Paul Daugherty: If Lewis is out, shouldn't Dalton follow?

[Utts]

We are stuck with Dalton until his contract is up, unless some miracle trade happens, and it won’t because the Raiders have a QB.

Hopefully we draft a quality replacement in the next 2-years, or better yet AJ emerges as a legit option.

[jowczarski]

Thanks for sharing Doc's column.

He and I have had many hours worth of arguments about Dalton and we disagree -- but in total honesty it's a thought worth having if you're blowing out the coaching staff. The interesting thing is this - it's a little easier to build a more talented roster around a "B" QB making what Dalton's making and go to the Super Bowl as opposed to finding Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers.

The true answer is probably somewhere inbetween now. A new coach will like the fact Dalton is on the team. It affords him the opportunity to win 9-10 games in 2018 and look real good. But, with Dalton's contract expiring in 2020 and McCarron on his way out as the primary backup, it affords the coach and the front office the opportunity to draft a 2nd-3rd Rd QB whose contract will outlive Dalton's and gives them a year to work out an extension. OR, as some who are very anti-Dalton might want, you can draft a 1st Rd. QB...In that case the decision becomes to "Palmer" him while Dalton plays and then try to move AD in 2019, or you decide to take your lumps and lose another 9-12 games with a rookie QB and overhaul in 2019.

A new coach creates these questions and ideas, which are all valid until that person and his staff is hired and a direction is set forth.

[CKwi88]

(12-21-2017, 12:00 AM)jowczarski Wrote: Thanks for sharing Doc's column.

He and I have had many hours worth of arguments about Dalton and we disagree -- but in total honesty it's a thought worth having if you're blowing out the coaching staff. The interesting thing is this - it's a little easier to build a more talented roster around a "B" QB making what Dalton's making and go to the Super Bowl as opposed to finding Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers.

The true answer is probably somewhere inbetween now. A new coach will like the fact Dalton is on the team. It affords him the opportunity to win 9-10 games in 2018 and look real good. But, with Dalton's contract expiring in 2020 and McCarron on his way out as the primary backup, it affords the coach and the front office the opportunity to draft a 2nd-3rd Rd QB whose contract will outlive Dalton's and gives them a year to work out an extension. OR, as some who are very anti-Dalton might want, you can draft a 1st Rd. QB...In that case the decision becomes to "Palmer" him while Dalton plays and then try to move AD in 2019, or you decide to take your lumps and lose another 9-12 games with a rookie QB and overhaul in 2019.

A new coach creates these questions and ideas, which are all valid until that person and his staff is hired and a direction is set forth.

Thanks for the insight Jim. 

Do you believe that such decision-making capabilities will be given to the new head coach? Or will that be above his pay grade (read: up to Mike Brown)

[NATI BENGALS]

You dont cut starter caliber nfl QBs.

See what he looks like under a different head coach.

If marvin totally warped his brain and he continues to play like a chicken shit try someone else.

New coach, open competition. Someone outplays him good they get to start.

Case keenum and blake bortles are headed to the playoffs. We can at least get there with Dalton.

[bengalsfansince93]

(12-20-2017, 02:35 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Hilarious to me how Dalton was having an MVP season two years ago before injury, then last year we have no running game now the line blows and a new coordinator and everyone wants Dalton gone.

Only in Bengalsland........

Listen to yourself!!! Excuses!!!

[bengalsfansince93]

(12-20-2017, 09:30 AM)seab00 Wrote: So he threw a pick 6.  Lots of QB's do.

Compare his pick 6 ratio to other current QB's, he has one of the lowest ratios.
I did check---only Brady,Ryan,Flacco,Smith and Rodgers have a better ratio among
QB's with more than 5 years service---better than Cousins,Rivers,Cutler,Carr,Eli,Bradford,
Ben,Carson,Stafford,Gabbert

And we all know Andy never has to rush his throws due to his superior OL pass protection and
the outstanding play calling by Marvin and company.

So your going to evaluate Andy just on pick sixes.  You Dalton Lovers kill me.  give it break.

[bengalsfansince93]

(12-20-2017, 12:17 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't know which I "love" more, those that think exactly like Mike Brown and think if you don't have an elite QB you need to find one all while criticizing the way Mike Brown does things OR those who think if you're not a great QB, you suck and there's no inbetween.

Dalton is a good QB. The only way you can argue otherwise is with non-quantifiable things. If you don't think he can win big games, that's understandable. But, that alone does not make him a bad QB. Dalton is a GOOD QB. The fact that this is even argued just embarrasses me as a Bengal fan (not to the degree that Mike Brown embarrasses me, but still ...)

Look, if you want a new QB because you don't think Dalton will ever be able to win a playoff game, ok, I get it. I disagree, but I get it. If you want a new QB because there are some good choices this coming draft, I'm with you as long as our choice has the potential to be better than Dalton.

