Paul Alexander goes to bat for Ogbuehi and Fisher on his way out"

[BonnieBengal]

I just realized that by saying this, he is protecting himself for the possibility that new coach has some success with these players. He's going to say "See, I was right. Just had to wait longer."

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-18-2018, 01:46 PM)Whatever Wrote: It's hard for me to get a read on the guy.  Being fair, he finished his bowl game playing on a torn ACL.  That shows a lot of heart and toughness.  But he does have that sort of "don't care" attitude about him.  His draft night reaction could have been due to a number of reasons.  For example, if the Patriots tell you "We're going to pick you if you make it to us," and the Bengals take you a few picks before then, you're likely to be disappointed.  

Whatever the case is, though, both Og and Fisher have had their second chances, and we'd be dumb to give them a 3rd based on what we've seen.

Mhm, I gotcha and that makes sense/is fair.

I agree on the last statement.

(01-18-2018, 02:42 PM)grampahol Wrote: You really have to be a mind reader of epic proportions to watch and figure out exactly what is going on in somebody's mind from a few hundred feet away or watching on TV especially during the heat of a play gone bad.. 
I don't have the first clue what these guys are thinking when they turn around to see Andy getting sacked, but I kind of doubt it's along the lines of "Oh well..I'm getting paid a gazillion bucks so what do I care?"
They know that at the end of the day if they're playing horrible their job becomes less and less secure..
I suspect it's more likely that they feel the pressure and hope to gawd that the next play doesn't go as bad.. Who really knows other than the players themselves? 
At any rate PA is gone and there's a new sheriff in town and if Pollack can turn these guys into top shelf players more power to him. I have my doubts that they're going to just sh*tcan everyone and start from scratch..

On the field, you can't tell if people just, "give up," and all that, as it is hard to see body language with a ton of equipment on you and even harder to see emotions and the like when you have a facemask.

If they were rugby players, I think it would be simpler to ascertain.

[TheUberHuber]

(01-17-2018, 02:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And the people who claimed Og and/or Fisher were bad draft picks also look foolish.

Ok I will bite on the legendary Fred's post.

Please explain how the people who claimed they were bad draft picks look foolish. If anything,  it's the other way around here.

I don't watch much college football anymore so I usually take the draft with a grain of salt but I gotta say drafting a guy with a blown knee then another tackle next was a head scratcher, but I was fine with it because it COULD of worked out.... IF... they were any good.

BUT

They are not....ced is literally one of -If not the- worst tackles the bengals have ever had. Even the most casual fan can notice just how bad he is and notice his lack of effort. fisher is not far behind and It has now cost the team two seasons. 

Given this I find it hard to believe he was even any good in COLLEGE. 

So please tell us how saying drafting one of the worst left tackles we have ever had is in any way foolish...

In any case though it's not the drafting them part, It's the keeping them around part. I have never seen a guy as bad as ced developing into anything good.

i just dont see how you can call someone who predicted a bad pick foolish.  you probably should start listening to those who said it was a bad pick, you might learn something.  :andy:

[Socal Bengals fan]

You guys are nuts. People are actually still trying to justify why Ogbuehi is so bad. My god . Let's move on from that trash already

[Shake n Blake]

(01-18-2018, 05:45 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: You guys are nuts. People are actually still trying to justify why Ogbuehi is so bad.  My god .  Let's move on from that trash already

Heck, we should've moved on after his rookie year. Linemen that look THAT bad don't suddenly become pro-bowlers later.

These days a lot of people just avoid the truth if it's negative, and the truth is that Ogbuehi is a B.U.S.T. A major one at that. He'll go down with the likes of Akili, Klingler, Ki-Jana and Keith Rivers. Sadly, Og's career will probably pale in comparison to Rivers, who was certainly a bust himself. Have I mentioned Og is awful? 

[*Go Cards*]

(01-17-2018, 02:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And the people who claimed Og and/or Fisher were bad draft picks also look foolish.

Still think they were horrible draft picks. 

The Bengals window of opportunity for being a contender was closing with big name FA contracts expiring and needed to play for now. 

Which at that time already had a good OL with Andre Smith, Boling, Zeitler, and Whit. 

Did need to replace Bodine and get a top pass rusher but that is not what happened.

We could have easily tagged Zeitler and signed Whit with a fair offer like he signed as well. 

Thought the whole thing was a slap in Whit's face and believe he took it that way too. 

Put them down as like the Ross pick. Not necessarily saying their talent did not warrant being selected where they went. 

But it just was not in my opinion what the Bengals needed to do at that particular time.  

What was foolish was not drafting OL help for those two early this year. 

[bengalhoel]

(01-18-2018, 03:03 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I just realized that by saying this, he is protecting himself for the possibility that new coach has some success with these players.  He's going to say "See, I was right.  Just had to wait longer."

Yes and this is the problem with this organization as a whole. You see accountability from most NFL franchises but not here.

PA has done what he wanted for so long that he wont even take responsibility for his mistakes. Mike Brown has always protected him. He wont let the local media ask tough questions and the major media outlets dont care, outside of Stephen A. Smith ranting.


Even in his "walking away" he still  claims that he did the right thing in drafting that infamous Tackle Duo that cost us at least 2 seasons and what do we get in return? We get a smug look and a middle finger from a guy who almost single handedly drove the fans out of PBS this year.

If he would have just said " Things didnt go how I wanted.. or " The line didnt play well enough and that is on me... ", then he could have been remembered as a great Bengals coach, but he flushed all that right down the toilet.

[Bengal Dude]

I feel like we can move on from Ced. He sucks at both tackle spots. I'm willing to give Fisher another chance. Hopefully we can get his health issues taken care of. We've seen some flashes of good things from him. He might be able to do something with his heart issues under control. 

