How Marvin Lewis bungled his message to the players

[Shake n Blake]

(12-20-2017, 07:25 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I don't know why anyone here would be surprised if he did this.  After the 2010 season he publicly stated he wasn't going to remain the coach here unless certain changes were made and then he caved-in and stuck around for another blissful 7 (at least!) seasons.  This time if he says he's going to go and then sticks around we might not have a player demanding a trade to take the attention off of it.

Marvin's done this before, folks.  Prepare yourself for the worst, just in case.

Oh it's crossed my mind that this is all just posturing by Marv. I'm mentally prepared in case a "surprise" extension happens.

[jj22]

All that posturing talk is a downing dose of reality.

Attendance has to be worse than it was in 2010, right? I mean back then we at least had to give away tickets to "sellout". Local advertisers feared blackouts. Fans feared blackouts and in turn bought tickets.

Now Kroger ain't nowhere to be found. Fans, find home (and a cheap bottle of whiskey) is where the heart is to suffer through the game. The stadium has been empty. Embarrassingly, and that's bad. We at least used to pull it together for primetime games, I mean, even if you had to donate a can of beans to get in.

Maybe, just maybe MB's pockets got pinched this season (and not by his depends).

Let's hope.

[jowczarski]

@DepthChart – that was my story
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/12/17/marvin-lewis-surprises-bengals-opting-not-return-2018/959164001/

The Bengals were always open to talking to Marvin after the season about his future. That has been the case for 15 years, that was going to be the case on Jan. 1, 2018. But it did not mean that he was indeed “coming back.” There was a reason the organization did not extend him in the offseason. They wanted to see this team reach its potential. Suffice to say, it has not.

And yes, I think it’s fair to say he wasn’t ready for that to come out when it did and wasn’t prepared for all that followed.

@WeezyBengal & @Nately120 (The contract technically goes beyond Dec. 31, just an FYI.) It’s not the message that surprised everyone, but the timing and the fact he didn’t tell his staff or his players before the world found out. That’s the problem everyone in the building had.

As for the just owning part – that’s what everyone wants as well. But, it didn’t happen.

@sonofstat – You are 100 percent right about Green in this instance.

@TheLeonardLeap & @bengalfan74 I get what you’re saying, considering the no playoff success. But actually, Lewis’ tenure is widely considered a success. Believe it or not, most NFL general managers and coaches I talk to don’t count Super Bowl appearances as success. They know how hard that is, and that the Patriots are an unbelievable outlier. So yes, Lewis is considered very successful in league circles. But I get the fan perspective, for sure.

@Goalpost – you’re right about that process after the 2010 season. Very weird and that press conference has lived in infamy. The one thing they learned from that is this – in all the years after, they always announced his extensions via press release. In this particular moment, I think if Lewis would have owned it – you may have seen a smoother transition out re: public comments. But since he denied and denied … really not much the team could say about it.

[Sled21]

IF, as the article says, Marvin is ready to move into a Front Office position, I hope it is here. While I absolutely 100% do not want him back as a coach, I think he would make a tremendous GM, or at least some form of GM to help Katie take this ship over..... I so wanted MB to move ML to GM and make Zimmer head coach instead of letting him leave the building.

[masonbengals fan]

I thought that I wanted him as the Bengals GM up until the last few days. Now I’m starting to question that.

[Hoofhearted]

(12-20-2017, 07:41 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Good article, Jim, thanks.

That said, I have to say I disagree with that bit at the end that Marvin will be the "most successful coach in franchise history". When the Bengals inevitably lose out (the last two weeks have shown zero sign that they won't), Marvin will be exactly 2 games over .500 overall (123-121-3) with a HORRIBLE primetime record, HORRIBLE Steelers record, and the worst ever postseason record in NFL history. His team also always looked ill-prepared against good teams, and halftime adjustments were mere journalistic jargon, despite other teams crushing his with them. That is hardly the most successful when you finish 2 over .500 and 0 postseason wins in 15 years.

Sam Wyche and Forrest Gregg are still more successful coaches than Marvin Lewis. Both took the Bengals to a SB (their only two) and account for all 5 of the franchise's postseason wins.  Gregg finished 7 over .500 (34-27). Wyche might have finished 4 under .500 overall (64-68), but would you prefer 4 under .500 and a SB apperance, or 2 over .500 and 0 postseason wins?

Winning over a hundred NFL games is no easy task. I would say tolerable would probably be a better adjective. But yea, like Jimbo said I would take Gregg or Wyche over Marv any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

But I'd also take Marv over Shula, Coslet or Lebeau. He's basically the most average coach you can think of, which seemingly meshes well with the Bengals aspirations.

[Hoofhearted]

(12-21-2017, 12:12 AM)jowczarski Wrote: @DepthChart – that was my story
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/12/17/marvin-lewis-surprises-bengals-opting-not-return-2018/959164001/

The Bengals were always open to talking to Marvin after the season about his future. That has been the case for 15 years, that was going to be the case on Jan. 1, 2018. But it did not mean that he was indeed “coming back.” There was a reason the organization did not extend him in the offseason. They wanted to see this team reach its potential. Suffice to say, it has not.

