Possibility of trading down in the draft

[Shepdawg]

Assuming there are 4, perhaps 5 QB's in this years draft that are supposedly franchise QB type of players, is trading back a real possibility? The Bengals draft 12th currently. We would have to assume Cleveland takes a QB, as well as the Giants with the 2nd pick. Denver picks 5th, and you have to think they'll also be in the QB market unless they get one in FA. The Jets at 6 gotta be looking QB as well. Washington picks 13th, and MAY be in the market for a QB depending on what happens with Cousins. Would another team be willing to jump up ahead of Washington and grab the last "Franchise" QB? Or if their guy falls in the draft, would they be willing to jump up? Say Arizona for example, they pick 15th. Palmer is gone and they'll have a new coach. What would that pick be worth to drop down say 3-7 slots?

[fredtoast]

I don't see that many QBs rated that high, but teams move up in the draft all the time to take players other than QB.  However these trades are hard to even speculate about because no moves will be made until the first 11 guys are off the board.

I think it is more likely that we end up trading McCarron to the Browns for their second round pick.

[Goalpost]

Considering they were willing to deal McCarron, I think it is still a possibility that they want more picks.

[Shepdawg]

(01-17-2018, 08:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't see that many QBs rated that high, but teams move up in the draft all the time to take players other than QB.  However these trades are hard to even speculate about because no moves will be made until the first 11 guys are off the board.

I think it is more likely that we end up trading McCarron to the Browns for their second round pick.

I'm not asking whether you personally see that many franchise QB's in this years draft.  Every year there are QB's that go high in the draft that are total busts.  Most of the "experts" have Darold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield and possibly Jackson going in the top half of the first round.  Again in a hypothetical scenario lets say Darnold and Rosen go 1-2.  Lets say Denver gets a FA QB (possibly Cousins), and the Jets pick Mayfield.  Would Arizona  want to jump ahead of Washington to get Allen?  What would they be willing to give up to move ahead of Washington?

[fredtoast]

(01-17-2018, 09:23 PM)Shepdawg Wrote: I'm not asking whether you personally see that many franchise QB's in this years draft.

I'm sorry.  I thought you were asking if there would be enough QBs rated high enough for a team to want to jump in front of Washington.  Or if the QB left at #12 would be worth trading up to get.

Either way the answer is the same.  I don't see a team wanting to trade up with us in order to get ahead of Washington to take a QB at 12.

[SunsetBengal]

I don't know the exact value, and no one can know but the people that make that deal at that moment. However, if I were guessing, I'd say to drop 3-5 spots, that should be worth at least their current 1st and 3rd round pick.

There is such a thing as the draft pick value calculator. I've seen folks post it on the boards before.

[*bfine32*]

(01-17-2018, 08:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't see that many QBs rated that high, but teams move up in the draft all the time to take players other than QB.  However these trades are hard to even speculate about because no moves will be made until the first 11 guys are off the board.

I think it is more likely that we end up trading McCarron to the Browns for their second round pick.

Wouldn't we have to re-sign AJM before we can trade him? Now if he is designated to be a RFA, we can but a 1st or 2nd Rd tender on him. 

[Shepdawg]

(01-17-2018, 09:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't know the exact value, and no one can know but the people that make that deal at that moment.  However, if I were guessing, I'd say to drop 3-5 spots, that should be worth at least their current 1st and 3rd round pick.  

There is such a thing as the draft pick value calculator.  I've seen folks post it on the boards before.

It seems you hit the nail on the head here. If Arizona for example were to decide to jump ahead of Washington, the 12th pick has a value of 1250 points, and the 15th pick is 1050.  The 3rd round pick for Arizona would be #79 and that pick has a value of 195 points.  I could see Arizona seeking a trade to get ahead of Washington.  I just don't believe that a new head coach is going to go with Blaine Gabbert as his starter.  Would it be worth an extra 3rd pick to drop from 12th to 15th?

[SunsetBengal]

(01-17-2018, 10:38 PM)Shepdawg Wrote: It seems you hit the nail on the head here. If Arizona for example were to decide to jump ahead of Washington, the 12th pick has a value of 1250 points, and the 15th pick is 1050.  The 3rd round pick for Arizona would be #79 and that pick has a value of 195 points.  I could see Arizona seeking a trade to get ahead of Washington.  I just don't believe that a new head coach is going to go with Blaine Gabbert as his starter.  Would it be worth an extra 3rd pick to drop from 12th to 15th?

Given the Bengals position of having multiple needs, a reluctance to be big players in free agency, along with the huge number of current players that will be eligible for free agency in the next two years?  Absolutely.

*unless there is a player there at 12 that the Bengals really covet, and don't feel that he'll last to 15.

[BURROWorBUST]

Trading down to get more picks would help our Online. Still, I'm hope we start by drafting Q. Nelson from ND, but we'll be lucky if he falls to us at 12. The Kid looks dominant. GioJoe needs a dominant line. Shift Boling to RG. Get a decent C or T in FA.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-18-2018, 07:25 AM)Shady Wrote: Trading down to get more picks would help our Online. Still,  I'm hope we start by drafting Q. Nelson from ND, but we'll be lucky if he falls to us at 12. The Kid looks dominant. GioJoe needs a dominant line. Shift Boling to RG. Get a decent C or T in FA.