[Daddy-O]

(01-17-2018, 01:45 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: Maybe he can talk Jerry Jones into a Travis Frederick and Zack Martin for Ogbuehi , Fisher and Bodine deal!!!

Roger that!  Put your money where your mouth is piano man.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-19-2018, 02:31 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I feel like we can move on from Ced. He sucks at both tackle spots. I'm willing to give Fisher another chance. Hopefully we can get his health issues taken care of. We've seen some flashes of good things from him. He might be able to do something with his heart issues under control. 

I agree with you on Fisher at least showing a little something, out of the two of them.  It's a shame about his injuries, and I hope he recovers to have a good life.  I also think the fact that neither of them has flourished into a least a sound, solid starter has most folks soured on the both of them, as a package.  I'd say many would just rather put the foul stench from that draft in the rear view mirror. 

[bengals67]

(01-18-2018, 02:23 AM)OBX Bengal Wrote: I remember back in September, Dave Lapham said that Paul Alexander teaches the same technique to every player.

Dave went on to say that every player is different and that each player has his own strengths and weaknesses.  He felt that players should be taught the technique that is best suited to the individual player’s strengths.

And  a couple weeks later, Dave Lapham was enthusiastically praising the opposing teams' offensive line coach.

very interesting comments here

Do you make a player fit your cookie cutter theories or do you look at each play as an individual human being and coach them according to their abilities and potential?

I think this applies to all employment and leadership models- not just sports.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-19-2018, 11:31 AM)bengals67 Wrote: very interesting comments here

Do you make a player fit your cookie cutter theories or do you look at each play as an individual human being and coach them according to their abilities and potential?

I think this applies to all employment and leadership models- not just sports.

According to most of the better known coaches that I've ever read or listened to;  It's better to adjust your scheme to the talents and abilities of the players that you have, rather than change the player to fit a scheme.  I tend to agree.

[XenoMorph]

(01-18-2018, 07:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Heck, we should've moved on after his rookie year. Linemen that look THAT bad don't suddenly become pro-bowlers later.

These days a lot of people just avoid the truth if it's negative, and the truth is that Ogbuehi is a B.U.S.T. A major one at that. He'll go down with the likes of Akili, Klingler, Ki-Jana and Keith Rivers. Sadly, Og's career will probably pale in comparison to Rivers, who was certainly a bust himself. Have I mentioned Og is awful? 

ummm.. He barely played at all his rookie year recovering from an known injury when we drafted him

[Lionel Hutz]

Buh-bye Paul. Can't wait to hear Hobson's update about Ogbuehi's MMA training this offseason.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-18-2018, 03:03 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I just realized that by saying this, he is protecting himself for the possibility that new coach has some success with these players.  He's going to say "See, I was right.  Just had to wait longer."

So he's Jeff Fisher.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-19-2018, 11:40 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: According to most of the better known coaches that I've ever read or listened to;  It's better to adjust your scheme to the talents and abilities of the players that you have, rather than change the player to fit a scheme.  I tend to agree.

This is a huge reason the Patriots have been so successful. They change up their scheme constantly based on which players are healthy and what the opposing defense is doing.

[fredtoast]

(01-19-2018, 11:40 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: According to most of the better known coaches that I've ever read or listened to;  It's better to adjust your scheme to the talents and abilities of the players that you have, rather than change the player to fit a scheme.  I tend to agree.

(01-19-2018, 12:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: This is a huge reason the Patriots have been so successful. They change up their scheme constantly based on which players are healthy and what the opposing defense is doing.

Actually you guys are kind of saying two different things.

There is a big difference between changing schemes to fit your talent and changing schemes based on what the other team does.  The Patriots are great because they do both, but you have to accumulate versatile players that can function in different game plans.

[sonofstat]

(01-19-2018, 02:31 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I feel like we can move on from Ced. He sucks at both tackle spots. I'm willing to give Fisher another chance. Hopefully we can get his health issues taken care of. We've seen some flashes of good things from him. He might be able to do something with his heart issues under control. 

Its tricky to talk about Fisher in some ways because it might come across as harsh based on his condition.

I do think we have to be realistic though. For large chunks of this season he was as bad as Ced - somehow he gets more of a pass probably because he was not a rd1 pick , seen as being more aggressive, whatever....

Whether its talent or illness it does not really matter - can we rely on him to be a good starter at OT next year?   

For me its absolutely not and I would resign Andre (as the new Winston, back up OT) and invest time in Boling being the LT.

I think in the draft and maybe F Agency they then go with the best option/draftee they like best irrespective of OL position - if that happens to land them a viable LT then move Boling,  if it gets them a viable OG then relegate Hopkins and keep Boling at LT.

If they resign Smith and plan for Boling at LT if required they don't have to reach for an OT.......now Center on the other hand....

[*ochocincos*]

(01-19-2018, 12:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually you guys are kind of saying two different things.

There is a big difference between changing schemes to fit your talent and changing schemes based on what the other team does.  The Patriots are great because they do both, but you have to accumulate versatile players that can function in different game plans.

I was saying a different thing with the addition of changing based on opposing defense, but I view it as the same for the first part I because your talent with your starters may not match the same as the depth players, and therefore you may need to adjust scheme to play to the strengths of your replacements.

But I can definitely see why my statement could be confusing by how I phrased it and you are absolutely right.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-19-2018, 11:53 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: ummm.. He barely played at all his rookie year recovering from an known injury when we drafted him

ummm.. You know what I meant.

2015: Didn't play
2016: Did play = rookie year
2017: Did play and continued to suck