Sutton in a trade down?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-12-2017, 06:41 AM)Jpoore Wrote: This is my point... The whole thread I've been arguing with people bc they're whining about taking another wr. Well guess what? It's looking less and less like there's an lt worthy of a top 10 pick. Or even a first round pick. So get an aj green replacement, get 2 second round picks and get who u want in the oline in the second with 2 picks.

Green is the last player on offense who needs to be replaced. If the Bengals do draft a LT I'm sure your opinion will magically change regardless of who they draft as soon as that player puts on a Bengals' jersey just like it did with Ross.

[Jpoore]

(11-12-2017, 05:08 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Green is the last player on offense who needs to be replaced. If the Bengals do draft a LT I'm sure your opinion will magically change regardless of who they draft as soon as that player puts on a Bengals' jersey just like it did with Ross.

My opinion on Ross hasn't changed. He was always a really good player that had health concerns. Take away the health concerns he would have been wr1. And mcglichey just got ate up there's nobody worth a top 10 pick oline wise. It will take a minumum of 2 years to fix the oline, at which point aj is 32.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-10-2017, 11:01 PM)Jpoore Wrote: I'm looking more to the future. Aj green is 30 Ross isn't a bust, Lewis is just stubborn. But Sutton is a legit terrell owens type wr. If mcglichey is gone, then trade down get a second rounder and get 3 potential wr1s. And u still get the same amount of oline players that u would get regardless. If mcglichey is there and they don't take him I would lose my shit. But if he's gone. U have the potential to get 3 wr1 an absolutely highest level of doninant guard in Hernandez and a really good center in price. Then next year go for the ots.but getting Hernandez and price would give our running have a massive boost, and that would make the ots play better. 
I also wouldn't be opposed to trading Malone and Boyd  and a 5th for an additional second to get that left tackle.

Yea I got where you were coming from, but I still disagree about WR. AJ becomes a free agent in 2020, so he's still got two more years with the Bengals. Taking a WR in 2018 means that WR would be WR2/3 for two years before potentially taking over for AJ assuming AJ were to even leave. You're then losing valuable cheap contract years on this WR because he's not playing what he was meant to be, which is a WR1. If there's concern with drafting AJ's future replacement, look to do that in 2019 or even 2020, as we see a good number of rookie WRs come in and do well their first year. Last, everyone is sitting here criticizing the terrible play of the WRs saying they don't get separation, but I don't fully believe that based on what I saw in previous years. They do "eventually" get separation. It takes an extremely rare talent to get separation within just a couple seconds, which is how long Dalton has before getting hit or forced to throw. Taking a WR yet again will just be more of the same until the OL can be fixed.

If the team trades down, I'd hope they address the trenches still, and here's why.
Dunlap and Atkins are set to hit FA after next season. They, like AJ, are also going to be 30+ years old once FA hits for them. And this draft has some good DE and DT prospects. I'd like to see the Bengals take a DL in the first two rounds and at least one OL in the first two rounds too. I say "at least" because of the possibility of trading down and getting an extra 2nd round pick. I'm leaning DT over DE because from what I've researched so far, there are some quality mid-round DE prospects but I'm not seeing many good pass rushing DT prospects outside of top top 5-6 DTs. None that I think would be there in Round 3 or later anyway.

While I still have some hope for McGlinchey even after a terrible showing against Miami this Saturday, I'd be fine with the Bengals not taking an OT in the first if they really felt this class wasn't very good and instead maybe used a 2nd to 4th rounder on OT to see if one could supplant one of our OTs or at least be quality depth. If that's the case, it's important to address the interior and actually give Dalton (or some other QB) an actual pocket to step into. I'm in agreement with you that Hernandez and Price would be able to provide good interior play. A guy I like as a mid-round LT then would be Bentley Spain from UNC.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-13-2017, 03:32 AM)Jpoore Wrote: My opinion on Ross hasn't changed. He was always a really good player that had health concerns. Take away the health concerns he would have been wr1. And mcglichey just got ate up there's nobody worth a top 10 pick oline wise. It will take a minumum of 2 years to fix the oline, at which point aj is 32.

