Dre Kirkpatrick - a legit concern

[Shake n Blake]

(12-10-2017, 11:09 PM)swilson3828 Wrote: Uhhhhha terrible season?  His career has been terrible.

He played well in his contract year. Now he has his contract, and he's back to being awful.

[muskiesfan]

I think there were 2 things that lead to this contract. 1) The Steelers were said to have interest. I have no idea how much fire there was to go with that smoke, but preventing him from going to Pittsburgh helped drive up his price. 2) They team has a **** ton of cap space and let Whitworth and Zeitler walk out the door. Yes I know they at least offered Whitworth a contract, but they didn't bother with Zeitler. With all of that money and their top 2 free agents gone, they simply HAD to spend money. DreK should send some very nice Christmas gifts to Whit and Z for helping him land his ridiculous contract.

DreK will most likely be here until his contract is up. Since the Bengals way tends to be that the highest paid is the most played, he's going to be the starter for the next few years. I expect they don't keep Dennard because he may be expensive later and they're tired of hearing about a bench player outperforming someone they gave a stupid contract to. Also, they have a bunch of money tied up in Jones and DreK. I just can't see them spending on Dennard unless he gives them an incredible discount. I hope he doesn't. Go play for a real franchise and have an actual opportunity to play and win a title.

[The Caped Crusader]

He isn't going anywhere.

Would hurt the team tremendously to cut him.

Trading him wouldn't get a pick the team would deem worthy of trading. He has a terrible contract on top of terrible play. It's a Brock Osweiler situation, but on a corner that nobody wants. We would be LUCKY to get a fourth for him.

Funny, the player I wanted, AJ Bouye, is rated the best corner in Football. Should've spent the money, and went that route. His contract was only like 6-8 more than Dre's over the same amount of years. Worth it, considering you have the BEST corner and the 98th corner.

[sonofstat]

We drafted highly 2 CB's in Wjax and Dennard who have shown they can both be qood quality starting CB's...yet we had already decided to pay DreK handsomely basically on the strength of one decent season.

We drafted highly 2 OL in Ced and Fish who thus far have shown they are below average starting players...yet we decided not to extend either Whit or Zeitler.

I agree with the sentiment that DreK got very lucky with the timing of his contract renewal....once we had not kept MJones and Sanu the previous year and Zeit / Whit the following he managed to sneak in and get his payday.

He's going nowhere and we'll end up having a handsomely paid 3rd CB next year when we could desperately do with investing cap in OL, LB or even FS

[Shake n Blake]

(12-09-2017, 06:54 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Dre's pro football focus rating for the entire season is around 49. That's 49 out of a possible 100. On pro football focus's scale that equates to a rating of "poor".

That rating would put him around 98tb best corner in the league for the season. 98th. That's close to dead last.

Dre Kirkpatrick is making 52 million dollars and just signed an extension in the off season.

This is a legit problem. Does Dre's poor play, large salary, and the emergence of Dennard and Jackson make him a cut candidate in the off-season?

It should, but it won't. 

Yet again, this is a problem with how Mike Brown operates. He offers little guaranteed money on contracts, and in exhange, he offers extreme loyalty regardless of performance. This means...

1. We will never be players in free agency, where guaranteed money is important.

2. We will keep players whose performance doesn't match up with their salary. In a league with a salary cap, carrying around dead weight like Dre Kirkpatrick can be crippling. Not only is he a bad player, he's taking a good chunk of cap space. 

No other team operates like this. Yet another way Mike Brown makes the Bengals "unique".

[Socal Bengals fan]

AJ Bouye is amazing. best corner in football allows the Jags to play man on the outside n zone with their linebackers. but instead ee have trash Kirkpatrick who cant do a damn thing right

[SunsetBengal]

(12-20-2017, 05:15 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: He isn't going anywhere.

Would hurt the team tremendously to cut him.

Trading him wouldn't get a pick the team would deem worthy of trading. He has a terrible contract on top of terrible play. It's a Brock Osweiler situation, but on a corner that nobody wants. We would be LUCKY to get a fourth for him.

