'It’s time for the Bengals to alter their offseason mindset.'

[*ochocincos*]

(01-16-2018, 05:14 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Speaking of cap space, it looks like the Bengals will have around 38-39m. 

Correct and can get to 50+ mill by cutting a select few vets on the last year of their contracts with little-to-no dead cap.

[fredtoast]

(01-16-2018, 04:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Another addition - Mike Brown and the coaches need to quit overvaluing their own drafted players. They seem to value guys like Bodine, Maualuga, Kirkpatrick, etc. MUCH higher than the fans and even other teams value them.

Bodine was never given an extension and Kirkpatrick would have gotten just as much money from another team if he had left in free agency.  NFL teams do no depend on PFF rankings to evaluate players.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-16-2018, 05:14 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Speaking of cap space, it looks like the Bengals will have around 38-39m, and could free up about 10m more by cutting Jones and LaFell.

That's also not counting the $11.2m in cap space they are currently sitting on from 2017 that they could roll over.

So roll over, plus Jones and LaFell puts them north of $60m, but they'll find a way to say they only have $15m to spend (which will be spent on Bodine and the worst/slowest possible mid-30s LB they can find). Gotta save that $25m for extensions for Will Jack and John Ross, plus another $20m for rookies and injury pool.  

[*ochocincos*]

(01-16-2018, 05:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bodine was never given an extension and Kirkpatrick would have gotten just as much money from another team if he had left in free agency.  NFL teams do no depend on PFF rankings to evaluate players.

I know Bodine has not been given an extension, but the team refused to upgrade C the past couple years while he continued to play poorly overall. They consider(ed) him better than most outside of the franchise view him (at least the fans).

[Bengalholic]

(01-16-2018, 05:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I can get on board, to an extent.  Along with spending on upper tier FAs, a stronger line has to be drawn when it comes to re-signing/extending "less than upper tier" FAs currently on the team.  Best recent example that I can think of is the Dre K deal.  A very "average" CB, getting extended on a nice deal.  What they could have done is A. gave him a one year "prove it" deal, or B. Allowed him to walk, cut Adam Jones as well, went on to sign an upper tier CB, and drafted for another.

I completely get what you're saying.  However, I see it as unlikely that any huge moves happen this year.  Why?  Because that would involve something that Mike Brown is fundamentally against, cutting some players that are currently under contract in order to free up some money.  

Yeah, I don't think they will change their approach after all these years. I just wish they would.

[WeezyBengal]

(01-16-2018, 05:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I honestly don't see any big name free agents signing on the cheap with winning teams.

It is all about the money.  Even the good teams have to pay a lot for top free agents.

Thats my point. If NE and Cincinnati are trying to court a REALLY good FA and are offering him similar money, chances are that player is going to choose NE for a multitude of different reasons. 

[SunsetBengal]

(01-16-2018, 05:23 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah, I don't think they will change their approach after all these years. I just wish they would.

Yep, it was all part of my pipe dream;  The one where Mike Brown retired, and Katie went on to hire an actual GM and turn over football operations to him. 

[Bengalholic]

(01-16-2018, 05:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's also not counting the $11.2m in cap space they are currently sitting on from 2017 that they could roll over.

So roll over, plus Jones and LaFell puts them north of $60m, but they'll find a way to say they only have $15m to spend (which will be spent on Bodine and the worst/slowest possible mid-30s LB they can find). Gotta save that $25m for extensions for Will Jack and John Ross, plus another $20m for rookies and injury pool.  

It looks like the rollover has already been included.?


CINCINNATI BENGALS CAP TOTALS

• Adjusted Salary Cap$189,191,675

• Active Contracts:$154,570,053

• Dead Cap:$630,2132017 

• Rollover:$11,191,675

• Total (All):$155,200,266

• Total (Top 51):$150,175,266Est. 

• Cap Space (All):$33,991,409Est. 

• Cap Space (Top 51):$39,016,409

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-16-2018, 05:34 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: It looks like the rollover has already been included?


CINCINNATI BENGALS CAP TOTALS

• Adjusted Salary Cap$189,191,675

• Active Contracts:$154,570,053

• Dead Cap:$630,2132017 

• Rollover:$11,191,675

• Total (All):$155,200,266

• Total (Top 51):$150,175,266Est. 

• Cap Space (All):$33,991,409Est. 

• Cap Space (Top 51):$39,016,409

Well shit, consider me corrected. I didn't think they already included those in there, since you're not required to roll over. My bad.

Also.... wow there's some depressing misuse of money when you look at the 2018 cap hits.