People need to stop with the narrative that Dalton sucks. He doesn't. Maybe he sucks in big games and in the playoffs (he's mostly sucked there so far), and maybe it is time to move on, but Dalton is NOT a bad QB.

He's bad. sorry. you can twist turn it whatever way you want.  If you truly believe he is good that's your opinion.  But you are wrong

[Socal Bengals fan]

(12-21-2017, 12:44 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: You dont cut starter caliber nfl QBs.

See what he looks like under a different head coach.

If marvin totally warped his brain and he continues to play like a chicken shit try someone else.

New coach, open competition. Someone outplays him good they get to start.

Case keenum and blake bortles are headed to the playoffs. We can at least get there with Dalton.

Case Keenam stands in the pocket n throws a pretty bowl.  Bortles is getting carried by his team.  much like Dalton his first 5 years.

[bengalsfansince93]

(12-20-2017, 03:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. Paul Daugherty has always been anti-Andy. So no surprise there. 

2. I'm not falling into the same trap of scapegoating the QB ala 2010 Palmer.

3. Dalton's stats the last 2 weeks are irrelevant to me. The team quit the moment they lost to the Steelers. For 10 straight weeks, this team at least showed fight, and Dalton played well through that stretch. We went from nearly beating probably the 2nd best NFL team, to losing 2 games by a combined score of 67-14. Yeah, Dalton has been terrible in those 2 games along with everyone else. Imagine that. Now we got folks jumping out from under their rocks to point at his passer rating ranking.  

So Dalton is 21st now in passer rating. Guess where that puts him? Right between Derek Carr and Cam Newton. Is that really unforgivable considering the circumstances? Lets not act like other good QB's don't have down years with bad circumstances. Our line? Shit. Run game? Shit. Receivers outside of AJ? Shit. Changed coordinators mid-season. Players quitting because Marv is quitting. Eifert injured again. Ross couldn't get on the field. LaFell looks done.

Lets be honest here. The situation isn't just "not great" it's crap. Dalton doesn't need an immaculate cast to perform at a good level. He just needs the team to not be in utter disarray. 

Is Dalton part of the solution moving forward? Idk...but he's not even a problem with this team. This team is just a shit show, and Dalton isn't an elite (top 3) QB we would need to overcome it. Fwiw, if we could get Josh Rosen somehow (trade up?), I'd be for it, but I don't like any of the other prospects. They all look like 2nd round picks (or later) that will be over-drafted out of desperation to fill a need.

At this stage, I'd rather wait it out and see how Dalton performs under a new coaching staff. If Dalton shows no improvement or still chokes away a playoff game, then I'd look elsewhere. Hopefully we'll be in a better spot or the QB class is better by then. Fwiw, I said the exact same thing about Palmer in 2011. I wanted to see at least 1 year of him without Bratkowski while Dalton sat and learned. 

Its irrelevant to you lol??  You know what this sounds like? A Dalton supporter that will never ever admit he was wrong.  You've supported him for so long and now your in to deep.  Or you are just clueless and actually think Andy is good.  I'm ready for some more stats Shake to prove your point.  Before you send more stats let me just tell you I don't need to see them. I watch the games and he is bad and always has been.  

[Shake n Blake]

(12-21-2017, 02:07 AM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: Its irrelevant to you lol??  You know what this sounds like? A Dalton supporter that will never ever admit he was wrong.  You've supported him for so long and now your in to deep.  Or you are just clueless and actually think Andy is good.  I'm ready for some more stats Shake to prove your point.  Before you send more stats let me just tell you I don't need to see them. I watch the games and he is bad and always has been.  

Ok.

[Storer50]

Can this team still pick a qb in the 1st,and fix the line in this draft? All of the mocks I have been doing on fanspeak have one of the big qb's available at 8. Rebuilding the line to me hinges on moving back into the 1st for brown, the tackle from Oklahoma, and then Billy price in the 2nd at center. Maybe pick up Boettiger and Quessenberry in the later rounds, but they are definitely not immediate impact guys. Sadly, without some real free agent help, this team can't get back to the playoffs on this draft alone.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk

[Atomic Orange]

Draft Lamar Jackson

[bengalsturntup926]

I seen there was some actual Dalton doubters on this thread so I decided to log in because this is rare. I'm realizing there are just some fans out there that will fight for Dalton to the death as long as he's here. I don't get the reasoning really I don't see how people enjoy watching him,I dont.

Now I think it will come down to the coach hired here,if it's in house,or hue or jay , we might as well forget a qb until 3rd or later to replace McCarron which sucks and I do not want. To me Dalton is not good,but he's not bad . But I think in the NFL you really need good. You need your qb to make plays and have the skill to overcome stuff. You need a qb with confidence ,and when I see Dalton I don't see confidence,he's took on his head coaches personality,the bungals look. Like omg I don't want to lose this.youll never win like that.