Funny, the player I wanted, AJ Bouye, is rated the best corner in Football. Should've spent the money, and went that route. His contract was only like 6-8 more than Dre's over the same amount of years. Worth it, considering you have the BEST corner and the 98th corner.

Is it the player, or the coach?  The secondary has seemed to maintain a state of disarray, ever since Coyle was brought back.  

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-20-2017, 05:15 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: He isn't going anywhere.

Would hurt the team tremendously to cut him.

Trading him wouldn't get a pick the team would deem worthy of trading. He has a terrible contract on top of terrible play. It's a Brock Osweiler situation, but on a corner that nobody wants. We would be LUCKY to get a fourth for him.

Funny, the player I wanted, AJ Bouye, is rated the best corner in Football. Should've spent the money, and went that route. His contract was only like 6-8 more than Dre's over the same amount of years. Worth it, considering you have the BEST corner and the 98th corner.

You lost MB at "spend money"

[jowczarski]

All I'll say is he will not be cut until the start of the 2020 season at the earliest, when there would only be a $2.4 million dead cap hit. Being released before 2021 would be a $1.4 million cap hit. Safe to say, get used to 27.

The only thing that will be interesting to watch is if a new coaching staff comes in, how that goes. They'll be paying Dennard $8.5 million next year and have to decide if they want to extend him. WJ3 should've been a Pro Bowl alternate this year, IMO, and I agree with Marvin that he will be an All-Pro. He's that good. And in two years, you'll need to pick up his fifth-year option and extend him if he stays on this path. So, does a new coach/staff "get more" out of 27? If it's a completely new hire (i.e. not an internal) they may have no loyalty to 27, and let 21 and 23 start. I guess we'll know in August/September. But he's here.

[PDub80]

(12-09-2017, 06:54 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Dre's pro football focus rating for the entire season is around 49. That's 49 out of a possible 100. On pro football focus's scale that equates to a rating of "poor".

That rating would put him around 98tb best corner in the league for the season. 98th. That's close to dead last.

Dre Kirkpatrick is making 52 million dollars and just signed an extension in the off season.

This is a legit problem. Does Dre's poor play, large salary, and the emergence of Dennard and Jackson make him a cut candidate in the off-season?

LOL... Did you need the Pro Football Focus rating to confirm that Bustpatrick sucks? every year he's played PFF has had him ranked as one of the worst CBs in the entire league. I think this is 3 straight like that?

During the Monday night game, in the 2nd half when they started coming back, the Steelers started throwing at him nearly every pass play they ran. Over and over again. Whoever DreK lined up against was thrown to. Bell, Smith-Schuster, Brown, Bryant. it didn't matter. They picked on him because it was going to either be 1 of 2 things... A completion or a penalty.

The coaching staff has refused to play WJ3 regularly (until injury) despite him playing outstanding ball, but WJ3 has been ranked very highly according to PFF grades. Small sample size, I know, but if you have a guy who is considered one of the worst, why not work a new face in more often to see what they have?

In the off season, I hope a new coach recommends cutting DreK and using his cap space for a lineman or two. I would be fine doing that and then drafting another CB in the first if need be. Bustpatrick sucks. hated the pick then, gave it time and a chance.... hate the pick now.

Positive note on DreK... He seems to love it in Cincy. But, then again, who wouldn't given that he sucks and they play and pay him a lot).

[PDub80]

(12-22-2017, 12:56 AM)jowczarski Wrote: All I'll say is he will not be cut until the start of the 2020 season at the earliest, when there would only be a $2.4 million dead cap hit. Being released before 2021 would be a $1.4 million cap hit. Safe to say, get used to 27.

The only thing that will be interesting to watch is if a new coaching staff comes in, how that goes. They'll be paying Dennard $8.5 million next year and have to decide if they want to extend him. WJ3 should've been a Pro Bowl alternate this year, IMO, and I agree with Marvin that he will be an All-Pro. He's that good. And in two years, you'll need to pick up his fifth-year option and extend him if he stays on this path. So, does a new coach/staff "get more" out of 27? If it's a completely new hire (i.e. not an internal) they may have no loyalty to 27, and let 21 and 23 start. I guess we'll know in August/September. But he's here.

