{The Ultimate ANDY DALTON Mega Thread}

[BengalChris]

(11-24-2017, 10:12 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: +1!  These stats are amazing.  I didn’t realize how close Cam and Andy are.

Cam has a super bowl and several playoff wins. Andy is still searching for any success in the playoffs, and with the way things are going now with the team, he may never see the playoffs again in a Bengals uniform.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-22-2017, 11:25 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Cam has a super bowl and several playoff wins. Andy is still searching for any success in the playoffs, and with the way things are going now with the team, he may never see the playoffs again in a Bengals uniform.

Give Andy Riverboat Ron and Panthers ownership. Give Cam Marvin and Mike Brown. Who do you think has more playoff wins if the situations were reversed?

[*PhilHos*]

(12-22-2017, 05:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Give Andy Riverboat Ron and Panthers ownership. Give Cam Marvin and Mike Brown. Who do you think has more playoff wins if the situations were reversed?

AJ McCarron.

[Rhinocero23]

(11-29-2017, 07:21 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: I don't see many haters in here...driving me nuts. I'm guessing all the logic and sense drove everyone away.

Great posts by everyone. I absolutely love the statistical breakdowns and what we are seeing. I've been saying this, day in and out, that Dalton isn't the problem. He just needs a solid to decent team and a coach WILLING to win behind him.

Lol...statistical breakdown. You mean like all the delusionist who pull out the real stats and use the “but if this occurred this would be the real (not really) stats”. It embarrassing that a fan would feel it necessary or even remotely logical to do that.

Andy is average...average in the NFL = sucks!

[BengalChris]

(12-22-2017, 05:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Give Andy Riverboat Ron and Panthers ownership. Give Cam Marvin and Mike Brown. Who do you think has more playoff wins if the situations were reversed?

Well, you do have a point. Mike Brown is enough to turn anyone into an underachiever.

[*PhilHos*]

(12-22-2017, 07:02 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: Andy is average...average in the NFL = sucks!

I disagree that Andy is average, but I won't argue with you if you believe that.

However, "average in the NFL = sucks"? Really? By definition, average can NOT equal sucks. And while you can argue that it's better to try to find a QB that's better than average, that doesn't make an average QB a sucky QB.

If average = sucks in the NFL, then by that logic there is only a small, handful of players that are good.

[Rhinocero23]

(12-23-2017, 12:07 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I disagree that Andy is average, but I won't argue with you if you believe that.

However, "average in the NFL = sucks"? Really? By definition, average can NOT equal sucks. And while you can argue that it's better to try to find a QB that's better than average, that doesn't make an average QB a sucky QB.

If average = sucks in the NFL, then by that logic there is only a small, handful of players that are good.

Respect your take on this. However I have to disagree. In the real world your definition of average is accurate and it works. In the highly competitive arena of competitive sports it does not.

By nature of competition and this business model, top 25% is the minimal acceptable standard. If you have a key component of your team (QB is a key component) that can not consistently perform at a top 25% level you must either up grade that position or stack all the players around him. The latter rarely works especially if you QB is closeer to top 1/2 than top 1/3.

In professional sports the dial is constantly moving up. A great example of this is when pro Dalton stat providers love to point out Dalton broke Palmer’s single season passing record. In the year Palmer set that record his Performance was in the Top 10% of the league. When Dalton eclipsed his mark, Dalton was out side of the top 25%. The game had changed that quickly. While they both set franchisee record marks one was excellent performance and the other was good.

Average does not get it done in professional sports. That is why each year the roster is upgraded. Average is no bueno. Average sucks in the NFL. Now you have already stated you do not believe Dalton is average so naturally you do not think he sucks. I respect that, I just disagree.

[Brownshoe]

(12-23-2017, 02:39 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: Respect your take on this. However I have to disagree. In the real world your definition of average is accurate and it works. In the highly competitive arena of competitive sports it does not.

By nature of competition and this business model, top 25% is the minimal acceptable standard. If you have a key component of your team (QB is a key component) that can not consistently perform at a top 25% level you must either up grade that position or stack all the players around him. The latter rarely works especially if you QB is closeer to top 1/2 than top 1/3.