Why would you want to move Boling to the Right side of the OL?  It would seem to me that would be the best spot to put the powerful, young draft pick.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-18-2018, 07:25 AM)Shady Wrote: Trading down to get more picks would help our Online. Still,  I'm hope we start by drafting Q. Nelson from ND, but we'll be lucky if he falls to us at 12. The Kid looks dominant. GioJoe needs a dominant line. Shift Boling to RG. Get a decent C or T in FA.

Quenton Nelson is a mauler in the run game. I think he can fit at RG rather well.

[XenoMorph]

(01-17-2018, 08:54 PM)Shepdawg Wrote: Assuming there are 4, perhaps 5 QB's in this years draft that are supposedly franchise QB type of players, is trading back a real possibility?  The Bengals draft 12th currently.  We would have to assume Cleveland takes a QB, as well as the Giants with the 2nd pick.  Denver picks 5th, and you have to think they'll also be in the QB market unless they get one in FA.  The Jets at 6 gotta be looking QB as well.  Washington picks 13th, and MAY be in the market for a QB depending on what happens with Cousins.  Would another team be willing to jump up ahead of Washington and grab the last "Franchise" QB? Or if their guy falls in the draft, would they be willing to jump up?  Say Arizona for example, they pick 15th.  Palmer is gone and they'll have a new coach.  What would that pick be worth to drop down say 3-7 slots?

What Teams with later picks than us do you see needing a QB?  I mean the jags might need one but how far back do we go?

I think it be depending on how many slots... 3 slots 1st and 3rd.. 7 slots 1st and 2nd

[XenoMorph]

(01-17-2018, 10:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Wouldn't we have to re-sign AJM before we can trade him? Now if he is designated to be a RFA, we can but a 1st or 2nd Rd tender on him. 

yeah and we wont find out if hes UFA or RFA until sometime in feb

if hes UFA you figure he wants to go to a team to be a starter... or at elast have a better chance.

RFA will depend on who will pay for him... If we put a 1st or 2nd round tender on him he will likely be a Bengal next season

[Shepdawg]

(01-18-2018, 02:01 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: What Teams with later picks than us do you see needing a QB?  I mean the jags might need one but how far back do we go?

I think it be depending on how many slots...  3 slots 1st and 3rd..   7 slots  1st and 2nd

I was thinking Arizona in particular.  They pick 15th, and with Palmer retiring they literally have no one.  They could re-sign Blaine Gabbert, but they already know, as does everyone else, he's not the answer.  If 3 of the 4 supposed franchise QB's are gone, and Washington loses Cousins in FA.  It sorta forces Arizona to move ahead of Washington or go with a Blaine Gabbert or equivalent.  If Cousins does leave, that leaves the Redskins with Colt McCoy.  The Chargers, Bills, Jags and Steelers could also be looking at QB but I dont think any of them are in as desperate of a QB situation as The Cardinals, or there is virtually no way we would trade with them. (Pitt) 

[BURROWorBUST]

(01-18-2018, 01:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Why would you want to move Boling to the Right side of the OL?  It would seem to me that would be the best spot to put the powerful, young draft pick.

Either way, I was only thinking that Nelson plays LG. So, we'd want to put a rook at his more natural position. Could be faulty logic. I'm just waiting to see what we do in FA, if anything. 

[SunsetBengal]

(01-18-2018, 09:56 PM)Shady Wrote: Either way, I was only thinking that Nelson plays LG. So, we'd want to put a rook at his more natural position. Could be faulty logic. I'm just waiting to see what we do in FA, if anything. 

Generally, you do want to get your best 5 OL on the field, at the same time.  However, you want to achieve this in the fewest moves to existing personnel as possible.  Boling is established as good to very good at his position at LG, so you put the new bull in on the Right side.  From what I've read of his skillset, that's where you want your punishing, run blocking G, on the Right side.

Heck, even if we were stuck with A. Smith again at RT, having Nelson to pair with him could open some serious running lanes.

[BengalsRocker]

(01-18-2018, 07:25 AM)Shady Wrote: Trading down to get more picks would help our Online. Still,  I'm hope we start by drafting Q. Nelson from ND, but we'll be lucky if he falls to us at 12. The Kid looks dominant. GioJoe needs a dominant line. Shift Boling to RG. Get a decent C or T in FA.

Unless the winds of change are really blowing...  I don't see them forking out the cash for it. 

Not decent ones by NFL standards, Bengals perhaps?  LOL

That's why sliding up to get Price from the second round or down from the 1st would make sense(for Bengals).

I don't see them paying a Center other than Bodine and I sure as hell hope they don't go that route.

RTs and especially LTs are big moola in FA.  I don't see that either.

Shady I hope I'm wrong.  I'm just sayin'.

[Jpoore]

If we trade down the pick is obvious. It's Billy price. He's the number 1 center and the number 3 guard.

[Jpoore]

Also there's quite a few "franchise caliber qbs" in this draft. Most in write some time. Josh rosen, Sam darnold, Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, Mason Rudolph(my personal favorite), Luke falk, and Kirk benkirt.