Jim,

Wanted to say that I listen to all of you local guys and your podcasts and really appreciate all of your work you put in.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-22-2017, 12:56 AM)jowczarski Wrote: All I'll say is he will not be cut until the start of the 2020 season at the earliest, when there would only be a $2.4 million dead cap hit. Being released before 2021 would be a $1.4 million cap hit. Safe to say, get used to 27.

The only thing that will be interesting to watch is if a new coaching staff comes in, how that goes. They'll be paying Dennard $8.5 million next year and have to decide if they want to extend him. WJ3 should've been a Pro Bowl alternate this year, IMO, and I agree with Marvin that he will be an All-Pro. He's that good. And in two years, you'll need to pick up his fifth-year option and extend him if he stays on this path. So, does a new coach/staff "get more" out of 27? If it's a completely new hire (i.e. not an internal) they may have no loyalty to 27, and let 21 and 23 start. I guess we'll know in August/September. But he's here.

I think you touch on an interesting subject here.  From all accounts I've heard, Marvin is a player's coach.  Maybe you get a guy that comes in and says "produce, or sit", and people play with a little fear of losing their job.  Maybe a fresh set of eyes sees something they can tweak in some of these guys' games to get them to play better.  Who knows.  One thing's for sure in my eyes, there hasn't been a whole lot of accountability under Marvin's watch.  This needs to change.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-22-2017, 09:51 AM)PDub80 Wrote: LOL... Did you need the Pro Football Focus rating to confirm that Bustpatrick sucks? every year he's played PFF has had him ranked as one of the worst CBs in the entire league. I think this is 3 straight like that?

During the Monday night game, in the 2nd half when they started coming back, the Steelers started throwing at him nearly every pass play they ran. Over and over again. Whoever DreK lined up against was thrown to. Bell, Smith-Schuster, Brown, Bryant. it didn't matter. They picked on him because it was going to either be 1 of 2 things... A completion or a penalty.

The coaching staff has refused to play WJ3 regularly (until injury) despite him playing outstanding ball, but WJ3 has been ranked very highly according to PFF grades. Small sample size, I know, but if you have a guy who is considered one of the worst, why not work a new face in more often to see what they have?

In the off season, I hope a new coach recommends cutting DreK and using his cap space for a lineman or two. I would be fine doing that and then drafting another CB in the first if need be. Bustpatrick sucks. hated the pick then, gave it time and a chance.... hate the pick now.

Positive note on DreK... He seems to love it in Cincy. But, then again, who wouldn't given that he sucks and they play and pay him a lot).

......wondering where all of the DreK apologists have been in this thread?

[grampahol]

(12-10-2017, 12:04 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Even if cut, that cap savings wouldn't be used on players. It'd go to the Mikey retirement fund.

If it meant actual retirement and giving up I'd cut the entire team and eat all their salaries. Hell, even sell the stadium and make it into a really nice practice field for the Reds. 

[grampahol]

(12-22-2017, 11:21 AM)Wyche Wrote: ......wondering where all of the DreK apologists have been in this thread?

I'll take the lead. I'm sorry we have him. I apologize. 

[BengalChris]

(12-22-2017, 11:54 AM)grampahol Wrote: If it meant actual retirement and giving up I'd cut the entire team and eat all their salaries. Hell, even sell the stadium and make it into a really nice practice field for the Reds. 

For sure!

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-22-2017, 11:57 AM)grampahol Wrote: I'll take the lead. I'm sorry we have him. I apologize. 

:andy:

[sandwedge]

(12-20-2017, 08:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Is it the player, or the coach?  The secondary has seemed to maintain a state of disarray, ever since Coyle was brought back.  

I said this when Coyle came back here. Our entire secondary played a lot better in between Coyle's stints here. Miami's defense took a nose dive with him as the DC down there.... Never liked him.  With that all said, Dre has been liability and teams are going him after more. The biggest problem i see if we were to give him his walking papers (doubt that happens) is you can almost guarantee a CB with our first pick.