldon Smith
Colin Kaepernick
Chris Culliver
Kendall Hunter
Daniel Kilgore
Ronald Johnson
Colin Jones
Bruce Miller
Mike Person
Curtis Holcomb

2012 San Diego Chargers
Melvin Ingram
Kendall Reyes
Brandon Taylor
Ladarius Green
Johnnie Troutman
David Molk
Edwin Baker

2012 Baltimore Ravens
Courtney Upshaw
Kelechi Osemele
Bernard Pierce
Gino Gradkowski
Christian Thompson
Asa Jackson
Tommy Streeter
DeAngelo Tyson

[djs7685]

The fact that we drafted 2 guys that are both top 10 at their position in the same draft has to be pretty good, right? Zeitler and Iloka.

That's without mentioning that Sanu, MLJ, Dre Kirkpatrick, and Brandon Thompson all are somewhere between solid role players (Sanu/BT) to potentially great (MLJ/Dre).

I think people are overestimating what you're supposed to get out of a draft class. 2012 was nothing short of a home run, and has potential to be even better if more of these guys pan out as it seems they are going to.

[Shake n Blake]

(08-19-2015, 01:51 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Wow.

Anyone claiming that this draft was anything short of great needs to go look at your average draft for any team around the league.

Go to Wikipedia, type in a random season and random team, look at their draft, and then come back here and let me know what you think. Here are a few examples, I just put in a recent year and picked a team off the top of my head. I tried to not pick teams that have been just BAD at drafting either to make it fair.

2013 Detroit Lions
Ezekiel Ansah
Darius Slay
Larry Warford
Devin Taylor
Sam Martin
Corey Fuller
Theo Riddick
Michael Williams
Brandon Hepburn

2012 New England Patriots
Chandler Jones
Dont'a Hightower
Tavon Wilson
Jake Bequette
Nate Ebner
Alfonzo Dennard
Jeremy Ebert

2011 San Francisco 49ers
Aldon Smith
Colin Kaepernick
Chris Culliver
Kendall Hunter
Daniel Kilgore
Ronald Johnson
Colin Jones
Bruce Miller
Mike Person
Curtis Holcomb

2012 San Diego Chargers
Melvin Ingram
Kendall Reyes
Brandon Taylor
Ladarius Green
Johnnie Troutman
David Molk
Edwin Baker

2012 Baltimore Ravens
Courtney Upshaw
Kelechi Osemele
Bernard Pierce
Gino Gradkowski
Christian Thompson
Asa Jackson
Tommy Streeter
DeAngelo Tyson

1. You're ignoring the fact that we had an extra 1st, 3rd, and a pair of extra 5ths to work with. So comparing it to these other drafts isn't exactly fair.

2. If you're counting Brandon Thompson as a good pick then maybe you're being a little biased. Thompson is possibly on the bubble this year and he's had a very underwhelming career thus far.

3. In 2012, all 10 of our picks were in the first 6 rounds. We had 5 players that look good IMO. That's a 50% success rate. In the previous draft, we had 6 picks in the first 6 rounds. We got AJ, Dalton and Boling out of it. The success rate was the same and the players were better.

4. Just looking at the Lions draft you listed, Ansah, Slay and Warford have been starters. Taylor and Riddick have contributed as much as Thompson has for us. Sam Martin has been their punter since he was drafted. I'm not going to go through each of these other teams, but I see plenty of contributors mixed in. 

If you actually watched some of these other teams year round like you do the Bengals, I have a feeling that you'd feel differently about their players. Just because you don't recognize their names doesn't mean they're no good. A Lions fan may look at names like Iloka and Zeitler and feel the same way you do when looking over the drafts of these other teams.

[Luvnit2]

(08-19-2015, 01:54 PM)djs7685 Wrote: The fact that we drafted 2 guys that are both top 10 at their position in the same draft has to be pretty good, right? Zeitler and Iloka.

That's without mentioning that Sanu, MLJ, Dre Kirkpatrick, and Brandon Thompson all are somewhere between solid role players (Sanu/BT) to potentially great (MLJ/Dre).

I think people are overestimating what you're supposed to get out of a draft class. 2012 was nothing short of a home run, and has potential to be even better if more of these guys pan out as it seems they are going to.

All solid points and yes this was a great draft and shocking Shake (very knowledgeable poster) disagreed

The better the team, the harder for any draft pick to make an instant. For example Bodine started immediately due to no competition. But, he was one of the worst centers last year in the NFL.

Some fans equate draft pick success to starting immediately and that can be far from the case. Dre has not started due to being behind 3 #1 draft pick CB's his 1st 3 years. He very well could have started immediately on teams weak at CB like both the Steelers and the Ravens or others. But, he had some injuries early and then he had to beat out 3 solid CB's. He has to beat another one in Dennard right now as well. It appears he has beat out 30 year old and highly paid Leon Hall on the outside.

I hope each draft yields us 2 to 3 on the 53 man roster and a few practice squad players because the Bengals also are signing their young players to second contracts (keeping their own) which means less open spots on the roster and PS.