And yes, I think it’s fair to say he wasn’t ready for that to come out when it did and wasn’t prepared for all that followed.

@WeezyBengal & @Nately120 (The contract technically goes beyond Dec. 31, just an FYI.) It’s not the message that surprised everyone, but the timing and the fact he didn’t tell his staff or his players before the world found out. That’s the problem everyone in the building had.

As for the just owning part – that’s what everyone wants as well. But, it didn’t happen.

@sonofstat – You are 100 percent right about Green in this instance.

@TheLeonardLeap & @bengalfan74 I get what you’re saying, considering the no playoff success. But actually, Lewis’ tenure is widely considered a success. Believe it or not, most NFL general managers and coaches I talk to don’t count Super Bowl appearances as success. They know how hard that is, and that the Patriots are an unbelievable outlier. So yes, Lewis is considered very successful in league circles. But I get the fan perspective, for sure.

@Goalpost – you’re right about that process after the 2010 season. Very weird and that press conference has lived in infamy. The one thing they learned from that is this – in all the years after, they always announced his extensions via press release. In this particular moment, I think if Lewis would have owned it – you may have seen a smoother transition out re: public comments. But since he denied and denied … really not much the team could say about it.

I am baffled by the bolded statement. Winning your conference is not a success? How is that?

[*ochocincos*]

Marvin has acted like such a brat this year. He has developed such a pissy attitude.
The team should have moved on from him after the Steelers playoff debacle (if not years before that).

[Benton]

Personally, I think Marvin told Schefter as a way to force the Browns to make a move on offering him a new contract. I think he wants to return to Cincinnati, but Brown hasn't offered a new deal and he was afraid he would get into some weird offseason situation of not being renewed, but not fully away from the team, either.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-21-2017, 12:12 AM)jowczarski Wrote: The Bengals were always open to talking to Marvin after the season about his future. That has been the case for 15 years, that was going to be the case on Jan. 1, 2018. But it did not mean that he was indeed “coming back.” There was a reason the organization did not extend him in the offseason. They wanted to see this team reach its potential. Suffice to say, it has not.

And yes, I think it’s fair to say he wasn’t ready for that to come out when it did and wasn’t prepared for all that followed.

It simply not true to say this team hasn't reached it's potential.  They were poor last year with a 6-9-1 record and the personnel moves made by the front office in the off season ensured they would be worse and the team has lived up to that.  Hell, if they get 6 wins or more they have over achieved.

Marvin's been a perennial lame duck coach operating on one year extensions for, what?  Four consecutive seasons?  If the owner or coach isn't committed enough to sign a contract for more than one freakin' year at a time then one side obviously doesn't believe in the other side.  If that is the case, they shouldn't have been doing the deal any way.  Just another indicator at how poorly Mike Brown is as a general manager.

[bengals67]

I want Lewis gone.

Everyone in "management" is responsible for last 3 or 4 drafts which have been poor, let Marvin Jones go and have never replaced him, have kept Bodine- the undisputed worst center in the league for last 4 years, wasted AJ Green, Geno and even Andy by keeping Bodine, letting Whit and Z walk and not even trying to replace them in free agency or draft, completely over-valued the abilities of Og and Fisher, and have run a franchise with unprecedented poor records in prime time, against main rival, in playoffs etc.

This franchise needs a complete and total shakeup.

I truly do not see how the team survives I Cincinnati if Mike brown re-hires Marv, keeps Alexander, and just does more of the same.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-21-2017, 11:14 AM)Benton Wrote: Personally, I think Marvin told Schefter as a way to force the Browns to make a move on offering him a new contract. I think he wants to return to Cincinnati, but Brown hasn't offered a new deal and he was afraid he would get into some weird offseason situation of not being renewed, but not fully away from the team, either.

I've never seen a coach look less interested in coaching a team than Marvin Lewis has looked this season.  He is so apathetic he doesn't think it is his job to motivate players to play.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-21-2017, 11:46 AM)bengals67 Wrote: I want Lewis gone.

Everyone in "management" is responsible for last 3 or 4 drafts which have been poor, let Marvin Jones go and have never replaced him, have kept Bodine- the undisputed worst center in the league for last 4 years, wasted AJ Green, Geno and even Andy by keeping Bodine, letting Whit and Z walk and not even trying to replace them in free agency or draft, completely over-valued the abilities of Og and Fisher, and have run a franchise with unprecedented poor records in prime time, against main rival, in playoffs etc.

This franchise needs a complete and total shakeup.

I truly do not see how the team survives I Cincinnati if Mike brown re-hires Marv, keeps Alexander, and just does more of the same.

Totally agree !

