Drafting guys that fit our scheme

[THE PISTONS]

The Patriots have a scheme and pick guys that fit it. The Bengals? Not so much. We might go best player available...but we don't seem to take into account scheme.

We all know that Kirkpatrick took a long time to play. We know we play a weak zone defense a lot...well guess what? Kirkpatrick is suited for Man Coverage.

From his scouting report: 'Best fit, scheme: He is best suited for a defense that plays a lot of tight man coverage and asks cornerbacks to line up frequently in press alignment. He must play for a team that likes its cornerbacks to be physical with receivers and try to re-route receivers off the line.'

But, it doesn't stop there. He actually struggled in Zone: 'Needs to improve: Kirkpatrick does not always come up field quickly to make tackles in run support and can be ridden out of plays too easily by blockers. He can be a solid wrap-up tackler, but he is not a violent hitter. He must break up more passes from off and zone coverage instead of just making the tackle after the catch.'

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/213892-dre-kirkpatrick-ideal-for-covering-nfls-bigger-receivers

I've read where Dennard is best suited for man-to-man also.

[THE PISTONS]

Feel free to post other scouting reports here.

[BengalChris]

(12-07-2017, 12:07 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Patriots have a scheme and pick guys that fit it. The Bengals? Not so much. We might go best player available...but we don't seem to take into account scheme.

We all know that Kirkpatrick took a long time to play. We know we play a weak zone defense a lot...well guess what? Kirkpatrick is suited for Man Coverage.

From his scouting report: 'Best fit, scheme: He is best suited for a defense that plays a lot of tight man coverage and asks cornerbacks to line up frequently in press alignment. He must play for a team that likes its cornerbacks to be physical with receivers and try to re-route receivers off the line.'

But, it doesn't stop there. He actually struggled in Zone: 'Needs to improve: Kirkpatrick does not always come up field quickly to make tackles in run support and can be ridden out of plays too easily by blockers. He can be a solid wrap-up tackler, but he is not a violent hitter. He must break up more passes from off and zone coverage instead of just making the tackle after the catch.'

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/213892-dre-kirkpatrick-ideal-for-covering-nfls-bigger-receivers

I've read where Dennard is best suited for man-to-man also.

I have seen the Bengals pass over better players for a position they want to fill or for some other reason, like the GM just decided we needed the guy and we passed on better players.

As a note, Kirkpatrick played zone almost exclusively in college. There wasn't any film on him in man coverage when he was coming out and that was one of the issues fans had about selecting him.

The Bengals play both man and zone, depending on what they want to do on that particular play. Adam Jones can do either. Dennard can also. Willie Jackson is good in man and he'll be our best corner soon.

[Hammerstripes]

I actually think the Bengals have drafted to their scheme WAY too much.

How many picks did we spend on guys like Will Clarke? 6'6" 290 pounders who "fit the mold" at DE?

It was refreshing to see them have a draft last year where some of the picks didn't fall into the measurables, but more on the talent of hte player. Lawson is a good example.

[Alleyviper13]

(12-07-2017, 01:43 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I have seen the Bengals pass over better players for a position they want to fill or for some other reason, like the GM just decided we needed the guy and we passed on better players.

As a note, Kirkpatrick played zone almost exclusively in college. There wasn't any film on him in man coverage when he was coming out and that was one of the issues fans had about selecting him.

The Bengals play both man and zone, depending on what they want to do on that particular play. Adam Jones can do either. Dennard can also. Willie Jackson is good in man and he'll be our best corner soon.

The comment about Kirkpatrick is seriously false. He was a stud corner in college who could man up and seriously hit. Watch his college highlights (I watched too many of them non stop due to a family member man crushing him)

Kirk used to lay the wood and cover everything..which is why he was regarded as a 1st rounder. He’s changed.

[kevin]

Well if none of the coaches are signed and team is going in a whole new direction, then WE DON'T HAVE A SCHEME.

Our SCHEME better be to draft Left Tackle, Guard and Center EARLY, especially after drafting all these WR's, RB's, CB's, Defense lately and ignoring the O Line except for Og and Fish who might, might I say, be able to play right tackle but stink at left tackle. Our scheme no matter what coaches we end up with better be to get some blocking or the best coach ever with the best play book ever will find his X's and O's don't work in the hard hitting AFC North with no blocking.