[Bengalholic]

(01-16-2018, 05:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yep, it was all part of my pipe dream;  The one where Mike Brown retired, and Katie went on to hire an actual GM and turn over football operations to him. 

I think we all share that dream!  :andy:

[Bengalholic]

(01-16-2018, 05:41 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Well shit, consider me corrected. I didn't think they already included those in there, since you're not required to roll over. My bad.

Also.... wow there's some depressing misuse of money when you look at the 2018 cap hits.

I wasn't sure either. Had to go back and double check. I was hoping it hadn't been included yet.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-16-2018, 05:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:
That's also not counting the $11.2m in cap space they are currently sitting on from 2017 that they could roll over.

So roll over, plus Jones and LaFell puts them north of $60m, but they'll find a way to say they only have $15m to spend (which will be spent on Bodine and the worst/slowest possible mid-30s LB they can find). Gotta save that $25m for extensions for Will Jack and John Ross, plus another $20m for rookies and injury pool.  

Actually it is.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/

[bengals67]

keep Malaluga several years after he was exposed by Texans in two playoff games.

Keep Dre, A jones and Bodine last year and let Z and Whit go without franchising either.

Mike takes the path of least resistance, won't cut guys who are clearly under performing if they have a contract, and wont pay out for a prime free agent who is not already a Bengal - and then he will let even those quality  guys walk if they are a guard ( drafted in first round - but "we don't pay guards") or Whit because of the Og fantasy.

Our Bengals suck in personnel decisions. The Steelers are way  better in drafting and making free agent calls on players they have developed.  How can anyone dispute this.

If you are going to "build through the draft" then why don't you have a top tier scouting department with full time scouts.  Hiring 3 full time scouts would be way cheaper than signing even a mid level free agent.  For God's sake give it a try for a few years and see if it is any different than the cheap system we have had for 25 years with not a single playoff win.

Something is bad wrong in Bengal land but nothing ever changes.

In any competitive business you always need to change. Bengals never change.

Cheap or no vision or dumb or all three.

[J24]

(01-16-2018, 05:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bodine was never given an extension and Kirkpatrick would have gotten just as much money from another team if he had left in free agency.  NFL teams do no depend on PFF rankings to evaluate players.

You might be right about Kirkpatrick but there was no need for the Bengals to sign him with Jackson and Dennard on the roster.

[t3r3e3]

(01-16-2018, 05:54 PM)bengals67 Wrote: keep Malaluga several years after he was exposed by Texans in two playoff games.

Keep Dre, A jones and Bodine last year and let Z and Whit go without franchising either.

Mike takes the path of least resistance, won't cut guys who are clearly under performing if they have a contract, and wont pay out for a prime free agent who is not already a Bengal - and then he will let even those quality  guys walk if they are a guard ( drafted in first round - but "we don't pay guards") or Whit because of the Og fantasy.

Our Bengals suck in personnel decisions. The Steelers are way  better in drafting and making free agent calls on players they have developed.  How can anyone dispute this.

If you are going to "build through the draft" then why don't you have a top tier scouting department with full time scouts.  Hiring 3 full time scouts would be way cheaper than signing even a mid level free agent.  For God's sake give it a try for a few years and see if it is any different than the cheap system we have had for 25 years with not a single playoff win.

Something is bad wrong in Bengal land but nothing ever changes.

In any competitive business you always need to change. Bengals never change.

Cheap or no vision or dumb or all three.

Why the team won’t devote more to the scouting department is absolutely baffling. Especially given the absolute reliance on the draft to build the team. Scouts are cheap. They could hire 8-10 of them for 1 million or so/ year. Hiring scouts would allow the team to gather more intel on players within leagues they already scout, and gather intel in smaller conferences they can’t cover well. Knowledge is power. Being well informed leads to better choices, especially in the mid-late rounds where drafts are won and lost. And then there’s the benefit of allowing the coaches to coach and not play scout during the season...

[Luvnit2]

(01-16-2018, 03:08 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I think James Rapien makes some great points his latest article. Here are some portions:


We all have ideas to make the Bengals better this offseason. Those include upgrading the offensive line, drafting a potential franchise quarterback and adding speed at linebacker.

I’m on board with all of those ideas. In fact, I want the Bengals to do something much simpler than that. I want them to have an open mind this offseason.

Failures in the draft have also contributed to their decline over the past two seasons. The Bengals prepared for Whitworth and Smith’s departure when they drafted Cedric Ogbuehi and Jake Fisher in the first two rounds of the 2015 NFL Draft. Neither player has worked out.

The Bengals still haven’t found a replacement for Jones either. They’ve drafted four wide receivers, including John Ross and Tyler Boyd since Jones signed with Detroit. Both have dealt with injuries in three combined seasons.

