Big Line vs Athletic Line

[GreenCornBengal]

(12-28-2017, 11:02 AM)Yojim bo Wrote: Yeah, what kind of paint you into a corner question is this? There are plenty of o-linemen that are big and athletic. We just need a better coach and better investment in lineman and stop treating them like they're the least important part of the team.

Haha, wasn't intending to paint anyone into any corners.

Obviously there is a spectrum of Big/Athletic and all Lineman are both to some degree.

I guess a better question would be, if you were running the Bengals, and on draft day there are 2 1st round quality lineman on the board, which do you take? One is bigger but a little less athletic, the other is smaller but has shown better movement.... which do you prefer?

I think BECAUSE our coaching is crummy, I would go with big... at least they are harder to push back into the QB...

Which do you like more? Ogb (Athletic) or Andre Smith (Big)... Clearly both 'Big' and 'Athletic' can be bad at their jobs lol

[PV Bengal]

(12-28-2017, 11:13 AM)Interceptor Wrote: Maybe sumo wrestlers?

Like in the movie "The Replacements"?

[grampahol]

The word athletic is intentionally entirely too vague. Let's define athletic for a moment..
Definition of athletic for English Language Learners

• : of or relating to athletes
• : of or relating to sports, games, or exercises
• : used by athletes : used during or for sports, games, or exercises
  

Well! That's a big help. This pretty much describes everyone who ever even so much as played backyard kick ball..or just stood around watching other people play. It really doesn't help in defining a good, solid NFL offensive lineman though now does it? 

[GreenCornBengal]

(12-28-2017, 01:59 PM)grampahol Wrote: The word athletic is intentionally entirely too vague. Let's define athletic for a moment..
Definition of athletic for English Language Learners

• : of or relating to athletes
• : of or relating to sports, games, or exercises
• : used by athletes : used during or for sports, games, or exercises
  

Well! That's a big help. This pretty much describes everyone who ever even so much as played backyard kick ball..or just stood around watching other people play. It really doesn't help in defining a good, solid NFL offensive lineman though now does it? 

Definition of Big:

• Of considerable size, extent or intensity
• Of considerable importance, or seriousness
  

I guess we better go with Big

[sandwedge]

(12-28-2017, 10:28 AM)Wyche Wrote: You want Nasty Nate Livings?  Is that you Piano Man?

Seriously though, if I was building a line, I would want big with an attitude of a grizzly bear if I'm stocking an oline.  You do need some athleticism to be able to handle the speed edge rushers in today's game, but give me a Butterbean with the footwork of Sugar Ray Leonard at OT....and a buncha bar room brawlers in the middle.

I think we have those guys already on the team. Redmond and Westerman. I have an idea brewing in my head right at the moment, permantly moving Boling to LT and Redmond or Westerman to LG ... I think with an offseason of Boling working at LT he could be pretty good.  Pretty much the only thing bad I could I say about last week, was he gave up to much ground on the sack he allowed. He back peddled almost into Andy

[grampahol]

(12-28-2017, 02:01 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Definition of Big:

• Of considerable size, extent or intensity
• Of considerable importance, or seriousness
  

I guess we better go with Big

Big is a much better starting point here..Mean would also help. A little girls gymnastics team is sufficiently athletic..

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-28-2017, 10:57 AM)Bengalsrob Wrote: Yeh, Incognito...when the Bills acquired him, I wanted him badly, but one certain guy who used to be here and knew everything said we absolutely didn't want him, all because he sent some 300 pound wuss of a team mate to the showers by bullying him?? Now, the other guy is long out of the league, and Incognito is all-pro. Meanwhile, back to the question, I think you can have both, big AND athletic. Bengals have an amazing ability to find some of the biggest non-athletes I've ever seen, not the least of the big loser who was "coached up " by us and signed a big contract with the Cowboys and hasn't been heard from again. The first thing we need is a real line coach who can get the best out of what we have already who can spot talent and add it via the draft to build for the future. An example of big and athletic besides Incognito would be that Moses kid on the Redskins who can scare defenders by just standing in front of them, but can also pull. I really think we can have both.

Had to quote this from the front page. Spot on Rob.

We can have both, just need to get a new OLC first.

To be fair to the OP i will vote for the big meanies over the athletic types like Og and Fisher as the results speak for
themselves as of late. Nice seeing a big guy like Redmond out there on our O-line playing well, the passive approach
most of this year really made it impossible for any of these O-lineman to really gain any confidence.

And whether we got more aggressive or not as the season went on PA still waited too damn long, once again.

We all saw it the first half of the season, pathetic.

The thing is we have 2 very versatile O-lineman on the team that CAN play Center and we didn't use them. Both
Westerman and Boling CAN play Center and really either could of this year and i guarantee we wouldn't be as bad
in the middle of the O-line.

The FO could of made the right decision in the last Offseason and the O-line could of looked like this...

Whitworth - Boling - Westerman - Redmond - Andre Smith

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-28-2017, 01:47 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Haha, wasn't intending to paint anyone into any corners.

Obviously there is a spectrum of Big/Athletic and all Lineman are both to some degree.