As long as Mike Brown owns team and no GM, the SCHEME is for The Godfather and The Family to get their piece of the action and make as much money as they can. The SCHEME is for Mike Brown, Pete Brown, Katie Brown Blackburn, Paul Brown Jr, and all the grandchildren and great grandchildren of The Browns and Blackburns to have front office jobs and keep the money IN THE FAMILY. In The Godfather, idiot Fredo was going to learn the casino business. Here the idiot kids learn the football business, and if it leads to 4 win season, at least they kept the money in the Family. They're going to the mattresses, leave the football and grab the cannoli. May the next Brown or Blackburn child be a masculine child.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-07-2017, 01:50 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I actually think the Bengals have drafted to their scheme WAY too much.

How many picks did we spend on guys like Will Clarke?  6'6" 290 pounders who "fit the mold" at DE?

It was refreshing to see them have a draft last year where some of the picks didn't fall into the measurables, but more on the talent of hte player.  Lawson is a good example.

I don't know that drafting tall DE's is a 'scheme' thing rather a personal preference...but I do agree that smaller, quicker guys seem to work better.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-07-2017, 04:25 AM)kevin Wrote: Well if none of the coaches are signed and team is going in a whole new direction, then WE DON'T HAVE A SCHEME.

Our SCHEME better be to draft Left Tackle, Guard and Center EARLY, especially after drafting all these WR's, RB's, CB's, Defense lately and ignoring the O Line except for Og and Fish who might, might I say, be able to play right tackle but stink at left tackle.  Our scheme no matter what coaches we end up with better be to get some blocking or the best coach ever with the best play book ever will find his X's and O's don't work in the hard hitting AFC North with no blocking.

As long as Mike Brown owns team and no GM, the SCHEME is for The Godfather and The Family to get their piece of the action and make as much money as they can. The SCHEME is for Mike Brown, Pete Brown, Katie Brown Blackburn, Paul Brown Jr, and all the grandchildren and great grandchildren of The Browns and Blackburns to have front office jobs and keep the money IN THE FAMILY.   In The Godfather, idiot Fredo was going to learn the casino business.  Here the idiot kids learn the football business, and if it leads to 4 win season, at least they kept the money in the Family. They're going to the mattresses, leave the football and grab the cannoli.  May the next Brown or Blackburn child be a masculine child.

We will have an almost entirely new scouting department too!

[Interceptor]

Anyone can fit in a losing scheme.

[*ochocincos*]

There is no scheme.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-07-2017, 01:43 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I have seen the Bengals pass over better players for a position they want to fill or for some other reason, like the GM just decided we needed the guy and we passed on better players.

As a note, Kirkpatrick played zone almost exclusively in college. There wasn't any film on him in man coverage when he was coming out and that was one of the issues fans had about selecting him.

The Bengals play both man and zone, depending on what they want to do on that particular play. Adam Jones can do either. Dennard can also. Willie Jackson is good in man and he'll be our best corner soon.

Completely agree on DK. He's still not good really with man coverage. I think that's why some people actually pegged him more as a FS actually, but I think the main reason he couldn't be a FS in the NFL is because he's a twig.

[*Synric*]

(12-07-2017, 01:43 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I have seen the Bengals pass over better players for a position they want to fill or for some other reason, like the GM just decided we needed the guy and we passed on better players.

As a note, Kirkpatrick played zone almost exclusively in college. There wasn't any film on him in man coverage when he was out and that was one of the issues fans had about selecting him.

The Bengals play both man and zone, depending on what they want to do on that particular play. Adam Jones can do either. Dennard can also. Willie Jackson is good in man and he'll be our best corner soon.

Alabama plays bump and run almost exclusively.


As for people throwing out terms like "soft zone" isn't true. Between the 40s PG likes to bring a zone blitz to try to force turnovers. Of course this always leaves an opening in the defense for a QB to exploit if the blitz doesn't get there. 

[*ochocincos*]

(12-07-2017, 12:07 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Patriots have a scheme and pick guys that fit it. The Bengals? Not so much. We might go best player available...but we don't seem to take into account scheme.

We all know that Kirkpatrick took a long time to play. We know we play a weak zone defense a lot...well guess what? Kirkpatrick is suited for Man Coverage.

From his scouting report: 'Best fit, scheme: He is best suited for a defense that plays a lot of tight man coverage and asks cornerbacks to line up frequently in press alignment. He must play for a team that likes its cornerbacks to be physical with receivers and try to re-route receivers off the line.'

But, it doesn't stop there. He actually struggled in Zone: 'Needs to improve: Kirkpatrick does not always come up field quickly to make tackles in run support and can be ridden out of plays too easily by blockers. He can be a solid wrap-up tackler, but he is not a violent hitter. He must break up more passes from off and zone coverage instead of just making the tackle after the catch.'