In professional sports the dial is constantly moving up. A great example of this is when pro Dalton stat providers love to point out Dalton broke Palmer’s single season passing record. In the year Palmer set that record his Performance was in the Top 10% of the league. When Dalton eclipsed his mark, Dalton was out side of the top 25%. The game had changed that quickly. While they both set franchisee record marks one was excellent performance and the other was good.  

Average does not get it done in professional sports. That is why each year the roster is upgraded. Average is no bueno. Average sucks in the NFL. Now you have already stated you do not believe Dalton is average so naturally you do not think he sucks. I respect that, I just disagree.

Dalton was 3rd in TDs and 7th in yards when he broke Palmers records. Yeah.... I guess you need to redefine your top 25% thing because in those stats he was in the top 10% in TDs and top 25% in yards.

[Rhinocero23]

(12-23-2017, 03:20 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Dalton was 3rd in TDs and 7th in yards when he broke Palmers records. Yeah.... I guess you need to redefine your top 25% thing because in those stats he was in the top 10% in TDs and top 25% in yards.

Why stop there? Where did Andy fall that year in passer rating? He didn’t crack top 10. I am not saying it was not a good season by Andy, it was his best but by the measure of his peers it did not stack up as great.

Just a bit more perspective

2005 Bengals QB league rating - 1st in TD, 4th in yards (300 yards from 1st), 2nd in passer rating (3 pts from 1st)

2013 Bengals QB league rating - 3rd in TD (23 from 1st), 7th in yards (1100 yds from 1st), OUT OF TOP 10 in passer rating.

As you know the 2nd season holds the Bengals season TD and Yards records. However as compared to his peers it was not a great performance in all three major stats. The game was changing and yards and TD’s were easier to come by...Andy benefited from that. In his best season he was only good. That’s the best his skill set has to offer...underwhelming to say the least.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-24-2017, 06:21 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: Why stop there? Where did Andy fall that year in passer rating? He didn’t crack top 10. I am not saying it was not a good season by Andy, it was his best but by the measure of his peers it did not stack up as great.

Just a bit more perspective

2005 Bengals QB league rating - 1st in TD, 4th in yards (300 yards from 1st), 2nd in passer rating (3 pts from 1st)

2013 Bengals QB league rating - 3rd in TD (23 from 1st), 7th in yards (1100 yds from 1st), OUT OF TOP 10 in passer rating.

As you know the 2nd season holds the Bengals season TD and Yards records. However as compared to his peers it was not a great performance in all three major stats. The game was changing and yards and TD’s were easier to come by...Andy benefited from that. In his best season he was only good. That’s the best his skill set has to offer...underwhelming to say the least.

Lol if that's the case, why was he 3rd in TD's and 7th in yards? If Andy is benefiting, then ALL QB's would benefit, right? Yet he was still near the top in both categories.

As for passer rating, many of the guys rated ahead of Dalton did not play close to a full season:

Nick Foles: 2891 yards - 27 TDs - 2 INTs - 119.1 rating - 10 starts
Josh McCown: 1829 yards - 13 TDs - 1 INT - 109.0 rating - 5 starts
Aaron Rodgers: 2536 yards - 17 TDs - 6 INTs - 104.9 rating - 9 starts
Sam Bradford: 1687 yards - 14 TDs - 4 INTs - 90.9 rating - 7 starts
Jay Cutler: 2621 yards - 19 TDs - 12 INTs - 89.2 rating - 11 starts
Andy Dalton: 4293 yards - 33 TDs - 20 INTs - 88.8 rating - 16 starts (for reference)

Lets be honest. How many of these seasons are you taking over Andy's? Maybe Foles. Any others?

What about these complete 16 game seasons?

Colin Kaepernick: 3197 yards - 21 TDs - 8 INTs - 91.6 rating 
Alex Smith: 3313 yards - 23 TDs - 7 INTs - 89.1 rating

All in all, I think Dalton had easily the 8th most impressive season among QB's in 2013. Everything considered.

[Nati#1]

We need to draft Josh Allen from Wyoming in the 2nd.

[McC]

(12-25-2017, 02:00 AM)Nati#1 Wrote: We need to draft Josh Allen from Wyoming in the 2nd.

You won't get him in the second round.  Might not even get him with the second overall pick.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-24-2017, 02:14 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Lol if that's the case, why was he 3rd in TD's and 7th in yards? If Andy is benefiting, then ALL QB's would benefit, right? Yet he was still near the top in both categories.