I guess a better question would be, if you were running the Bengals, and on draft day there are 2 1st round quality lineman on the board, which do you take? One is bigger but a little less athletic, the other is smaller but has shown better movement.... which do you prefer?

I think BECAUSE our coaching is crummy, I would go with big... at least they are harder to push back into the QB...

Which do you like more? Ogb (Athletic) or Andre Smith (Big)... Clearly both 'Big' and 'Athletic' can be bad at their jobs lol

I like either Conner Williams OT Texas or Quentin Nelson OG Notre Dame with our first pick, Billy Price OC OSU next...

As Hammerstripes mentioned on the first page. Also like McGlinchey if we are going OT.

Nice seeing Boling do okay at LT his first time playing there but i don't know if he is the answer.

[*Synric*]

(12-28-2017, 02:56 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I like either Conner Williams OT Texas or Quentin Nelson OG Notre Dame with our first pick, Billy Price OC OSU next...

As Hammerstripes mentioned on the first page. Also like McGlinchey if we are going OT.

Nice seeing Boling do okay at LT his first time playing there but i don't know if he is the answer.

I'm leaning more toward Frank Ragnow Center Arkansas.

 https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/college-football-2016-pff-college-award-winners

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/2017-pff-all-american-team

Couple good reads. 

[Interceptor]

(12-28-2017, 01:48 PM)PV Bengal Wrote: Like in the movie "The Replacements"?

Yes! But did you ever see the hand technique and footwork in sumo wrestling?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-28-2017, 03:44 PM)Interceptor Wrote: Yes! But did you ever see the hand technique and footwork in sumo wrestling?

Dilly! Dilly!

[Interceptor]

(12-28-2017, 03:53 PM)Wyche Wrote: Dilly! Dilly!

They won't grab, but they'll still take you down! DILLY DILLY!!!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-28-2017, 03:16 PM)Synric Wrote: I'm leaning more toward Frank Ragnow Center Arkansas.

 https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/college-football-2016-pff-college-award-winners

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/2017-pff-all-american-team

Couple good reads. 

Very good, been watching Ragnow for years as well. Just want one of these guys so our interior isn't a seive anymore.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-28-2017, 02:12 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I think we have those guys already on the team. Redmond and Westerman. I have an idea brewing in my head right at the moment, permantly moving Boling to LT and Redmond or Westerman to LG ... I think with an offseason of Boling working at LT he could be pretty good.  Pretty much the only thing bad I could I say about last week, was he gave up to much ground on the sack he allowed. He back peddled almost into Andy

You may be right......I didn't get to see the game because the Lexington affiliates said "eff the Bengals" , so I can't really comment on their play.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-28-2017, 02:12 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I think we have those guys already on the team. Redmond and Westerman. I have an idea brewing in my head right at the moment, permantly moving Boling to LT and Redmond or Westerman to LG ... I think with an offseason of Boling working at LT he could be pretty good.  Pretty much the only thing bad I could I say about last week, was he gave up to much ground on the sack he allowed. He back peddled almost into Andy

...by design. Paul Alexander’s scheme makes for a too-small rapidly collapsing pocket.

[bonesaw]

I think Westerman played a lot of center in college. Still wondering why we've never seen him practice there

[RoyleRedlegs]

(12-28-2017, 09:30 PM)bonesaw Wrote: I think Westerman played a lot of center in college.  Still wondering why we've never seen him practice there

He started 25 games at ASU.
All at LG. 

I think people are too caught up in big vs athletic. 

Big doesn't mean not athletic and athletic doesn't mean small. 

Big guys who aren't athletes will likely struggle. 
Athletic guys who don't play big will likely struggle. 

It's about finding the balance. 
It's too early to tell right now because we are likely to see a new coach and a new system. 
That will dictate much of what we do. Personally, I'd like to get some guys who can move and get the second level blocks in so we can run more gun and maximize Gio and Mixon 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-28-2017, 09:39 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He started 25 games at ASU.
All at LG. 

I think people are too caught up in big vs athletic. 

Big doesn't mean not athletic and athletic doesn't mean small. 

Big guys who aren't athletes will likely struggle. 
Athletic guys who don't play big will likely struggle. 

It's about finding the balance. 
It's too early to tell right now because we are likely to see a new coach and a new system. 
That will dictate much of what we do. Personally, I'd like to get some guys who can move and get the second level blocks in so we can run more gun and maximize Gio and Mixon 

What are some Lineman in the draft that fit this scheme RRL?

I know Connor Williams and Orlando Brown are pretty heavy footed as far as OT's go. McGlinchey seems to have lighter feet.

Saw Billy Price make some hell of good blocks down the field this year in the run game but i also really like Ragnow at Center.

Isaiah Wynn the Guard out of Georgia sure fits the bill you are speaking of from the little i know so far.

[*Go Cards*]

The trick is to find big and athletic guys.

But if having to vote, going with big.

Agree with Sunset though that attitude is a big part of it.

[*Go Cards*]

(12-28-2017, 09:30 PM)bonesaw Wrote: I think Westerman played a lot of center in college.  Still wondering why we've never seen him practice there

Paul Alexander is why