Yeah, plus you wrote Ross can't seperate and it takes him 30 yards to build up speed. So basically he is a one trick pony with straight line speed once he gets past 30 yards.

[BenZoo2]

(11-12-2017, 05:08 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Green is the last player on offense who needs to be replaced. If the Bengals do draft a LT I'm sure your opinion will magically change regardless of who they draft as soon as that player puts on a Bengals' jersey just like it did with Ross.

This is just the opening salvo of literally what will be a hundred posts where he beats the drum for Sutton. Once he locks on a player I️t becomes an obsession


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hammerstripes]

(11-13-2017, 03:33 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Yeah, plus you wrote Ross can't seperate and it takes him 30 yards to build up speed. So basically he is a one trick pony with straight line speed once he gets past 30 yards.

Yeah, because most 4.2 40 guys don't get out of the blocks fast.

[Jpoore]

(11-13-2017, 11:14 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Yea I got where you were coming from, but I still disagree about WR. AJ becomes a free agent in 2020, so he's still got two more years with the Bengals. Taking a WR in 2018 means that WR would be WR2/3 for two years before potentially taking over for AJ assuming AJ were to even leave. You're then losing valuable cheap contract years on this WR because he's not playing what he was meant to be, which is a WR1. If there's concern with drafting AJ's future replacement, look to do that in 2019 or even 2020, as we see a good number of rookie WRs come in and do well their first year. Last, everyone is sitting here criticizing the terrible play of the WRs saying they don't get separation, but I don't fully believe that based on what I saw in previous years. They do "eventually" get separation. It takes an extremely rare talent to get separation within just a couple seconds, which is how long Dalton has before getting hit or forced to throw. Taking a WR yet again will just be more of the same until the OL can be fixed.

If the team trades down, I'd hope they address the trenches still, and here's why.
Dunlap and Atkins are set to hit FA after next season. They, like AJ, are also going to be 30+ years old once FA hits for them. And this draft has some good DE and DT prospects. I'd like to see the Bengals take a DL in the first two rounds and at least one OL in the first two rounds too. I say "at least" because of the possibility of trading down and getting an extra 2nd round pick. I'm leaning DT over DE because from what I've researched so far, there are some quality mid-round DE prospects but I'm not seeing many good pass rushing DT prospects outside of top top 5-6 DTs. None that I think would be there in Round 3 or later anyway.

While I still have some hope for McGlinchey even after a terrible showing against Miami this Saturday, I'd be fine with the Bengals not taking an OT in the first if they really felt this class wasn't very good and instead maybe used a 2nd to 4th rounder on OT to see if one could supplant one of our OTs or at least be quality depth. If that's the case, it's important to address the interior and actually give Dalton (or some other QB) an actual pocket to step into. I'm in agreement with you that Hernandez and Price would be able to provide good interior play. A guy I like as a mid-round LT then would be Bentley Spain from UNC.

I'm on the jamarco Jones in the 4th(yes also osu). I like Spain but like mcglichey he struggles with speed rushers. And I said take a we now bc I believe by 2019 aj would be wr2(ala how Fitz went from wr1-wr2) if we don't go wr, the only dt I would be okay with taking would be wilkins or Jones. De I don't see the need right now. Lawson and Willis need playing time and u know we're gonna resign Atkins and Dunlap. But I would be okay with a 4th round pick at de for depth with upside

[*ochocincos*]

(11-14-2017, 01:52 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I'm on the jamarco Jones in the 4th(yes also osu). I like Spain but like mcglichey he struggles with speed rushers. And I said take a we now bc I believe by 2019 aj would be wr2(ala how Fitz went from wr1-wr2) if we don't go wr, the only dt I would be okay with taking would be wilkins or Jones. De I don't see the need right now. Lawson and Willis need playing time and u know we're gonna resign Atkins and Dunlap. But I would be okay with a 4th round pick at de for depth with upside

I've seen Jones mocked has high as 2nd and as low as 3rd. You think he'd fall to 4th? If so, I'd happily take him over Spain.
As for DE, I think for two reasons: 1) Dunlap might hit FA after 2018, and 2) I think MJ should be cut to free up cap space to sign offensive player. If MJ isn't cut, he would hit FA too after 2018 season and then the Bengals might have to replace two bodies at DE.