[Shake n Blake]

(08-19-2015, 02:16 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: All solid points and yes this was a great draft and shocking Shake (very knowledgeable poster) disagreed

The better the team, the harder for any draft pick to make an instant. For example Bodine started immediately due to no competition. But, he was one of the worst centers last year in the NFL.

Some fans equate draft pick success to starting immediately and that can be far from the case. Dre has not started due to being behind 3 #1 draft pick CB's his 1st 3 years. He very well could have started immediately on teams weak at CB like both the Steelers and the Ravens or others. But, he had some injuries early and then he had to beat out 3 solid CB's. He has to beat another one in Dennard right now as well. It appears he has beat out 30 year old and highly paid Leon Hall on the outside.

I hope each draft yields us 2 to 3 on the 53 man roster and a few practice squad players because the Bengals also are signing their young players to second contracts (keeping their own) which means less open spots on the roster and PS.

I think I'm being very reasonable here. I said it was a good draft. I just don't think it's quite as awesome as some. I count DreKirk as a solid choice, and I realize that injuries and (perhaps) competition at the position have kept him off the field. So I don't count him as a bad pick at all. I just don't count him as a big home run yet. 

Maybe you worded it wrong, but I don't see how you expect only 2 or 3 draft picks to make the 53 man roster. Teams rarely cut players taken in the first 5 rounds. You don't see 4th or 5th rounders on Practice Squads very often, either. So in reality, usually around 5 rookies will make the 53 man every year. I expect 2-3 players from every draft to (eventually) become serious contributors. 

That's very realistic normally, but in 2012 we had 9 picks in the first 5 rounds. So my expectations were raised for that draft. With 4 extra quality picks, I expect a couple more contributors. We got them. So like I said, solid draft. Not a home run though. We should expect 5 contributors with that many extra picks in quality rounds.

[djs7685]

(08-19-2015, 02:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. You're ignoring the fact that we had an extra 1st, 3rd, and a pair of extra 5ths to work with. So comparing it to these other drafts isn't exactly fair.

2. If you're counting Brandon Thompson as a good pick then maybe you're being a little biased. Thompson is possibly on the bubble this year and he's had a very underwhelming career thus far.

3. In 2012, all 10 of our picks were in the first 6 rounds. We had 5 players that look good IMO. That's a 50% success rate. In the previous draft, we had 6 picks in the first 6 rounds. We got AJ, Dalton and Boling out of it. The success rate was the same and the players were better.

4. Just looking at the Lions draft you listed, Ansah, Slay and Warford have been starters. Taylor and Riddick have contributed as much as Thompson has for us. Sam Martin has been their punter since he was drafted. I'm not going to go through each of these other teams, but I see plenty of contributors mixed in. 

If you actually watched some of these other teams year round like you do the Bengals, I have a feeling that you'd feel differently about their players. Just because you don't recognize their names doesn't mean they're no good. A Lions fan may look at names like Iloka and Zeitler and feel the same way you do when looking over the drafts of these other teams.

I didn't say Brandon Thompson was a good pick, just that he was a solid contributor. If you don't remember, he filled in when Geno was injured and played just fine. I don't think he's a "good" player on the list, but he's worth mentioning moreso than a guy that didn't even make the team the year he was drafted like some of these others on the lists.

Using 2011 to somehow diminish 2012 doesn't make much sense. Why can't they both be GOOD drafts? They were, not just one of them, they were both very good draft classes. Kirkpatrick, Zeitler, Sanu, Jones, and Iloka coming out of the same draft class is impressive whether we had 10 picks in the first 3 rounds or in the first 7 rounds. I don't see why you're using these weird qualifiers to diminish this draft class. So what if we had 10 picks in the first round alone? The success rate for your average draft pick isn't very high, the fact that we got 2 top 10 (arguably top 5) guys at G and S, along with a solid #2 WR, solid #3 WR, and potential #1 CB is pretty much absurd and unheard of.

I watch tons of football around the league, I recognize a lot of those names and even remember when some of them came out of college, so it's not global name recognition I'm looking for. I also NEVER said the drafts that I posted as my examples were bad. I was merely using random team's drafts as examples of what your average draft is going to look like. Some of them were solid, others were very lacking. Even the teams that "draft well" don't have a very high success rate overall, you're bound to miss sometimes. Some of the guys on those lists were starters, but were they good starters? I think you're barking up the wrong tree if you want to insinuate that I need to learn more about other teams. I'm not your average Bengals fan that doesn't pay attention to sports outside of this team, I probably know more about the Raiders than some folks living in Oakland, and they're probably my least favorite team to watch.

[Luvnit2]

(08-19-2015, 02:35 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think I'm being very reasonable here. I said it was a good draft. I just don't think it's quite as awesome as some. I count DreKirk as a solid choice, and I realize that injuries and (perhaps) competition at the position have kept him off the field. So I don't count him as a bad pick at all. I just don't count him as a big home run yet. 

Maybe you worded it wrong, but I don't see how you expect only 2 or 3 draft picks to make the 53 man roster. Teams rarely cut players taken in the first 5 rounds. You don't see 4th or 5th rounders on Practice Squads very often, either.  So in reality, usually around 5 rookies will make the 53 man every year. I expect 2-3 players from every draft to (eventually) become serious contributors. 