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/213892-dre-kirkpatrick-ideal-for-covering-nfls-bigger-receivers

I've read where Dennard is best suited for man-to-man also.

I've never been a fan of zone coverage. Change this team (back) to primarily man coverage and see WJ3 and Dennard really do well I think.
And please rush the passer with more than just the four DL more often.

For offense, I think it makes too much sense to change the identity to a man-blocking rushing attack and use the run to set up the pass.
You can't invest that many early-round picks in RB if you're not going to emphasize the running game.
Get rid of timid blockers like Ogbuehi and Bodine and get some maulers across the line. SEC, Big 10, or Notre Dame OL. Those guys are always road graders. I still consider Texas A&M a Big 12 team because of their style, so don't say "Ogbuehi was SEC!"
I think getting push off the LOS and giving Mixon and Bernard 25+ touches a game will allow Dalton (or whichever new QB) the ability to utilize playaction better.
And teams will have to respect AJ Green (and hopefully John Ross in the future) so they have to make the tough decision to stack the line or defend the star WR(s).

[*Synric*]

(12-07-2017, 11:16 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I've never been a fan of zone coverage. Change this team (back) to primarily man coverage and see WJ3 and Dennard really do well I think.
And please rush the passer with more than just the four DL more often.

Man coverage with a blitz alot of thr times is more dangerous than a zone blitz because defenders turn their back to the play to cover their receiver. Also a zone blitz allows defenders to read the offense and make more plays on the football causing turnovers.

Like I said in my other post PG loves the zone blitz between the 40s (so does MIke Zimmer). Not coincidentally this is the area of the field you'll see Dre Kirkpatrick allows most of the catches his direction due to dropping in a deeper zone to prevent the big play down the sideline. Of course when recognized it allows the receiver to run a short hitch or out and space to make a move.

[3wt]

(12-07-2017, 11:16 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I've never been a fan of zone coverage. Change this team (back) to primarily man coverage and see WJ3 and Dennard really do well I think.
And please rush the passer with more than just the four DL more often.

 I think the Steelers run a zone defense pretty effectively.  But we were a man coverage defense when Dre was drafted, and it worked pretty darn well.

Things started to unravel a little when we have a lot of injuries to Jones, Dennard and Dre - and when our D-line stopped getting consistent pressure with 4 D Linemen

We definitely don't do zone coverage well - especially Kirkpatrick and Dennard.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-07-2017, 01:03 PM)3wt Wrote:  I think the Steelers run a zone defense pretty effectively.  But we were a man coverage defense when Dre was drafted, and it worked pretty darn well.

Things started to unravel a little when we have a lot of injuries to Jones, Dennard and Dre - and when our D-line stopped getting consistent pressure with 4 D Linemen

We definitely don't do zone coverage well - especially Kirkpatrick and Dennard.

Do you remember how Kirkpatrick basically didn't play his 1st 3 or 4 years here?

[BengalChris]

(12-07-2017, 10:55 AM)Synric Wrote: Alabama plays bump and run almost exclusively.


As for people throwing out terms like "soft zone" isn't true. Between the 40s PG likes to bring a zone blitz to try to force turnovers. Of course this always leaves an opening in the defense for a QB to exploit if the blitz doesn't get there. 

Not at that time. Then Alabama was exclusively zone.

[*Synric*]

(12-07-2017, 02:31 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Not at that time. Then Alabama was exclusively zone.

No. They play bump and run almost exclusively. It's Nick Saban's thing.

Quote: “I did backpedal,” Kirkpatrick said. “People just took it the wrong way. We played man-to-man mostly at Alabama, and it is what it is.”

And backpedaling out of the bump-and-run is crazy?
“Exactly,” Kirkpatrick said. “They understood basically what I was trying to say."

What he was trying to say is that Alabamacornerbacks are taught how to turn their hips and move their feet in bump-and-run coverage that is the rule far more than the exception with coach Nick Saban.

http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2012/09/bump_and_shuffle_maybe_the_tec.html

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Don't care for the zone scheme on either side of the ball. I like an aggressive scheme atleast most of the time.

More man to man on Defense, more blitzing, less of the CB giving the Receivers cushion...

More directional blocking on Offense, more Slants, Posts, TE Screens and Fades to our taller Receivers in the Redzone...

[Interceptor]

I'd like to have Marv play RB and get the ball on every possession. Then he will get a first-hand look on how great our o-line is.