[Jpoore]

(11-14-2017, 10:21 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I've seen Jones mocked has high as 2nd and as low as 3rd. You think he'd fall to 4th? If so, I'd happily take him over Spain.
As for DE, I think for two reasons: 1) Dunlap might hit FA after 2018, and 2) I think MJ should be cut to free up cap space to sign offensive player. If MJ isn't cut, he would hit FA too after 2018 season and then the Bengals might have to replace two bodies at DE.

I actually would keep Johnson  he been very good rushing at dt. Lawson and Smith should play at rde dunlap will be resigned I'm not worried about that. And Dunlap and Willis should split time at lde. We're gonna have almost 45 million in cap space so we're fine there.dt is where I would go(Wilkins or dremont Jones) if I went dline... I think jamarco Jones gets picked late late third or very top of 4th. I'd be fine using our third comp pick which I think is where he would go on Jones.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-15-2017, 11:36 PM)Jpoore Wrote: I actually would keep Johnson  he been very good rushing at dt. Lawson and Smith should play at rde dunlap will be resigned I'm not worried about that. And Dunlap and Willis should split time at lde. We're gonna have almost 45 million in cap space so we're fine there.dt is where I would go(Wilkins or dremont Jones) if I went dline... I think jamarco Jones gets picked late late third or very top of 4th. I'd be fine using our third comp pick which I think is where he would go on Jones.

Where did you get this info?
From what I've seen, we'll have $20 million plus whatever the Bengals rollover from this year's cap (can't be more than $12 mill).
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/2018/

[Jpoore]

(11-16-2017, 10:31 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Where did you get this info?
From what I've seen, we'll have $20 million plus whatever the Bengals rollover from this year's cap (can't be more than $12 mill).
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/2018/

Over the cap has us at 30 million, but that includes burfict at 9.3 million, which is laughable bc that assumes he won't get suspended. I assume he will get suspended. But yeah I thought I saw we were gonna have 45 must have been wrong number.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-16-2017, 06:32 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Over the cap has us at 30 million, but that includes burfict at 9.3 million, which is laughable bc that assumes he won't get suspended. I assume he will get suspended. But yeah I thought I saw we were gonna have 45 must have been wrong number.

Even if Burfict does get suspended at some point in the season, the cap space has to be reserved.
And regarding OTC cap number, it's estimating $11 mill cap increase for all teams compared to 2017 whereas Spotrac estimates just $1 mill increase.
We ultimately will not know how much the cap will rise until this Winter, and same with the rollover.
But the cap for Cincinnati COULD be $40+ mill if the cap raises to what OTC predicts and the Bengals roll over $10+ mill.
For now, I prefer to go with the more conservative number. We are dealing with Mike Brown after all, who we know likes to hold back a decent chunk of cap for extensions, draft picks, and injuries.

[corpjet]

Drafting a WR makes no sense, if we have no time to throw we can have 5 "AJ Greens" spread out but Dalton will be on his back 7 yards deep from the line of scrimmage.........

Build from the line out, we have a solid group of weapons on this team...

[Jpoore]

(11-20-2017, 06:48 PM)corpjet Wrote: Drafting a WR makes no sense, if we have no time to throw we can have 5 "AJ Greens" spread out but Dalton will be on his back 7 yards deep from the line of scrimmage.........

Build from the line out, we have a solid group of weapons on this team...

Look at the second and third round picks.im not taking a 2nd round talent in the first just bc they play oline.