That's very realistic normally, but in 2012 we had 9 picks in the first 5 rounds. So my expectations were raised for that draft. With 4 extra quality picks, I expect a couple more contributors. We got them. So like I said, solid draft. Not a home run though. We should expect 5 contributors with that many extra picks in quality rounds.

I did word that incorrectly as I expect 2 to 3 per draft to become solid contributors or better over their career. The Bengals have been successful because they are getting 4 to 5 solid contributors (5 to 7 years contribution) per draft while many others are getting less than 3. One extra solid contributor or better per year over 7 years is 7 players. 2 is 14 players on a roster. That is how teams that build through the draft can keep salary down (cap) and still put a solid team on the field as they don't have to go buy their draft mistakes by over using free agency. Just my opinion.

[Shake n Blake]

(08-19-2015, 02:42 PM)djs7685 Wrote: 1. Using 2011 to somehow diminish 2012 doesn't make much sense. Why can't they both be GOOD drafts? They were, not just one of them, they were both very good draft classes. Kirkpatrick, Zeitler, Sanu, Jones, and Iloka coming out of the same draft class is impressive whether we had 10 picks in the first 3 rounds or in the first 7 rounds. I don't see why you're using these weird qualifiers to diminish this draft class. So what if we had 10 picks in the first round alone? The success rate for your average draft pick isn't very high, the fact that we got 2 top 10 (arguably top 5) guys at G and S, along with a solid #2 WR, solid #3 WR, and potential #1 CB is pretty much absurd and unheard of.

2. I watch tons of football around the league, I recognize a lot of those names and even remember when some of them came out of college, so it's not global name recognition I'm looking for. I also NEVER said the drafts that I posted as my examples were bad. I was merely using random team's drafts as examples of what your average draft is going to look like. Some of them were solid, others were very lacking. Even the teams that "draft well" don't have a very high success rate overall, you're bound to miss sometimes. Some of the guys on those lists were starters, but were they good starters? I think you're barking up the wrong tree if you want to insinuate that I need to learn more about other teams. I'm not your average Bengals fan that doesn't pay attention to sports outside of this team, I probably know more about the Raiders than some folks living in Oakland, and they're probably my least favorite team to watch.

1. I'm not using 2011 to diminish 2012. I think they were both good drafts. This thread is about how awesome the 2012 draft was. My point is that I don't see it as much more successful than some of our recent drafts. 2011 was better IMO. Coming out of a draft with 5 solid players is absurd, I agree there, but as I've pointed out, we don't have 9 picks in the first 5 rounds every year.

Counting how many draft picks we had isn't a "weird qualifier" and I have no idea why you'd see it that way. I just prefer to look at that draft with a little perspective. If you give any team that is solid in the draft 9 picks in the top 5 rounds, they're going to come out with a really good haul more often than not. All I'm saying is that the 2012 draft wasn't some epic, franchise changing draft. When you factor in the extra picks, it's about what you'd expect from the Bengals these days. We've improved in the draft.

2. Just looking at the first team you listed, the Lions:

- Ansah is a Dunlap-like player for them with 15.5 sacks in 2 seasons. 
- Slay started all 16 games with 62 tackles and 2 INT's for the 2nd ranked defense. 
- Warford has started 29 games and was named 2nd team all-NFL by PFF in 2013. 
- Devin Taylor has been a rotational player with 30 tackles and 2.5 sacks in 2 seasons. 
- Sam Martin has been among the league's top punters, averaging 46.7 yards/punt in his career. 
- Corey Fuller caught 14 passes for 212 yards last season
- Theo Riddick caught 34 passes for 316 yards and 4 TD's as a pass catching back last year

Every year you'll see multiple teams with drafts as good as the one we had in 2012, and we did it with a boatload of extra picks. That's why I'm saying it was "good" but not an epic home run. I didn't think people would be so appalled by me saying that. I'm complimenting the 2012 draft, I'm just not gushing about it as much as some. 

[tman]

I must have missed the pro bowl Zeitler and Iloka played in..

[djs7685]

I wasn't specifically talking about the Detroit draft about starters, but in general. Just because a player is starting doesn't necessarily mean they're good, ya know? I guess I'm just surprised that it seems like a couple people don't view ours as a great draft and just see it as standard for us now.

If Dre Kirk ends up being a legitimate #1 CB, this draft could go down as the best in Bengals history. Let's look at it this way...

Best case (realistic) scenario we're looking at...

Top 5 G
Top 5/10 S
Top 16 #1 CB
Top 16 #2 WR
Top 16 slot receiver
Rotational DT that made a second contract

Worst case (realistic) scenario we're looking at....

Top 5 G
Top 10 S
Mediocre #2 CB
Injury plagued #2 WR that still had a 10 TD year
Top 16 slot receiver
Rotational DT that had 1 year of play time and got cut after 3 years

So, worst case scenario, that's still pretty impressive IMO. Best case scenario we're looking at one of the best drafts in the NFL of the past decade. I'm not a big homie homeroo, but this draft was really good.