It’s time for the Bengals to alter their offseason mindset. Instead of focusing solely on the draft, they need to emulate strategies from the teams that have had success this season.

Philadelphia didn’t shy away from free agency last offseason. They signed Torrey Smith and Alshon Jeffery. The Eagles also traded up in the draft to select quarterback Carson Wentz. They had a quarterback similar to Dalton (Sam Bradford) when they did so. Jacksonville added multiple free agents over the past few years including A.J. Bouye, Malik Jackson, Barry Church and Calais Campbell. The Vikings signed Riley Reiff, Mike Remmers, Datone Jones, Case Keenum and Latavius Murray last offseason.

Free agency isn’t this big, scary thing that only bad organizations use to make a splash. The great organizations use it as a tool to improve their team. Imagine if the Bengals address their offensive line in the draft, but also signed one or two proven linemen. The Vikings did that last offseason and their one win away from the Super Bowl.

If the Bengals find a quarterback that has more potential than Dalton, then they need to draft him. They haven’t seriously considered drafting a quarterback early at any point during the Dalton era. I’m not saying they have to draft one, but they need to remain open to the idea during the evaluation process.

The Bengals need to be un-Bengal-like this offseason. Instead of being stubborn, they need to turn over every rock, look in every direction and do everything they can to improve the roster.

Ignoring free agency, not looking at quarterback prospects and relying on the draft to improve the roster is the wrong approach. Fans can only hope that Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis realize changes have to be made.

Read the full article https://www.lockedonbengals.com/one-thing-i-want-the-bengals-to-have/.

I have said MB is a loyalist to a fault. He is one of the best at 2nd and 3rd contracts. Yes, I know we lose players too, but based on the facts, MB signs players to another contract (keeping his own) at a top 5 in the league clip. His loyalty also hurts him as I can't recall him cutting or making players renegotiate who under perform their contract.

I do hope we look at every position including QB when we analyze the draft. The next Tom Brady maybe there at pick #12 and if he is, we need to grab him. I also hope free agency is considered, a  guy like Campbell would have made our DL and defense better instead of a guy like Sims. But I do get FA can be a crap shoot paying on the high end and many times does not work out.

Many hate ML and I understand. But, how good with this team be if they gave him Belichick type control of the team?

We can all dream, but sadly I will only believe major change after I see major change happen.

[Luvnit2]

(01-16-2018, 05:34 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: It looks like the rollover has already been included.?


CINCINNATI BENGALS CAP TOTALS

• Adjusted Salary Cap$189,191,675

• Active Contracts:$154,570,053

• Dead Cap:$630,2132017 

• Rollover:$11,191,675

• Total (All):$155,200,266

• Total (Top 51):$150,175,266Est. 

• Cap Space (All):$33,991,409Est. 

• Cap Space (Top 51):$39,016,409

TY, I love the facts. So they are looking at 40 million and could create more if they cut a couple of guys. What if the Bengals traded AD and made AJ the started in 2018? Andy's cap hit has to be over 15 million. Then draft the best QB available with pick #1 and use AJ as a 1 year stop gap unless he shows he is next great QB.

I like AD and respect him, but if we could get rid of a huge salary and get a 1st and 3rd round pick also, I would listen if MB, Katie, Tobin and ML.

[*Synric*]

(01-16-2018, 04:53 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You guys are all missing one important aspect of free agency...the decision between organization and free agent has to be mutual. What makes you think a big name free agent is going to want to come play for the Bengals if hes getting courted by another organization offering him similar compensation?

A huge reason FAs sign is the fan base. Are they going to be able to sell jerseys or other various products? Are they going to get many if any at all endorsement deals....and if they retire with the team they sign are they going to able to continue to make money with their name from the fan base.

The Bengals fan base is small makes getting Free Agents just that much more difficult

[fredtoast]

(01-16-2018, 05:55 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: You might be right about Kirkpatrick but there was no need for the Bengals to sign him with Jackson and Dennard on the roster.

Jackson had not played when Dre was a free agent.

That is the same as saying there was no reason to re-sign Whitworth because Ogbuehi was on the roster.

[fredtoast]

(01-16-2018, 06:53 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: TY, I love the facts. So they are looking at 40 million and could create more if they cut a couple of guys. What if the Bengals traded AD and made AJ the started in 2018? Andy's cap hit has to be over 15 million. Then draft the best QB available with pick #1 and use AJ as a 1 year stop gap unless he shows he is next great QB.

What if we trade Andy and there is no decent QB available with our first pick?