Options at 12?

[Jpoore]

(01-06-2018, 02:30 PM)Okeana Wrote: So I reviewed a lot of tape on Offensive lineman last night and clearly the top guy in this class is Nelson and its not really close.  What i love best about him is that even when he loses the position battle he almost always salvages the play and very rarely loses.  He is also a stud when it comes to pulling and he is so functionally strong that he almost always gets penetration on run blocks.  Westerman is always a viable option on either side at guard or could even be tested at center which may be a fit for him as well.  I think price will land in the 20+ range and the Bengals could trade up if that's their guy for center.  The tackles in this class are just average at best and I wouldn't invest any high picks in guys.  This could change after testing, but very unlikely

Agree with the tackle part, but will not agree with the Nelson part. Hernandez is better simply put. But not gonna change the op. I agree that tackle is not good this year, though there are some guys that I'm targeting for 3rd round comp that could become top 5-7 tackles in the nfl. Jamarco Jones osu, a amazing talent that has a couple more technique issues to fix. Fixed about half over off season, and has only 2 more issues to fix. Fix those completely top 5 tackle upside. And second is oneiil. lt out of Pitt. Project tackle but with great upside.

(01-06-2018, 02:49 PM)Okeana Wrote: What do you guys think about Joshua Jackson the CB out of Iowa.  With injury concerns and pacman basically gone at this point would Jackson be a viable option at 12.  Lets not pretend like this isn't an area of need even if Offensive line is obviously the most needed area of improvement.

Definitely. Would also give us 2 ball Hawking cbs. Not to mention the fact that he's just learning the position as he was a wr first 2 years. He's gonna be a top 10 CB by end of year 2.

[Hammerstripes]

I have a hard time thinking that CB is an area of need.

Jackson
Dre
Dennard
Shaw
Russell

I can't see them going corner in this draft at #12.

[pulses]

(01-08-2018, 02:32 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I have a hard time thinking that CB is an area of need.

Jackson
Dre
Dennard
Shaw
Russell

I can't see them going corner in this draft at #12.

Russell can't even get on the field......Dennard may get more money elswhere......DreK is way overrated and Shaw is inconsistent....i wouldnt take jackson at 12 but if he were there in 2 I would grab him.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-06-2018, 10:45 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: While you can never have "too many pass rushers", I think that it's also worth noting that the Bengals had big trouble stopping the run this season.  

Ya gotta put 'em in passing stiuations, in order for pass rushers to be a factor..

I get that, but three things in response:
1) Andrew Billings was drafted specifically to handle NT duties and he essentially was just a rookie last year and coming off a season-ending injury from the year prior. Not to mention he was only 20 when he entered the league two years ago so he's still rather young.
2) A ton of people (on this board especially) thought Billings would be a dominant NT for the Bengals and was worth their first round pick. When he fell to the fourth, everyone thought it was a steal. If you believed Billings was worth a first rounder because you thought he'd be dominant, why give up on that notion and look for a replacement after just one season? And if a player like Billings disappoints, who is to say Vea or Payne wouldn't do the same?
3) It's easier and cheaper to find a good run-stuffing NT in FA compared to a really good interior pass rusher.

With all that said, I think it makes sense to stick with Billings and bring in a cheaper FA to compete with him if you don't believe in him taking the next step in Year 3.
Draft the interior pass rusher because pass rushers are more expensive and this draft has a nice handful of those to pick from, plus Atkins could leave after 2018.
Getting an interior pass rusher now would not only line up a potential replacement for Atkins while giving that draft pick a year to develop, but it would also give the Bengals a good option to put next to him on passing downs in 2018.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-08-2018, 10:10 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I get that, but three things in response:
1) Andrew Billings was drafted specifically to handle NT duties and he essentially was just a rookie last year and coming off a season-ending injury from the year prior. Not to mention he was only 20 when he entered the league two years ago so he's still rather young.
2) A ton of people (on this board especially) thought Billings would be a dominant NT for the Bengals and was worth their first round pick. When he fell to the fourth, everyone thought it was a steal. If you believed Billings was worth a first rounder because you thought he'd be dominant, why give up on that notion and look for a replacement after just one season? And if a player like Billings disappoints, who is to say Vea or Payne wouldn't do the same?
3) It's easier and cheaper to find a good run-stuffing NT in FA compared to a really good interior pass rusher.

