Guard Play - Westerman and Redmond

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-25-2017, 10:53 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: We also saw line play that wasn't passive.

I know it's the Lions...  but derp.  It actually worked.

Just try to convince me that this mouth breather doesn't survive on a healthy dose of his own boogers.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-25-2017, 03:57 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: I loved being proved right to myself.. I knew Marvin should of tinkered with the o line. Really we only have two bad o lineman . Bodine and ced. Why wasn't westerman or boling trained to be a center. I'm sure one of them could of learned it. Then we could upgrade the middle. We don't have a guard problem . We need just one left tackle to replace whit. Because ced is a turnstile and soft.

We have four bad linemen, and two serviceable linemen.....coming into the Detroit game.

Og-  one of the worst LTs in the HISTORY of the game

Fish-  subpar RT at best

Dre- stop gap serviceable RT

Boling- typically serviceable to decent LG....had a rough season

Bodine- consistently one of the worst C's in the league.

Hopkins- has shown signs, but graded bad....his replacements were even worse.

Winston-  two days older than dirt, and never was that great.


As to "training" a guy to Center if he's never played it....it's not that easy.  Snapping the ball, especially in the gun, and then engaging in the block is much harder than you think.  How do I know?  I switched from LG to C my junior year.....and it was much harder than I ever imagined it would be.  You MUST make sure the snap is clean and the exchange flawless FIRST, then execute your assignment.  Sounds easier than it is.....if you've never played the position.....and this is just at the high school level.  Before any of that even happens, you have to learn defensive alignments I.D. them, try to I.D. stunts and blitzes pre-snap, and call the blocking assignments accordingly.

This line MOSTLY needs a new position coach, or it will be more of the same....even with a new HC.  On top of that, they need both tackles, a center....and most likely another guard unless this one performance isn't beginners luck.

That's the problem with this bullshit coaching staff.  It's hard to evaluate ANYONE on this roster with the ******* decisions they make.  I don't see how one thread, we deride the staff, then on another, we chastise a player.  Makes ZERO sense.  It ABSOLUTELY is this coaching staff.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-24-2017, 10:21 PM)corpjet Wrote: Both played well today at LG in the rotation.....yet again we see Marvins refusal to play the young guys...........from what we saw today either look more than capable.....I realize this is a one game sample but not bad for their debut.....

Also the shear size of Westerman is mind blowing, the guy is HUGE......

Be interested to see what the left side of the line graded out at today......

G ALEX REDMOND, 84.2 OVERALL GRADE - GOOD

In the most extended action of Redmond’s young career, the second-year guard impressed. He rotated in on 48 snaps and didn’t allow a single pressure. Redmond was also the highest-graded run blocker on the Bengals’ offensive line on the day.


LT CLINT BOLING, 39.9 OVERALL GRADE - NOT GOOD

Boling is not the solution at left tackle for the Bengals anytime soon. He allowed a sack, a hit, and two pressures on the day along with a handful of other losses in pass protection.

I will give Boling a bit of a pass moving to LT against Ansah....but this is yet another example of Marv being a dick.  Westerman and Redmond should have been competing for C and G all season.  Sticking with the status quo and just saying stupid things like "we have to be better" is begging for failure.  Mission accomplished, Marv, you douche. 

[SunsetBengal]

(12-26-2017, 11:33 AM)Wyche Wrote: We have four bad linemen, and two serviceable linemen.....coming into the Detroit game.

Og-  one of the worst LTs in the HISTORY of the game

Fish-  subpar RT at best

Dre- stop gap serviceable RT

Boling- typically serviceable to decent LG....had a rough season

Bodine- consistently one of the worst C's in the league.

Hopkins- has shown signs, but graded bad....his replacements were even worse.

Winston-  two days older than dirt, and never was that great.


As to "training" a guy to Center if he's never played it....it's not that easy.  Snapping the ball, especially in the gun, and then engaging in the block is much harder than you think.  How do I know?  I switched from LG to C my junior year.....and it was much harder than I ever imagined it would be.  You MUST make sure the snap is clean and the exchange flawless FIRST, then execute your assignment.  Sounds easier than it is.....if you've never played the position.....and this is just at the high school level.  Before any of that even happens, you have to learn defensive alignments I.D. them, try to I.D. stunts and blitzes pre-snap, and call the blocking assignments accordingly.

This line MOSTLY needs a new position coach, or it will be more of the same....even with a new HC.  On top of that, they need both tackles, a center....and most likely another guard unless this one performance isn't beginners luck.