If Mike Brown doesn't make some major moves this off season we will see the demise of the Cincinnati Bengals.

[Bengalholic]

(12-21-2017, 11:40 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: It simply not true to say this team hasn't reached it's potential.  They were poor last year with a 6-9-1 record and the personnel moves made by the front office in the off season ensured they would be worse and the team has lived up to that.  Hell, if they get 6 wins or more they have over achieved.

Marvin's been a perennial lame duck coach operating on one year extensions for, what?  Four consecutive seasons?  If the owner or coach isn't committed enough to sign a contract for more than one freakin' year at a time then one side obviously doesn't believe in the other side.  If that is the case, they shouldn't have been doing the deal any way.  Just another indicator at how poorly Mike Brown is as a general manager.

Marvin received a 2 year deal in 2011. In 2012, he got a two year extension to that contract, which signed him through 2014. In 2013, he got a one year extension through 2015. In 2015, he signed an extension through 2016. I 2016, he signed an extension through this year. Basically, his original 2011 contract has be extended 4 times.

IMO, very good arguments can be made that the 2011 contract and the last 2 extensions weren't even warranted, but unfortunately Mike, Katie and the crew disagreed.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-21-2017, 09:53 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: I thought that I wanted him as the Bengals GM up until the last few days. Now I’m starting to question that.

Ditto. He's looked very selfish this year. Hopefully he doesn't try to convince Mike that the losing is happening because of his shaky contract situation. 

(12-21-2017, 11:14 AM)Benton Wrote: Personally, I think Marvin told Schefter as a way to force the Browns to make a move on offering him a new contract. I think he wants to return to Cincinnati, but Brown hasn't offered a new deal and he was afraid he would get into some weird offseason situation of not being renewed, but not fully away from the team, either.

I said it weeks ago and people scoffed, but I'm with ya. I don't think Marv will ever want to give up his current position. I think he's very comfortable here.

If he's fired, I don't think he'd take a HC job elsewhere, but like I said, he's very comfy in Cincy.

(12-21-2017, 11:48 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I've never seen a coach look less interested in coaching a team than Marvin Lewis has looked this season.  He is so apathetic he doesn't think it is his job to motivate players to play.

That could also be the look of someone who hates coaching with his contract situation unsettled, right?

[grampahol]

Ehem.. Never underestimate the power of the history of sliced bread.. There's a metaphor here, Marvin being it.
Marvin IS sliced bread..He's the greatest hc coach of the Bengals since Marvin .

Anyone remember the commercials with the character Melvin? Don't hire a Melvin? The Bengals managed to do just that. 

[*Nately120*]

(12-21-2017, 11:48 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I've never seen a coach look less interested in coaching a team than Marvin Lewis has looked this season.  He is so apathetic he doesn't think it is his job to motivate players to play.

In Marvin's defense, many of us here can probably relate to the lack of enthusiasm we had going into, and progressing along with this season.  We had a feeling our personnel moves, and lack thereof, made this off-season put this team behind the eight ball if it didn't outright sink things before snap #1.

If Marvin Lewis spent this season acting enthused and peppy I'd either be annoyed at him for being so fake, or demand a "random" drug screening be done on him.  Basically, which HC's can you think of that wouldn't look dead inside following a 6-9-1 season by letting the o-line get worse and then spending a top 10 pick on yet another WR.  I'm no Marvin fan and this team is DOA right now, but I can't blame the guy for not looking like the Chesire Cat all year.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-21-2017, 12:39 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Ditto. He's looked very selfish this year. Hopefully he doesn't try to convince Mike that the losing is happening because of his shaky contract situation. 


I said it weeks ago and people scoffed, but I'm with ya. I don't think Marv will ever want to give up his current position. I think he's very comfortable here.

If he's fired, I don't think he'd take a HC job elsewhere, but like I said, he's very comfy in Cincy.


That could also be the look of someone who hates coaching with his contract situation unsettled, right?

That's not my impression. He seems like a guy with an Army short timer's attitude: he has tolerated all the BS he can and intends to do the bare minimum until he can GTFO and move on to the next phase of his life. Basically, just going through the motions of his patented side line hand clap. Case of beer says he's just mouthing the words, "Let's go. "

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-21-2017, 12:54 PM)grampahol Wrote: Ehem.. Never underestimate the power of the history of sliced bread.. There's a metaphor here, Marvin being it.
Marvin IS sliced bread..He's the greatest hc coach of the Bengals since Marvin .

Anyone remember the commercials with the character Melvin? Don't hire a Melvin? The Bengals managed to do just that. 

We've been Munsoned.....

[grampahol]

Maybe Marv will write his memoirs, a tell-all book to set the record straight on the business of doing business with the Brown.. It could be very interesting. I personally have a hunch ol Mikey is up to his ears with out of town (or even in town) shady characters to keep the team as perennial losers, but then Marv would probably be putting his own life in jeopardy..
I love a good conspiracy theory..