Forget the stats. Because a lot of qbs can get stats in today's NFL, look at case keenum this year,he's having a identical Dalton 2015 year without the injury at the end. And I will swear by it,case keenum will not get them to a Superbowl or win it,I'd bet money,neither will Bridgewater. Let's evaluate Dalton as a qb. He's inconsistent accuracy wise ,doesn't step up in the pocket or have proper mechanics and footwork inside the pocket, does not possess hardly any scrambling ability. His strengths are playing to the system in a fast quick read throws. Picture the greenbay game and that's his strengths. Every time they ask him to drop back and scan ,this is his weakness. He's just not that qb . He's terrible with pressure because of his flaws. Like another member pointed out he will run around in one spot and run right into a defender,or he will run to the right shrinking the field,hoping he can find someone which he might a quarter of the time. He has good velocity on his throws ,but it's weird because he still don't have a big arm or live arm.

Do you want to know why people want to see McCarron? It's because he's confident,he has proper mechanics in the pocket and knows how to buy a couple more seconds sliding in the pocket,or up in the pocket. Where McCarron flaws is he doesn't have velocity on his throws or a big arm either,he's captain check down and that makes people believe he just straight sucks because it's boring football. Every time they have played McCarron they do not give McCarron the Andy Dalton playbook of fast throws,like screens ,slants ,designed plays where Dalton does not not have to really scan the field. They have McCarron drop back and scan about every time it's weird ,maybe it's because of the velocity on his throws idk.

McCarron would need a lot more practice and a lot more games to judge him really but he doesnt have a big arm and bores me so my conclusion is go for one in the draft. The only star qb I'm seeing is baker mayfield,he's the only one I really really want. I got question marks on all the rest. I seriously doubt we'd get lucky and get Mayfield. So I say just go for a big arm qb and coach him up and see what he can become . I'm really Leary on Lamar Jackson because he's more of a runner and the way he talks he sounds slow,you need brains to really win. How's he going to communicate at the line ? If he isn't that bright.i just don't see Lamar Jackson going deep into the playoffs. The other strong arms would be darnold, allen,and Rudolph. That's all I know of . Havnt seen the other qbs in the draft . Rosen I'd stay away from,what I've seen is he's only a pocket passer and he's inconsistent.

My opinion I think we'd hit the lottery on Mayfield and a new coach but I don't think good things happen to my favorite team. I'll be sad when he gets drafted by someone else,and watch him be a star in the NFL. Darnold looks almost identical to Palmer to me that could be a direction we could go. But I think he would take 2-3 years to develop. Just like Carson did.

[*bfine32*]

(12-21-2017, 02:07 AM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: Its irrelevant to you lol??  You know what this sounds like? A Dalton supporter that will never ever admit he was wrong.  You've supported him for so long and now your in to deep.  Or you are just clueless and actually think Andy is good.  I'm ready for some more stats Shake to prove your point.  Before you send more stats let me just tell you I don't need to see them. I watch the games and he is bad and always has been.  

Folks like stats until they no longer support their opinion. 

I will say Dalton is not bad; however, I will also say he is easily replaceable.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-21-2017, 02:04 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Case Keenam stands in the pocket n throws a pretty bowl.  Bortles is getting carried by his team.  much like Dalton his first 5 years.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-21-2017, 08:35 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks like stats until they no longer support their opinion. 

This is true. For example, I didn't see you bringing up passer rating rankings for several weeks. 

Now that Dalton has fallen 7-8 spots over the last couple weeks (when the consensus from non-Dalton haters is that the team quit), suddenly we should talk about his ranking.

[Hoofhearted]

(12-21-2017, 12:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This is true. For example, I didn't see you bringing up passer rating rankings for several weeks. 

Now that Dalton has fallen 7-8 spots over the last couple weeks (when the consensus from non-Dalton haters is that the team quit), suddenly we should talk about his ranking.

Is that much different than only judging his PrimeTime performances "since 2.0"?

Quote:89.6 rating in prime time since the 2.0 game (11 games)

[*Nately120*]

(12-21-2017, 02:04 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Case Keenam stands in the pocket n throws a pretty bowl.  Bortles is getting carried by his team.  much like Dalton his first 5 years.

Bort Bortles has been playing very well the past 3 games...I suspect he will fall apart just in time to play the Steelers in the playoffs, though.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-21-2017, 12:51 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Is that much different than only judging his PrimeTime performances "since 2.0"?

Um yes, because "since 2.0" is just showing his improvement since that game. It's relevant. These last 2 games have been very irrelevant.

Are you honestly going to argue that the team hasn't quit?

[Hoofhearted]

(12-21-2017, 01:04 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Um yes, because "since 2.0" is just showing his improvement since that game. It's relevant. These last 2 games have been very irrelevant.

Are you honestly going to argue that the team hasn't quit?

It’s relevant because it fits what you’re arguing. Likewise, critiquing his bad play regardless of if team quit or not fits other people’s narrative. Everyone has their opinions on him and there’s plenty of ammo to support both is all I’m saying