That's the problem with this bullshit coaching staff.  It's hard to evaluate ANYONE on this roster with the ******* decisions they make.  I don't see how one thread, we deride the staff, then on another, we chastise a player.  Makes ZERO sense.  It ABSOLUTELY is this coaching staff.

You've touched on something that many just don't get;  The Center position, is a very cerebral one.  One that involves much more than just the physical ability to matchup well with larger guys.  

For the most part, just about any Tackle can be kicked down to Guard, and they'll be just fine.  The same just isn't true of the Center position.  

This team has been lacking serious quality at the C position since Richie Braham was here.  That was what, like 10 years ago?  For a brief moment, we thought we had an up and comer in Kyle Cook.  But once again it was proven that it's much tougher to be The Man, than it is to be the man off the bench.

Every year, we watch teams draft a top Center, or sign a top quality Center in free agency, and then like magic whatever was causing their offensive line woes seems to have been cured.  Strange coincidence, isn't it?

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-25-2017, 03:57 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: I loved being proved right to myself.. I knew Marvin should of tinkered with the o line. Really we only have two bad o lineman . Bodine and ced. Why wasn't westerman or boling trained to be a center. I'm sure one of them could of learned it. Then we could upgrade the middle. We don't have a guard problem . We need just one left tackle to replace whit. Because ced is a turnstile and soft.

Disagree completely.  Most of the Bengals deficiencies in protection and the run game come right up the middle. 

This team had the dead-last ranked Guard (Hopkins) and one of the worst Centers (Bodine) and that was the biggest problem in the offense.  

[*SHRacerX*]

Did anyone see what Westerman was ranked in PFF?

[SunsetBengal]

(12-26-2017, 12:29 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I will give Boling a bit of a pass moving to LT against Ansah....but this is yet another example of Marv being a dick.  Westerman and Redmond should have been competing for C and G all season.  Sticking with the status quo and just saying stupid things like "we have to be better" is begging for failure.  Mission accomplished, Marv, you douche. 

I wouldn't put a lot of stock into a one week performance, late in the season, against a very pedestrian defense.  

To me, it looks more like "fresh legs syndrome".  Where the guy coming off the bench looks fresh and strong, as he hasn't endured an entire season of getting his body beat to a pulp, week after week.

Heck, we experienced the same phenomenon last year at the RB position, with Rex Burkhead.  Then, when the Patriots signed him, everyone claimed he was now going to be a superstar.  He's had an alright season, for a team that knows how to get the most out of it's talent.  He leads the league, or even conference in no categories.  Much tougher to be The Man, than to be the man off the bench.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-26-2017, 12:36 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I wouldn't put a lot of stock into a one week performance, late in the season, against a very pedestrian defense.  

To me, it looks more like "fresh legs syndrome".  Where the guy coming off the bench looks fresh and strong, as he hasn't endured an entire season of getting his body beat to a pulp, week after week.

Heck, we experienced the same phenomenon last year at the RB position, with Rex Burkhead.  Then, when the Patriots signed him, everyone claimed he was now going to be a superstar.  He's had an alright season, for a team that knows how to get the most out of it's talent.  He leads the league, or even conference in no categories.  Much tougher to be The Man, than to be the man off the bench.

Redmond is claimed to be the strongest lineman on the team.  He took to the strength and conditioning program like a fish to water, as UCLA had a crap system for that.  Westerman is a beast that has an attitude to go with it.  When you don't even make an effort to push your starters in to the realm of not being complete ass-sucks, it is showing no desire to improve your team.  Competition improves the breed.  

I saw both of these guys on my end of the field (haven't watched the coaches cut, yet, due to this thing called Christmas) and I witnessed a punch in space that blew up defenders.  I loved it.  Hopkins was dead last in the NFL, and always started, ditto Bodine.  They shuffled around the tackle position with Andre once he was in some semblance of shape, but did nothing with the interior...and that was the biggest problem, especially with the rushing attack!

[SunsetBengal]

(12-26-2017, 12:42 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Redmond is claimed to be the strongest lineman on the team.  He took to the strength and conditioning program like a fish to water, as UCLA had a crap system for that.  Westerman is a beast that has an attitude to go with it.  When you don't even make an effort to push your starters in to the realm of not being complete ass-sucks, it is showing no desire to improve your team.  Competition improves the breed.  

I saw both of these guys on my end of the field (haven't watched the coaches cut, yet, due to this thing called Christmas) and I witnessed a punch in space that blew up defenders.  I loved it.  Hopkins was dead last in the NFL, and always started, ditto Bodine.  They shuffled around the tackle position with Andre once he was in some semblance of shape, but did nothing with the interior...and that was the biggest problem, especially with the rushing attack!