As for passer rating, many of the guys rated ahead of Dalton did not play close to a full season:

Nick Foles: 2891 yards - 27 TDs - 2 INTs - 119.1 rating - 10 starts
Josh McCown: 1829 yards - 13 TDs - 1 INT - 109.0 rating - 5 starts
Aaron Rodgers: 2536 yards - 17 TDs - 6 INTs - 104.9 rating - 9 starts
Sam Bradford: 1687 yards - 14 TDs - 4 INTs - 90.9 rating - 7 starts
Jay Cutler: 2621 yards - 19 TDs - 12 INTs - 89.2 rating - 11 starts
Andy Dalton: 4293 yards - 33 TDs - 20 INTs - 88.8 rating - 16 starts (for reference)

Lets be honest. How many of these seasons are you taking over Andy's? Maybe Foles. Any others?

What about these complete 16 game seasons?

Colin Kaepernick: 3197 yards - 21 TDs - 8 INTs - 91.6 rating 
Alex Smith: 3313 yards - 23 TDs - 7 INTs - 89.1 rating

All in all, I think Dalton had easily the 8th most impressive season among QB's in 2013. Everything considered.

Oh no!  Surely not the COMPLETE picture......

(12-25-2017, 02:00 AM)Nati#1 Wrote: We need to draft Josh Allen from Wyoming in the 2nd.

Would in a heartbeat.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(12-26-2017, 10:16 AM)Wyche Wrote: Oh no!  Surely not the COMPLETE picture......


Would in a heartbeat.

Yeah we are gonna disagree hard about Allen lol

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-27-2017, 04:53 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Yeah we are gonna disagree hard about Allen lol

To each his own, but I would like him on the bench, with room to grow.  Provided we get a good coaching staff, that is.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(12-27-2017, 05:10 PM)Wyche Wrote: To each his own, but I would like him on the bench, with room to grow.  Provided we get a good coaching staff, that is.

He reminds me of a more athletic Ryan Mallett 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-27-2017, 06:16 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He reminds me of a more athletic Ryan Mallett 

If his work ethic is better, he may be able to take to coaching and develop into something better....never know.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(12-27-2017, 07:22 PM)Wyche Wrote: If his work ethic is better, he may be able to take to coaching and develop into something better....never know.

And if WRs become 8ft tall and 5ft wide but sure...
And you do never know, which is why I wouldn't take him before the 5th. 
He's a mid-late round flier type. 
I've learned my lesson on QBs. 

Until then, I'll stick with Baker Mayfield who was one of the most efficient QBs in the last decade while still having his WRs drop 8% of passes.
Shows the competitive nature of Brees and Brady. 
Is incredibly accurate downfield...oh hi AJ Green and John Ross....

I think he's somewhere around Russell Wilson and Drew Brees. 
He's not quite as effective as Russ on the ground and he isn't Drew Brees godlike accurate. 

Either way, I'm bored and this is fun. 

[Shake n Blake]

Doesn't Josh Allen have absolutely hideous numbers? Yeah I get it, he looks the part. Big with big arm. No touch though. Project. Is this a Brock Osweiler or Paxton Lynch type of guy? Seems like a Broncos type of QB. I've talked myself into being "okay" with Baker Mayfield, should we take a QB. Gotta get this line fixed though.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-27-2017, 08:43 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: And if WRs become 8ft tall and 5ft wide but sure...
And you do never know, which is why I wouldn't take him before the 5th. 
He's a mid-late round flier type. 
I've learned my lesson on QBs. 

Until then, I'll stick with Baker Mayfield who was one of the most efficient QBs in the last decade while still having his WRs drop 8% of passes.
Shows the competitive nature of Brees and Brady. 
Is incredibly accurate downfield...oh hi AJ Green and John Ross....

I think he's somewhere around Russell Wilson and Drew Brees. 
He's not quite as effective as Russ on the ground and he isn't Drew Brees godlike accurate. 

Either way, I'm bored and this is fun. 

Late 2nd, early 3rd for me.  He had a good season last year.  

Pass on Manziel 2.0.

The raw talent is there with Allen, but who knows how good of coaching he's getting at Wyoming.  Besides, weren't the Cowboys 4-8, 2-10 the years before he became the starter?