[BenZoo2]

(11-20-2017, 06:48 PM)corpjet Wrote: Drafting a WR makes no sense, if we have no time to throw we can have 5 "AJ Greens" spread out but Dalton will be on his back 7 yards deep from the line of scrimmage.........

Build from the line out, we have a solid group of weapons on this team...

But didn't you see where sutton has his highest grade since aj/Julio?  Get used to it, 6 more months of this.  He's a glutton for sutton

[Jpoore]

(11-20-2017, 11:12 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: But didn't you see where sutton has his highest grade since aj/Julio?  Get used to it, 6 more months of this.  He's a glutton for sutton

So apparently ur a fan of drafting a second round talent in the first? Hell while we're at it let's draft jt barrett In the first. It's stupid... And as I've said I'd also be fine with Wilkins or Derwin James. But wr is a need no matter how much u say it isn't. If aj goes down with injury we won't be able to do shit. Draft Sutton we will.

[BenZoo2]

(11-20-2017, 11:18 PM)Jpoore Wrote: So apparently ur a fan of drafting a second round talent in the first? Hell while we're at it let's draft jt barrett In the first. It's stupid... And as I've said I'd also be fine with Wilkins or Derwin James. But wr is a need no matter how much u say it isn't. If aj goes down with injury we won't be able to do shit. Draft Sutton we will.

Did I say that?  You find where I said that anywhere.  You have a man crush on sutton, just like you did with Mike Williams last year.  I've seen sutton rated from the tens to the sixties.  Until more rankings come out I'm not going to beat the drum for anyone.  We don't where we draft or what we will do in free agency.  Well, we kinda know that one.  

I'm not ready to give up on all of our wrs yet.  If sutton is as great you THINK he will be and is the clear bpa at our pick I'd be ok with it.  This team has more needs than wr.  You need to chill with all this premature draft strategy.  You're not a scout and you didn't sleep in a holiday inn

[Jpoore]

(11-20-2017, 11:51 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Did I say that?  You find where I said that anywhere.  You have a man crush on sutton, just like you did with Mike Williams last year.  I've seen sutton rated from the tens to the sixties.  Until more rankings come out I'm not going to beat the drum for anyone.  We don't where we draft or what we will do in free agency.  Well, we kinda know that one.  

I'm not ready to give up on all of our wrs yet.  If sutton is as great you THINK he will be and is the clear bpa at our pick I'd be ok with it.  This team has more needs than wr.  You need to chill with all this premature draft strategy.  You're not a scout and you didn't sleep in a holiday inn

1. I am a scout.
2. U want to take a olineman in the first.
3. He is easily the best wr in this draft and the best since 2011.
4. All our wrs? Our starting 3 next year will be malone, green, and some third wr we don't know. Right now it's Erickson.

[BenZoo2]

(11-21-2017, 08:23 AM)Jpoore Wrote: 1. I am a scout.
2. U want to take a olineman in the first.
3. He is easily the best wr in this draft and the best since 2011.
4. All our wrs? Our starting 3 next year will be malone, green, and some third wr we don't know. Right now it's Erickson.

1. Girl, boy or high school?
2. Maybe. You don’t know who I️ want to take. I’ll spell it for you, in no particular order. McGlinchey, Nelson, James, Wilkins, key.
3. Your opinion. The early rankings in no way support your claim.
4. Giving up on Ross so soon? I️ guess that means you’ve given up on Mike Williams too.

You are steadfastly defending a mock draft. I’ll let that sink in a minute. A draft scenario that’s as likely as you owning the bengals.

Come back to reality and continue draft talk in a few months.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-21-2017, 08:23 AM)Jpoore Wrote: 1. I am a scout.
2. U want to take a olineman in the first.
3. He is easily the best wr in this draft and the best since 2011.
4. All our wrs? Our starting 3 next year will be malone, green, and some third wr we don't know. Right now it's Erickson.

A scout who relies upon Kiper's and McShay's draft grades?

So give me the breakdown of your grade on Sutton and Mike Williams from last year.