What is this?  Are you trying to tell me that we have some aggressive OL that have been hiding on the roster?  Encouraging news, from an educated fan like yourself, is threatening to give this old curmudgeon some hope for the future!

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-26-2017, 12:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You've touched on something that many just don't get;  The Center position, is a very cerebral one.  One that involves much more than just the physical ability to matchup well with larger guys.  

For the most part, just about any Tackle can be kicked down to Guard, and they'll be just fine.  The same just isn't true of the Center position.  

This team has been lacking serious quality at the C position since Richie Braham was here.  That was what, like 10 years ago?  For a brief moment, we thought we had an up and comer in Kyle Cook.  But once again it was proven that it's much tougher to be The Man, than it is to be the man off the bench.

Every year, we watch teams draft a top Center, or sign a top quality Center in free agency, and then like magic whatever was causing their offensive line woes seems to have been cured.  Strange coincidence, isn't it?

Very strange isn't it?  It's the world that's wrong, and Son of Paul is right.

It's no coincidence that for a brief moment in time, we had an offensive juggernaut....with Richie Braham anchoring the oline.

[bengals67]

(12-26-2017, 11:33 AM)Wyche Wrote: We have four bad linemen, and two serviceable linemen.....coming into the Detroit game.

Og-  one of the worst LTs in the HISTORY of the game

Fish-  subpar RT at best

Dre- stop gap serviceable RT

Boling- typically serviceable to decent LG....had a rough season

Bodine- consistently one of the worst C's in the league.

Hopkins- has shown signs, but graded bad....his replacements were even worse.

Winston-  two days older than dirt, and never was that great.


As to "training" a guy to Center if he's never played it....it's not that easy.  Snapping the ball, especially in the gun, and then engaging in the block is much harder than you think.  How do I know?  I switched from LG to C my junior year.....and it was much harder than I ever imagined it would be.  You MUST make sure the snap is clean and the exchange flawless FIRST, then execute your assignment.  Sounds easier than it is.....if you've never played the position.....and this is just at the high school level.  Before any of that even happens, you have to learn defensive alignments I.D. them, try to I.D. stunts and blitzes pre-snap, and call the blocking assignments accordingly.

This line MOSTLY needs a new position coach, or it will be more of the same....even with a new HC.  On top of that, they need both tackles, a center....and most likely another guard unless this one performance isn't beginners luck.

That's the problem with this bullshit coaching staff.  It's hard to evaluate ANYONE on this roster with the ******* decisions they make.  I don't see how one thread, we deride the staff, then on another, we chastise a player.  Makes ZERO sense.  It ABSOLUTELY is this coaching staff.

why I nominated Wyche Warrior to be new Owner/GM/coach

:andy: :andy: :andy:

[bengalsturntup926]

(12-26-2017, 12:36 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I wouldn't put a lot of stock into a one week performance, late in the season, against a very pedestrian defense.  

To me, it looks more like "fresh legs syndrome".  Where the guy coming off the bench looks fresh and strong, as he hasn't endured an entire season of getting his body beat to a pulp, week after week.

Heck, we experienced the same phenomenon last year at the RB position, with Rex Burkhead.  Then, when the Patriots signed him, everyone claimed he was now going to be a superstar.  He's had an alright season, for a team that knows how to get the most out of it's talent.  He leads the league, or even conference in no categories.  Much tougher to be The Man, than to be the man off the bench.

Yeah let's not put a lot of stock into our backups moving guys better then our starters,it would ruin the narrative that the better players play around here. Disregard Dave lapham too.

[bengalsturntup926]

(12-26-2017, 12:36 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I wouldn't put a lot of stock into a one week performance, late in the season, against a very pedestrian defense.  

To me, it looks more like "fresh legs syndrome".  Where the guy coming off the bench looks fresh and strong, as he hasn't endured an entire season of getting his body beat to a pulp, week after week.

Heck, we experienced the same phenomenon last year at the RB position, with Rex Burkhead.  Then, when the Patriots signed him, everyone claimed he was now going to be a superstar.  He's had an alright season, for a team that knows how to get the most out of it's talent.  He leads the league, or even conference in no categories.  Much tougher to be The Man, than to be the man off the bench.

Um has rex burkhead not been a good player in New England? Every time ive watched the pats this year the guy has scored ,but I see you think the best players always play here ,can't ruin that narrative. You're right we have to draft 7 o lineman.