With all that said, I think it makes sense to stick with Billings and bring in a cheaper FA to compete with him if you don't believe in him taking the next step in Year 3.
Draft the interior pass rusher because pass rushers are more expensive and this draft has a nice handful of those to pick from, plus Atkins could leave after 2018.
Getting an interior pass rusher now would not only line up a potential replacement for Atkins while giving that draft pick a year to develop, but it would also give the Bengals a good option to put next to him on passing downs in 2018.

Well, billings is heading into the 3rd of a 4yr deal.  If he suddenly emerges as a force, won't that make him a high cost contract to retain?  From what I've seen of his play on the field, Vita Vea looks pretty complete.  Big and stout enough to absorb two blockers versus the run, and athletic enough to get after the passer.

Now, this is all supposition, mind you.  But, if Vea were taken in the 1st, he would be on a 5 year deal.  Meaning that;  A.  Billings would have serious competition to beat out.  B.  Would make one hell of a rotation, while both were on the team.  C.  They have a stud to take over, should Billings become unaffordable to sign to a second contract.  D.  If all played out well, it would make a potential starter like Glassgow expendable as a potential trade piece.

Not to mention, Vea is a STs ace, and i would rather see him as a Bengal, than be faced with him terrorizing the Bengals twice each season.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-08-2018, 10:21 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, billings is heading into the 3rd of a 4yr deal.  If he suddenly emerges as a force, won't that make him a high cost contract to retain?  From what I've seen of his play on the field, Vita Vea looks pretty complete.  Big and stout enough to absorb two blockers versus the run, and athletic enough to get after the passer.

Now, this is all supposition, mind you.  But, if Vea were taken in the 1st, he would be on a 5 year deal.  Meaning that;  A.  Billings would have serious competition to beat out.  B.  Would make one hell of a rotation, while both were on the team.  C.  They have a stud to take over, should Billings become unaffordable to sign to a second contract.  D.  If all played out well, it would make a potential starter like Glassgow expendable as a potential trade piece.

Didn't practically everyone think the same for Billings? I know I did.
Plus I always liked what Tupou brought to the table when I did some research on him for both the 2016 and 2017 draft. I think he could potentially be a quality rotation player with Billings.
I just think that people are being a little too reactionary after just one season (or less) of play from these guys and they deserve one more year to prove themselves and investing in a first-round NT.
But if I were to look to the draft for another NT, I'd probably look somewhere in Rounds 3-5. Derrick Nnadi, Harrison Phillips, BJ Hill, or maybe Lowell Lotulelei. Out of that group, I think Nnadi offers the most as a pass rush threat to go along with run stuffing.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-08-2018, 03:50 AM)pulses Wrote: Russell can't even get on the field......Dennard may get more money elswhere......DreK is way overrated and Shaw is inconsistent....i wouldnt take jackson at 12 but if he were there in 2 I would grab him.

True, but this isn't Madden.

Dre has a big contract, anyone drafted is going to sit behind him, Jones, Dennard and Shaw.

Russell is a nice 5th CB.

[pulses]

(01-08-2018, 03:46 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: True, but this isn't Madden.

Dre has a big contract, anyone drafted is going to sit behind him, Jones, Dennard and Shaw.

Russell is a nice 5th CB.

LOL This has nothing to do with Madden. And Jackson being there in the early 2nd is not out of the question....so I have no idea where your sarcasm comes from.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-08-2018, 04:19 PM)pulses Wrote: LOL This has nothing to do with Madden. And Jackson being there in the early 2nd is not out of the question....so I have no idea where your sarcasm comes from.

It's not sarcasm at all.  I apologize if you took it that way.

My point is this:

Dre has a big contract, he's not going anywhere.  He will be starting across from Jackson.  If Dennard is back, they will start him at nickel.  They like Shaw enough to play him at dime.  

We may see the need at CB, but I don't think the team does at all.

[pulses]

(01-08-2018, 05:45 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: It's not sarcasm at all.  I apologize if you took it that way.

My point is this:

Dre has a big contract, he's not going anywhere.  He will be starting across from Jackson.  If Dennard is back, they will start him at nickel.  They like Shaw enough to play him at dime.  

We may see the need at CB, but I don't think the team does at all.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/dre-kirkpatrick-9827/



They structured DreK's contract so they can out of it early if need be.....and the way he played this year I can see that as a real possibility going forward.