[Derrick]

(12-25-2017, 10:38 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: yeah but give OG a break.  its his fitst year playing left tackle,  he has quick feet n will only get better.  just kidding he ***** sucks balls n needs to be cut. Bodine is worse. both should be flipping burgers

Let them both go to Pittsburgh and they will be turned into all-pros.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-26-2017, 06:49 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Yeah let's not put a lot of stock into our backups moving guys better then our starters,it would ruin the narrative that the better players play around here. Disregard Dave lapham too.

Your post would make more sense, if you would respond to the entire post, rather than just the first line.

Heck, you never know, you might even participate in a fun and enlightening dialogue.

[Madieu Superstar]

(12-26-2017, 12:36 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I wouldn't put a lot of stock into a one week performance, late in the season, against a very pedestrian defense.  

To me, it looks more like "fresh legs syndrome".  Where the guy coming off the bench looks fresh and strong, as he hasn't endured an entire season of getting his body beat to a pulp, week after week.

Heck, we experienced the same phenomenon last year at the RB position, with Rex Burkhead.  Then, when the Patriots signed him, everyone claimed he was now going to be a superstar.  He's had an alright season, for a team that knows how to get the most out of it's talent.  He leads the league, or even conference in no categories.  Much tougher to be The Man, than to be the man off the bench.

I can't believe this is a real post.
So because Burkhead hasn't been better than Leveon Bell, that somehow means his 2016 Week 17 was a fluke?
He's got 8 TD's, 30 catches, and is averaging over 4 yards a carry in 10 GAMES PLAYED.
If you're basing success on leading the conference in categories, you're going to be disappointed hundreds of times over every season. 
No one said Burkhead was going to lead the AFC in rushing this season. Bengals fans felt he would leave and help the Patriots win. He has. Burkhead would help EVERY team win. Because he's a pretty good player. 

[SunsetBengal]

(12-27-2017, 12:04 AM)Madieu Superstar Wrote: I can't believe this is a real post.
So because Burkhead hasn't been better than Leveon Bell, that somehow means his 2016 Week 17 was a fluke?
He's got 8 TD's, 30 catches, and is averaging over 4 yards a carry in 10 GAMES PLAYED.
If you're basing success on leading the conference in categories, you're going to be disappointed hundreds of times over every season. 
No one said Burkhead was going to lead the AFC in rushing this season. Bengals fans felt he would leave and help the Patriots win. He has. Burkhead would help EVERY team win. Because he's a pretty good player. 

Lol, you should have done some reading on here, about the time that Burkhead was signed by the Patriots.  Many were predicting that he was going to be a sudden superstar.  He's not.  He's just another pawn in the Patriots arsenal.

I never predicted him to compete with Leveon Bell, or anything close.  I think that he's performed the same role that he did with the Bengals, only used in more timely manner.  

Obviously, you are more hung up on Burkhead more than I, or most fans for that matter.  The point is, he's a decent player.  He's not a secret weapon, or even a guy that you can rely on for 200 carries.  He is what he is, a role player..

[SunsetBengal]

(12-26-2017, 06:53 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Um has rex burkhead not been a good player in New England? Every time ive watched the pats this year the guy has scored ,but I see you think the best players always play here ,can't ruin that narrative. You're right we have to draft 7 o lineman.

Um, Rex has been a great role player for New England, the same as he was for the Bengals..

where is he now??

There must have been a reason that the Bengals chose to not put him into a first string role.



Anyhow, what about the reserve Guards on parade this week? Why have they been hiding them all year?

[Fan_in_Kettering]

The entire offensive line in Cincinnati is a stinking dumpster fire of toxic crap. Don’t tell me anyone “played well” because they didn’t. One does not assemble the last place offense in the entire league by “playing well” up front. Moving personnel around is the last desperate gasp of an incompetent coaching staff who needs a pink slip about three femtoseconds after the clock hits 00:00 in Baltimore this week.

In the off-season interviews for new coaches, the Front Office better look for candidates who will address the problems in the trenches first.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-27-2017, 12:45 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Lol, you should have done some reading on here, about the time that Burkhead was signed by the Patriots.  Many were predicting that he was going to be a sudden superstar.  He's not.  He's just another pawn in the Patriots arsenal.

I never predicted him to compete with Leveon Bell, or anything close.  I think that he's performed the same role that he did with the Bengals, only used in more timely manner.  

Obviously, you are more hung up on Burkhead more than I, or most fans for that matter.  The point is, he's a decent player.  He's not a secret weapon, or even a guy that you can rely on for 200 carries.  He is what he is, a role player..

Yep, I see Rex as a better version of Brian Leonard.